Pepper has a a bump on his face :(

serenitystarlite

serenitystarlite

Established Member
I noticed today that Pepper, my Jackson's chameleon, has a bump on his face and possibly something wrong with his arm :(

I somehow just managed to someone at the vet before they closed and he has an appointment tomorrow morning. I went through this same thing with my Senegal chameleon, Kami and the vet I took her to didn't know what they were doing. The vet I use now seems to know a bit more. I wanted to fill this out the help form anyway so I know exactly what to do when I take him to the vet tomorrow. I looked in his mouth and I can't see anything. What's the best way for the vet to clean out this bump?

First, here are some pictures:

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here's his other side:

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Chameleon Info:

* Your Chameleon - Male Jackson's chameleon, about 1 year old
* Handling - every few days because he always wants to come out of his cage and tries to climb on me when I open his cage
* Feeding - He eats crickets, butterworms, dubia, and superworms. I keep food in his cup all the time. He eats a few times a week. I gutload with kale, oranges, and carrots.
* Supplements - Zoomed calcium without d3 every feeding, Rep-cal with d3 once a month, and Rep-cal Herptivite once a month.
* Watering - I mist every morning and evening with a garden sprayer from Lowe's. Sometimes during the day if I'm home. He also has a dripper and I see him drink regularly.
* Fecal Description - Fecal is normal. He hasn't been tested for parasites, but I will try tomorrow if he poops between now and then.
* History - I noticed that he had some gunk in the side of his mouth that I cleaned out with a q-tip a few times in the past couple weeks. It was the same side where the bump is now. I didn't think much of it and I have been checking it regularly. The bump is very recent and I haven't cleaned out that area in about a week, so I'm hoping I didn't cause it :(

Cage Info:

* Cage Type - Screen cage. 16in x 16in x 30in.
* Lighting - 15in 5.0 repti-sun linear bulb and 25 watt household bulb for basking. The lights come on at 8am and go off at 8pm on a timer.
* Temperature - I have a digital thermometer. Bottom of the cage is usually low to mid 70s, basking stop is low 80s. Overnight it goes down into the upper 60s.
* Humidity - Humidity stays around 65-75%. I have a humidifier and digital hygrometer.
* Plants - He has a live Dragon Tree and and a live pothos along with some fake vines
* Placement - Cage is in my bedroom which is low traffic. It's not near any vents or windows and is 3ft up off the floor, so top of the cage is 5 1/2ft
* Location - Where are you geographically located? Pittsburgh, PA

I love this little guy so much, he's so sweet. Help :(
 
he is gorgeous!! i want him. and unless i am blind, i cannot see a bump on his face :confused: but his arm does look a little swollen. is the vet a plan?
 
It looks like it could be a break in the bone in the arm. Has he had any bad falls lately??

The swelling could be an infection in the gland in the corner of his mouth. If it is it needs to be cleaned out properly, a culture and sensitivity test done and the chameleon put on a course of antibiotics.
 
He is beautiful, that's for sure. I see what you are talking about, his left (to him) cheek is a bit pouchy... even the bottom lip below looks a tad swollen. I'm going to guess there's an injury inside the mouth. Possibly damaged by a feeder? (they don't go down without a fight!)

Is it possible that the "gunk" was pus?

This sort of seems like a vet thing to me because I suspect antibiotics are going to be involved, but I'm not at all an expert. Hopefully someone who's dealt with this will chime in.

He's sure a looker though!

**edited to add**

Ah....kinyonga got here while I was typing.
 
Thanks for the kind words, he is as sweet as he is cute. And the way he was looking at me when I was taking his pictures was so sad, like "Mommy I think I has to go to the doctor" :(

I have a vet appointment scheduled for tomorrow morning at 10:30am. With his arm, I was scared that maybe he was developing MBD but the other arm looks normal, or so I think. Jacksons' limbs are bumpier than other chams. I don't remember him falling, but it may have happened when I was at work.

As for the bump, what's the best way to clean it out if the vet can't see anything on the inside of the mouth? I really don't want to go through the same thing I went though with Kami.
 
