Hi, my name is Luke and I've been browsing the forum for a while but this is my first post. I have a male Jackson's chameleon that I bought from petsmart about a year ago. I know that's not the best place to get a chameleon but anyway, he had been doing pretty good until recently. A little less than a month and a half ago I noticed his mouth getting swollen. I watched it for several days and as it got worse I decided I needed to call a vet. So, I was recommended to this vet that sees reptiles. My appointment was about 3 weeks ago and after the assistant took his weight and I filled out some papers, the doctor came in a took a look him, but he only looked at him for a few seconds,then used one of his tools to rip the scab out of his mouth. He put some ointment in his mouth and showed me how to do it when I got my tube of ointment. He acted very confident about the whole thing, as if he knew this would fix the problem. So that was basically it, I got my ointment,paid the receptionist and left with my chameleon. So I started the treatment and at first it seemed as if it may be working, but now I know it's not working, at least not good enough, and the tube of ointment is almost all gone. So now I need to schedule another visit to the vet. My question is, should I go back to the same doctor, or try to find someone else? Wasn't he supposed to take a blood test to see the susceptibility of it? I mean, I pay 55 dollars just for the exam which literally lasted just a few seconds. He then rips the scab out and gives some ointment. It seemed all very half-assed. But I trusted him at the time and now I'm not sure. Is that what is to be expected?
Is my vet trustworthy?
- Thread starter lvke33
- Start date
xanthoman
Avid Member
its always best to seek a vet with which a cham owner has had a positive experience with but short of being able to determine that, try to find one that is an arav vet. reptile& amphibian vets http://web.archive.org/web/20040611201113/www.arav.org/USMembers.htm
draetish
Avid Member
I did a little research online and here's what I found. Your vet may have tried the topical first, before doing injections. IMO, that is good. I would go back to the same vet with some printed information. This article mentions poor husbandry and nose rubbing. Re-check your temps and tell the vet about any behavior that could have lead to this. It would be a good time to answer the "how to ask for help" questions so others can point out something you may have missed. Good Luck!
Donna
Inflammation of the tissues in the mouth is defined as infectious stomatitis, more commonly known as mouth rot. The initiating cause may be stress or trauma, both of which lead to an infection of the oral cavity by opportunistic pathogenic bacteria. Common types of bacteria isolated from this area include Pseudomonas, Aeromonas, Klebsiella, and Salmonella. In some cases, mycobacteria, and some species of fungi, or some viruses may also become involved.
Stress may be induced in a variety of ways. Poor husbandry practices especially a cold captive environment and poor diet will suppress the animal’s immune system allowing the reptile to be at risk of secondary opportunistic infections. Trauma, another frequently encountered cause of mouth rot, occurs when captive reptiles continuously rub their noses on an enclosure surface. Once superficial abrasions occur on the skin, the door is left open for secondary infections.
Early clinical signs of disease may be seen as a lack of appetite and excessive salivation. As the disease progresses, the reptile will develop swollen and cracked gums. The gums may become so friable (easily crumbles) that they bleed. When the condition deteriorates, caseous (white cheesy material) may develop along the dental arcade. The condition may progress to the point that teeth become loose. The oral cavity may be observed by using a kitchen spatula to gently pry open the mouth. Severe infections may spread causing osteomyelitis (bone infection), pneumonia, sinusitis (infection of the sinuses), and ocular (eye) inflammation.
Mild cases may simply be corrected by merely warming the animal’s environment to its optimal temperature, thereby encouraging top performance from the animal’s immune system. In superficial infections, topical antibiotic, antiseptic creams and solutions may be effective. With moderate to severe infections, it is best to obtain bacterial culture and sensitivity testing. Through culture and sensitivity testing, the type of bacteria infecting the area and the best antibiotic to control the infection will be determined. Systemic medications may then be administered to combat the infection, most commonly aminoglycosides such as gentamycin. Medication is typically given by injection especially since the administration of oral medication may further damage the inflamed tissues. Deep abscesses may need to be surgically drained. Supportive care including force feeding and fluids should be administered in anorexic (not eating) individuals.
