Chase
Chameleon Enthusiast
Thanks Chris!
Good luck if you do get some. I'm going out of town now, but when I got back was considering getting a pair. If we both do maybe we will get lucky and could switch if we both got one of each
Chase
Trioceros Perreti breeding
- Thread starter Mike Fisher
- Start date
Thanks Chris!
Good luck if you do get some. I'm going out of town now, but when I got back was considering getting a pair. If we both do maybe we will get lucky and could switch if we both got one of each
Chase
Mike Fisher
Established Member
The last one from the second clutch made it out today. I got eight out of nine on this clutch. One egg shrank but never pipped, a fully developed chameleon inside must have been too weak to make it out.
I'm done hatching until summer. Next clutches to hatch will be more K. multituberculata and a new one for me, K. tavetana as well as K. uluguruensis. Expecting more T. perreti eggs to be laid before then too.
I'm done hatching until summer. Next clutches to hatch will be more K. multituberculata and a new one for me, K. tavetana as well as K. uluguruensis. Expecting more T. perreti eggs to be laid before then too.
Chase
Chameleon Enthusiast
Awesome, Mike! Sorry to hear about the one that didn't make it.
How long are you going to wait until you breed the new perreti?
Chase
Mike Fisher
Established Member
No big deal, the female that laid these had a lot of health problems, so I am really surprised I got as many as I did.
I won't do much with the new ones I just got until they've been through quarantine and treated for parasites. And I also have to determine if they are gravid already.
Chase
Chameleon Enthusiast
No big deal, the female that laid these had a lot of health problems, so I am really surprised I got as many as I did.
I won't do much with the new ones I just got until they've been through quarantine and treated for parasites. And I also have to determine if they are gravid already.
Oh ok, well I hope they acclimate well for you!
Chase
pamnsam94
Established Member
I'm a little surprised that no one has asked how she was diagnosed as being deficient in vitamins A and D3. Did a vet measure the blood levels of those two vitamins and find them to be lacking? Just curious.
Chase
Chameleon Enthusiast
Well considering she is a fresh import, the likelihood of getting proper nutrition recently is slim to none. Also the causes of edema are a lack or too much vitamin A/D. Most of the time, just correcting your supplement schedule fixes the problem.
Chase
pamnsam94
Established Member
Many things can cause edema, usually a symptom of organ (liver and/or kidney) malfunction. The general consensus of most keepers' experiences is that most often, edema is the result of too much D3, followed perhaps by too much preformed vitamin A, and in recent imports especially, dehydration. I was just wondering how the determination was made that the female did indeed have hypovitaminosis A and D3. Unless all other variables are completely ruled out (something very difficult if not impossible to do), my understanding was that the only way to positively confirm either hypovitaminosis or hypervitaminosi A and D3 was to measure the blood levels against a "standard" of what is believed to normal levels in that particular species (assuming that a large enough sample size of blood levels were measured for that species). So, I'm wondering whether the vitamin levels were measured for that particular female, or if it's an educated guess or speculation (something I've done many times myself when trying to figure out why an edema in a particular animal appears or disappears). Might the disappearance of the edema in the female been solely coincidental when the vitamins were given. Just a thought. That's why I really want to know if the female's blood was tested. My understanding is that hypervitaminosis A in chameleons is rarely found by vets in chameleons (part of the reason I'm in the camp that believes overdose of D3 is much more often the cause). Of course, the balance between those two fat soluble vitamins also plays a role. Perhaps the supplement that Mike used has a good ratio of those two vitamins that "play" off of each other, and that is why the edema disappeared. Mike, what supplement did you use when the edema went away and can you give us their concentration in the product in international units? Knowing whether the female's blood was tested and the concentrations of preformed A and D3 would be very helpful I think to anyone reading this thread. Thanks
Perry
Mike Fisher
Established Member
Yes, vet blood test and actually all her vitamin levels were low. Also, the specimen in question was not the recent import, but a captive bred. She was raised without any vitamin or mineral supplementation by previous owner. They believed that the UVB lights and gut loaded cricket were enough.
So the lab results were no surprise. I don't know what standard they were compared to.
Mike Fisher
Established Member
It was just Repashy Calcium Plus. Her edema was noticeably better in a day, and almost totally gone in two days. All eggs from the clutch inside her hatched without problems.
pamnsam94
Established Member
That's good info. Thanks Mike. I've got both Repashy's regular Calcium Plus and Repashy's Calcium Plus LoD formula. Regular Calcium Plus has 200,000 IU/lb of vitamin A and 20,000 IU/lb of vitamin D (a 10:1 ratio of vitamin A to D3) while the low D3 formula has 80,000 IU/lb of vitamin A and 8,000 IU/lb of vitamin D (still a 10:1 ratio) for those who are interested.
Perry
Perry
pamnsam94
Established Member
What is your regular schedule? Did you discontinue Repashy's Calcium Plus entirely and go back to your own milled vitamins and minerals exclusively?
Perry
Mike Fisher
Established Member
Every time I tried to wean her off the calcium plus, the edema came back!
I'd put her back on, and it would get better, sometimes within hours. I think she had organ damage. She recently passed away. Seemed fine one night, dead on the floor the next. I did my best with her and her offspring live on.