It looks like the chameleon is suffering MBD in the legs... Maybe the chameleons teeth were weak and suffered a break? How old is your UVB lamp? Is there any clear plastic between the lamp and the chameleon? How high is the lamp from the basking area, does he bask under it daily?

The puss or goo or whatever you might have scraped out of the chams mouth is most likely an infection. I recently had an issue with this in my older melleri Henry. I noticed his lip was swelled up. I managed to get him to open his mouth (very hard to do with him since he is large and in charge!). Once his mouth was open I could see some goo stuff on either side of his teeth and a portion of his teeth were missing. It took my GF and I to wrap him up in a towel and keep him still while we used a rubber spatula (with the floppy sides cut off) tohold his mouth open while my GF scraped out the pasty gunk around his teeth. We found that there was a gap between the teeth and his gums.... we got all the paste out and then packed it with silvidine. We set him loose in his free range and turned out the lights so he could get some rest and relax from the stress of what we put him through. For a couple of days we would pack the infected area with silvidine and things seem back to normal.

I was told to rinse the area with saline solution and pack with silvidine daily.... after things seemed to go back to normal we stopped putting him through the stressful ordeal.

Henry is an old WC melleri who has gone through a lot and stresses easily. He even gets super stressed at the site of young melleri 1/10 his size. Think of mice and elephants.

And follow what Kinyonga said. :)
 
kinyonga said:
IMHO you need a vet to clean it out properly.

You might like to read this...
http://www.kirkmanareavet.com/Temporal Gland Jackson.html

The leg could very well be MBD...but you need a vet to tell you for sure. Since you are giving it calcium and providing UVB its hard to know. As was already asked, is there any glass or plastic between the UVB light and the chameleon?
Click to expand...

I agree! A vet is in order, was just sorta sharing my personal experience. :eek:
 
The UVB light has no glass on it. I've posted my husbandry several times and was told it was fine. The bulb needs replaced (I have an order in to LLLreptile that I was waiting for payday to send), but it is just now about 6 months old, so I don't think it's the light. He's kind of a random eater, maybe it's my supplements? I read to give Jacksons less supplements, so I didn't think it was much of an issue if he didn't eat everyday but maybe that was the issue. I have a bottle of reptaid, should I give him that or give him whatever antibiotics the vet prescribes?

I'll let you know what the vet says.
 
IMHO...unless you have experience with cleaning out infections in chameleons, you should take it to the vet and have the vet clean it out properly, have the vet do a culture and sensitivity test on it so he will be able to put it on the proper antibiotic. While its there the vet can also do calcium testing to see if the bone broke because of that or not.

If the area is not cleaned out properly it will more than likely spread...and sometimes even when it appears to have been cleaned out properly it can come back or spread.
 
I just got back from the vet. She said she doesn't think it's MBD because only the one leg is bent and that it's a fracture that is already healed. His other limbs are straight but he has stretchy skin that kinda hangs weird. Is that normal for Jacksons? I've seen pictures of other ones and their legs seem bumpy in the same way. She felt his bones and said they would be rubbery if it was MBD and the only one that felt wrong was the on with the fracture. She didn't want to do x-rays because it's already healed and would just be a waste of money. Maybe his light is bad? I am switching it out right now, but I'm scared that maybe the one I have is old, so I will replace it with brand new one when I put my LLLreptile order in next week. Should I change his supplements in any way or give him extra calcium?

She said that the lump on his face is only swelling and that there is nothing to clean out or culture right now. The swelling is behind his teeth and they are all intact. She tried to drain it the lump and nothing came out. She gave me an oral rinse to see if that clears it up. If not and it gets bigger, I'll bring him back to get it lanced and cultured but she said there isn't anything to do a culture on right now and didn't want to make an incision and cause another opening to get infected more. She gave me Dentahex oral rinse (Chlorhexidrine .12% with Zinc) and said to flush out his mouth twice a day.

I also have Rotguard and Reptaid. Should I try either of these?
 