Donna
Inflammation of the tissues in the mouth is defined as infectious stomatitis, more commonly known as mouth rot. The initiating cause may be stress or trauma, both of which lead to an infection of the oral cavity by opportunistic pathogenic bacteria. Common types of bacteria isolated from this area include Pseudomonas, Aeromonas, Klebsiella, and Salmonella. In some cases, mycobacteria, and some species of fungi, or some viruses may also become involved.
Stress may be induced in a variety of ways. Poor husbandry practices especially a cold captive environment and poor diet will suppress the animal’s immune system allowing the reptile to be at risk of secondary opportunistic infections. Trauma, another frequently encountered cause of mouth rot, occurs when captive reptiles continuously rub their noses on an enclosure surface. Once superficial abrasions occur on the skin, the door is left open for secondary infections.
Early clinical signs of disease may be seen as a lack of appetite and excessive salivation. As the disease progresses, the reptile will develop swollen and cracked gums. The gums may become so friable (easily crumbles) that they bleed. When the condition deteriorates, caseous (white cheesy material) may develop along the dental arcade. The condition may progress to the point that teeth become loose. The oral cavity may be observed by using a kitchen spatula to gently pry open the mouth. Severe infections may spread causing osteomyelitis (bone infection), pneumonia, sinusitis (infection of the sinuses), and ocular (eye) inflammation.
Mild cases may simply be corrected by merely warming the animal’s environment to its optimal temperature, thereby encouraging top performance from the animal’s immune system. In superficial infections, topical antibiotic, antiseptic creams and solutions may be effective. With moderate to severe infections, it is best to obtain bacterial culture and sensitivity testing. Through culture and sensitivity testing, the type of bacteria infecting the area and the best antibiotic to control the infection will be determined. Systemic medications may then be administered to combat the infection, most commonly aminoglycosides such as gentamycin. Medication is typically given by injection especially since the administration of oral medication may further damage the inflamed tissues. Deep abscesses may need to be surgically drained. Supportive care including force feeding and fluids should be administered in anorexic (not eating) individuals.
chamlover
New Member
What did the vet say it was? What kind of "ointment" was he given? Frequency and length of time?
There are many vets that will occasionally see a reptile or 2. That doesn't make them a "chameleon" expert. Since i've been into reptiles, i've seen 5 vets. I still use 2 of them, for different species. You need to ask more questions BEFORE you go in. Like how many chams has he seen in the last year? etc. Don't take anyones word for it that he knows about them. I've found that most of the people on this forum generally know more about cham care than most vets. I'm not saying don't use one, you must. But you need to ask questions here first. Tell us what the symtoms are, duration, as well as your husbandry practices. Then ask what to expect from the vet when you get there. If you need to take a list of questions with you when you go, then do it. You sometimes need to be a little more aggressive when it comes to chams in particular.
Tell everyone where you're from on the forum and maybe someone on here can tell you of a good cham vet that they've had exp with. Good luck.
There are many vets that will occasionally see a reptile or 2. That doesn't make them a "chameleon" expert. Since i've been into reptiles, i've seen 5 vets. I still use 2 of them, for different species. You need to ask more questions BEFORE you go in. Like how many chams has he seen in the last year? etc. Don't take anyones word for it that he knows about them. I've found that most of the people on this forum generally know more about cham care than most vets. I'm not saying don't use one, you must. But you need to ask questions here first. Tell us what the symtoms are, duration, as well as your husbandry practices. Then ask what to expect from the vet when you get there. If you need to take a list of questions with you when you go, then do it. You sometimes need to be a little more aggressive when it comes to chams in particular.