If I lived close I'd test your lamp with my UVB meter.... If you think it's bad you could contact zoo med and they could test it for you as well. I had issues with my T12 tubes not reading right and they asked me to send them in for further testing.

If they find the lamp isn't any good they would most likely send you a new one if the run time on the lamp is low.... But I think you said the lamp is 6 months old? Sounds about right for the time frame of replacement.
 
serenitystarlite said:
His other limbs are straight but he has stretchy skin that kinda hangs weird. Should I change his supplements in any way or give him extra calcium?

She tried to drain it the lump and nothing came out. She gave me an oral rinse to see if that clears it up. If not and it gets bigger, I'll bring him back to get it lanced and cultured but she said there isn't anything to do a culture on right now and didn't want to make an incision and cause another opening to get infected more. She gave me Dentahex oral rinse (Chlorhexidrine .12% with Zinc) and said to flush out his mouth twice a day.

I also have Rotguard and Reptaid. Should I try either of these?
Click to expand...

If your cham's skin is hanging loosely in folds possibly that's a sign of dehydration. When you gently pull on a fold of skin on a properly hydrated cham it should snap back flat. If you can get him outdoors for some true sun basking for even a little bit that will help until your new light arrives.

The lump is probably an abscess. The type of puss herps tend to form is not liquid, but more like cheese. I am not surprised the vet couldn't drain anything out of the lump (and I'm a bit surprised she wouldn't know this). The sure way to clean the lump out is a combination of systemic antibiotics and possibly opening the lump itself and clearing out the cheesy stuff. I don't think anything you put on it or in his mouth will reach the infection unless there is an open wound connected to it. When she looked at his mouth did she check the temporal gland? It is right at the corner of his mouth and they can get infected. The infection can spread to the tissues in the cheek; right where the lump seems to be. If she really doesn't want to open the lump up you can do the course of antibiotics first to see if that takes care of it, but realize it may not. These abscesses to tend to recurr.

I don't think the Rotguard will do much. The Reptaid might help as a supplement if he goes off food. These infections have got to be painful so often the cham will refuse to eat or drink because of that.
 
Carlton said:
If your cham's skin is hanging loosely in folds possibly that's a sign of dehydration. When you gently pull on a fold of skin on a properly hydrated cham it should snap back flat. If you can get him outdoors for some true sun basking for even a little bit that will help until your new light arrives.

The lump is probably an abscess. The type of puss herps tend to form is not liquid, but more like cheese. I am not surprised the vet couldn't drain anything out of the lump (and I'm a bit surprised she wouldn't know this). The sure way to clean the lump out is a combination of systemic antibiotics and possibly opening the lump itself and clearing out the cheesy stuff. I don't think anything you put on it or in his mouth will reach the infection unless there is an open wound connected to it. When she looked at his mouth did she check the temporal gland? It is right at the corner of his mouth and they can get infected. The infection can spread to the tissues in the cheek; right where the lump seems to be. If she really doesn't want to open the lump up you can do the course of antibiotics first to see if that takes care of it, but realize it may not. These abscesses to tend to recurr.

I don't think the Rotguard will do much. The Reptaid might help as a supplement if he goes off food. These infections have got to be painful so often the cham will refuse to eat or drink because of that.
Click to expand...

I told her that it wouldn't be liquid, it would be harder puss in the lump and she still said it's just inflammation right now. He ate normally yesterday even with his mouth like that so I'm not worried yet. If it still looks like this next week, I'm taking him back and will make her cut it open. But what if she does that and it's just inflammation and nothing to clean out? There aren't any actual chameleon vets in Pittsburgh, so there's not much really I can do as far as finding a vet who knows what they're doing. I followed exactly what everyone on this forum said to do and this still happened. It's very frustrating :(

I can tell her "check the temporal gland" if I take him back next week and then what? What do I tell her to check? If that's what's infected, then what? Should I call them tomorrow and get antibiotics for him? I don't know what to do :(
 
There's really no chameleon vets is Pittsburgh? That's surprising since it's a bigger city. I know there's some vets around here that don't advertise knowing about chameleons or reptiles just because it's not in very high demand. Maybe trying calling around and asking specifically...assuming you havn't already done that =)

I hope everything turns out ok with him, he's gorgeous and I can tell you love him a lot.
 
serenitystarlite said:
But what if she does that and it's just inflammation and nothing to clean out? I followed exactly what everyone on this forum said to do and this still happened. It's very frustrating :(

I can tell her "check the temporal gland" if I take him back next week and then what? What do I tell her to check? If that's what's infected, then what? Should I call them tomorrow and get antibiotics for him? I don't know what to do :(
Click to expand...