Tell everyone where you're from on the forum and maybe someone on here can tell you of a good cham vet that they've had exp with. Good luck.
thanks for trying to help you guys. To try and answer your questions. Something was said about the heat maybe being too low, I doubt that, if anything its been to high( in the lower to mid 80's lately at the hottest area) lower to mid 70's in other areas. It probably never gets below 70 degrees in my room during the night. Also suggested were poor diet or the infection caused by too much stress. I don't think it would be either, he's never been stressed except maybe when I first got him. He would always come out of his cage without any sort of fight,except for recently now that I've been applying the ointment. I think my diet is good,too. I feed mostly crickets and B. dubia with occasionally superworms. All my feeders are gutloaded with a pre-formulated diet that claims to be complete. I also dust with Reptivite with D-3 about every other feeding. I hadn't noticed any rubbing of the nose or mouth as someone had suggested, except for maybe once or twice during a shed. Someone had mentioned there may be inflammation of the eye. There is, and he also has a big lump on the inside of his mouth. It seems as if the infection is now spreading to the other side of his mouth! Needless to say I am worried and I won't be able to go the the vet until Friday at the earliest. Someone asked what the vet said about it and what kind of ointment was given. He said he thought it most likely started from a sharp part of the cricket leg causing a cut. the ointment given is called Vetrachloracin Cloramphenicol 1%. Also, he told me to apply it once a day, but when the lady gave me the prescription it said to apply twice a day, so I followed that instead. Any further advice would be appreciated and I'll keep you guys updated about my next visit.
Elizadolots
New Member
You might want to check the link Xanthoman gave you to see if your vet is listed.
draetish
Avid Member
I also dust with Reptivite with D-3 about every other feeding.
This is too much D3 and you didn't mention, calcium.
Someone had mentioned there may be inflammation of the eye. There is, and he also has a big lump on the inside of his mouth. It seems as if the infection is now spreading to the other side of his mouth!
The inflammation of the eye could be Respitatory Infection.
He said he thought it most likely started from a sharp part of the cricket leg causing a cut.
You hear alot of people say that's what their vet said. It's not likely unless it is a huge cricket on steriods.
Bottom line, google as much info as you can on the symptoms and treatments. Also google the side effects of such medication for your type of cham. Again, I can't stress how important the info on the "how to ask for help" is. If you can post pictures of your cham and enclosure, that would too. Otherwise, all you can really expect is "guesses" and that will not help.
Texas Panther Man
New Member
You need to be dustin with calcium WITHOUT d3 about 3 times a week for an adult. For jacksons adult i would dust 2 times a week. You are giving him far to much vit a. and jacksons are very susceptible to over supplementing. You need to dust w/d3 twice a month. Jmo but i find it hard to believe a crick leg caused the mouth infection. I've fed numerous chams and crick legs are not that sharp. If that was the case we would all be having chams w mouth infecs all the time.
Texas Panther Man
New Member
Wow draet you type quicker than me good call.
draetish
Avid Member
Elizadolots
New Member
Just for clarity, Reptivite does contain calcium. Some chameleons are advised to get less of the collection of vitamins and minerals Reptivite contains (and, it is possible to get too much of some vitamins).
skyedog
Established Member
The d3 every other feeding is overdoing it. Lightly dusting calcium without d3, and only using the d3 one or two times a month may be better.
One of my vets gave me the same medication for one of my dogs a while back. I had to apply that ointment to the dog every couple of hours day and night for a few days. I know the chams are different, but i just remember having to get up all night long to keep doing that.
Edit - wow I type slower than all of you
One of my vets gave me the same medication for one of my dogs a while back. I had to apply that ointment to the dog every couple of hours day and night for a few days. I know the chams are different, but i just remember having to get up all night long to keep doing that.
Edit - wow I type slower than all of you
draetish
Avid Member
Yes, but as you mentioned, it contains vitamins which are not recommended for use as plain calcium w/o D3.
Yea, I didn't think it was because of a cricket leg, either. I feel very disappointed in myself that I've been going overboard on the D-3, I should have known better. I would like to mention though that i used a different supplement for most of my time with him. This was more recently. So, maybe its oversupplementing that caused these problems? I'll try to get pics of him and his enclosure but at this point it just seems pointless, I need to get him to the vet.
draetish
Avid Member
Now is not the time to beat yourself up. The pics of your cham and enclosure are very important so others can give you some insight and bring up points that may be viable when you go to the vet. We've all made mistakes and it's part of learning. I vowed to myself that I would learn as much as I can about my species of cham so I would know if the vet knew what he was doing. There are differences between a Jackson and Veiled or Melleri and Panther. They all have slightly different but important husbandry needs and any little "off" part of that, could be the culprit.
Elizadolots
New Member
It was just in case he was confused by being asked about calcium when he knew he was giving a supplement with calcium If his experience with buying the chameleon was anything like mine he was handed a bottle of Reptivite with D3 and told to use it every day and that it was loaded with goodness and nothing at all that could harm the animal.
It's a bit of a surprise when you discover that you should also have calcium without D3 and possibly calcium with D3 if your chameleon is a type that is sensitive to supplements.
Ok, here are the pictures of my chameleon. hopefully it loads correctly. As you can see there's infection on both sides. To be honest it looks much worse in person than the pics. Should I go back to the same vet? I have seen that he's not on the reptile vet website list, and everywhere else is too far away ( don't have my own vehicle). It almost seems that theres nothing that can be done for him. What should I do?
Attachments
draetish
Avid Member
I went back to the beginning of the thread and it looks like mouth rot. By the way you described the vet, I don't think I would go back and try to find another one. He apparently has no feelings for lizards. Print this info and take it with you. I looks like the infection is too far along for just ointment.
Early clinical signs of disease may be seen as a lack of appetite and excessive salivation. As the disease progresses, the reptile will develop swollen and cracked gums. The gums may become so friable (easily crumbles) that they bleed. When the condition deteriorates, caseous (white cheesy material) may develop along the dental arcade. The condition may progress to the point that teeth become loose. The oral cavity may be observed by using a kitchen spatula to gently pry open the mouth. Severe infections may spread causing osteomyelitis (bone infection), pneumonia, sinusitis (infection of the sinuses), and ocular (eye) inflammation.
Mild cases may simply be corrected by merely warming the animal’s environment to its optimal temperature, thereby encouraging top performance from the animal’s immune system. In superficial infections, topical antibiotic, antiseptic creams and solutions may be effective. With moderate to severe infections, it is best to obtain bacterial culture and sensitivity testing. Through culture and sensitivity testing, the type of bacteria infecting the area and the best antibiotic to control the infection will be determined. Systemic medications may then be administered to combat the infection, most commonly aminoglycosides such as gentamycin. Medication is typically given by injection especially since the administration of oral medication may further damage the inflamed tissues. Deep abscesses may need to be surgically drained. Supportive care including force feeding and fluids should be administered in anorexic (not eating) individuals.
Early clinical signs of disease may be seen as a lack of appetite and excessive salivation. As the disease progresses, the reptile will develop swollen and cracked gums. The gums may become so friable (easily crumbles) that they bleed. When the condition deteriorates, caseous (white cheesy material) may develop along the dental arcade. The condition may progress to the point that teeth become loose. The oral cavity may be observed by using a kitchen spatula to gently pry open the mouth. Severe infections may spread causing osteomyelitis (bone infection), pneumonia, sinusitis (infection of the sinuses), and ocular (eye) inflammation.
Mild cases may simply be corrected by merely warming the animal’s environment to its optimal temperature, thereby encouraging top performance from the animal’s immune system. In superficial infections, topical antibiotic, antiseptic creams and solutions may be effective. With moderate to severe infections, it is best to obtain bacterial culture and sensitivity testing. Through culture and sensitivity testing, the type of bacteria infecting the area and the best antibiotic to control the infection will be determined. Systemic medications may then be administered to combat the infection, most commonly aminoglycosides such as gentamycin. Medication is typically given by injection especially since the administration of oral medication may further damage the inflamed tissues. Deep abscesses may need to be surgically drained. Supportive care including force feeding and fluids should be administered in anorexic (not eating) individuals.
Texas Panther Man
New Member
AFter looking at those pics he prob needs an injection of antibiotics. Im w/Draet i don't think cream is going to help in this case. But at least he looks like hes in good shape otherwise. I would make sure and hydrate him as much as possible til hes off all his meds. Lots of warm showers will help him stay hydrated. Good luck on finding a new vet that is always nerve wracking.