Well, if there is an infection brewing ("just inflammation") then oral antibiotics could do the trick. Temporal gland infections are pretty common in jackson's, so it might not be anything you did or didn't do. If the temporal gland is in fact the source of the infection (it could have started from a cut on the gum from a cricket leg, a feeder bite, a bit of shell or foreign matter getting stuck in on the gland's surface, or even a lowered immune system response from stress), she may be able to see that the gland is red, swollen, or shows a small injury when he opens his mouth. Another thing I've read is that making your gutloads a bit higher in vitamin C can help prevent them from starting. Strengthens the immune system and probably changes the pH of the food or saliva making it less easy for bacteria to grow. I use fresh oranges in my wet gutloads routinely. It may help. If there is an open cut on the gumline the oral anti infective rinse may help it heal.
 
IMHO...if the gland has not been cleaned and flushed out and the exudate tested to see what the bacteria is and the appropriate antibiotic given to the chameleon things will only get worse. Giving the antibiotic alone will not likely penetrate the exudate and the infection will still be there. Its only my opinion though. (There used to be a site showing and explaining this on the net but I can't locate it now..I believe it was Dr. Alfonso who had the site.)

Best of luck!
 
Please read this page, which details why it is extremely important to locate a qualified vet for reptiles:
http://www.anapsid.org/vets/index.html
Note that while veterinarians spend quite a few years in school, only about a week is devoted to "exotic species", like reptiles.
It isn't a good sign when you have to tell your vet about what to expect to find in your cham's infection.
I'm sure she wants to help, but lacks sufficient reptile training and education.

Here is Melissa Kaplan's vet listing, which includes Pittsburg reptile vets:
http://www.anapsid.org/vets/penn.html

I don't know which, if either, of the 2 Pittsburg vets listed on this site has cham experience, but both do treat reptiles:
http://www.herpvetconnection.com/penn.shtml

As for links to Dr Alfonso (renowned reptile vet in Florida), here is one, which details a number of cham health problems:
http://www.kirkmanareavet.com/links.html
 
I am not good at describing things in a hurry, so when I quickly typed "tried to drain," I meant "looked at his face and determined that there is nothing to clean out, there is only inflammation." When I told her that it wouldn't be liquid, she said it was only inflammation. I would hope a vet could tell the difference. She said didn't want to cut into his face and cause another opening to get infected more unless it was necessary and said to bring him back if it got bigger. Maybe she doesn't know what she's doing. It was what I could do in the span of the 5 minutes I had to call the vet before they closed. I was surprised that I actually got an appointment, as late as it was.

I'll try calling some of those other vets tomorrow or whenever they are open. The Castle Shannon Vet is open 24 hours but the vet that had chameleon experience is not there anymore. I took my first chameleon there 15 years ago and there was a really good vet who has retired. I just called them to confirm and they have no one on staff that has chameleon experience. Last year when Kami was sick, I called a ton of vets in Pittsburgh and none of them see exotics, much less have chameleon experience. Otherwise that is the vet I would have gone to. I'll go down through these lists and try again tomorrow or whenever they are open. I know you are trying to help and I appreciate the lists of vets, but they are the same lists that I went through last year. Maybe one has someone new that knows what they're doing. All I can do is try again.

Otherwise I can print out this information and take it to the vet I'm using now and see what she can do.
 
I thought that the gland could be cleaned out through the opening to the gland and there would be no cut needed...but even so, the chameleon would need to be antibiotics.
 
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