Young Veiled Going Downhill

cd1236

New Member
Hello,

I have a young (approximately 3-4 month) veiled that appears to be rapidly declining. The stats are as follows:

Chameleon was purchased at Petco (strike one).

The chameleon is housed in a 30" x 30" x 48" outdoor enclosure in Southern California. I've had her for a little more than five weeks. The enclosure is bioactive and is planted with hibiscus, pothos and schefflera. Feeders (small dubias, BSFL, crickets and occasional silks or hornworms are dusted with Earth Pro-A. I do not dust with any D3 due to the outdoor enclosure. The weather since I've had her has been good, with only a couple of days of what I would call high temps (90 degrees). On those days she is brought inside. The average daytime humidity in the enclosure is probably about 30-40, and at night it averages a little over 80. It is beginning to get a bit chilly at night, so at nights I move her into the garage where it doesn't get lower than low to mid 60's. I run a dripper somewhat frequently but have never seen her drink off of leaves or anything like that.

The problem: Last week, she began exhibiting signs of a possible respiratory infection (snout up in the air, gulping open mouth occasionally). She was also not eating from what I could tell. I arranged for a vet visit (tried to get into Dr. Greek but there were no openings, so I went to the vet they suggested I try). The vet said the chameleon appeared healthy, but thought maybe her jaw was slightly softer than what she would like. She also said there might be a mild respiratory issue. They did a blood test, which according to them was normal. They said she was not dehydrated. They did a dewormer, a vitamin shot and also prescribed Baytril to deal with the possible respiratory infection. This all occurred on Friday. Yesterday and today, the chameleon is very dark in color, which is not something she normal exhibits unless basking. She also often has her eyes closed. My hope here is that this current state could possibly be attributed to the medications, but I don't think so. I have a follow up with the same vet on Friday, but have also been trying to get in with Dr. Greek who specializes in chameleons from what I understand.

Any help/advice would be appreciated.
 

cd1236

New Member
This was taken just few minutes ago. It's not a great photo but she's in the back of the enclosure and I can't get a good angle.
 

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Beman

Chameleon Enthusiast
Pics please. I hate when vets give vitamin shots and dewormer without real reason. This is always a red flag for me. This can impact them negatively as well. Did they do an xray to tell bone density? How did they come up with the jaw being soft?
 

cd1236

New Member
No x ray was done. My guess on the jaw was some sort of feeling? I am not sure to be honest.

I just added a picture and just noticed that there is a fresh poop in the pic. I've never seen that yellow coloring before.
 
Hello,

I have a young (approximately 3-4 month) veiled that appears to be rapidly declining. The stats are as follows:

Chameleon was purchased at Petco (strike one).

The chameleon is housed in a 30" x 30" x 48" outdoor enclosure in Southern California. I've had her for a little more than five weeks. The enclosure is bioactive and is planted with hibiscus, pothos and schefflera. Feeders (small dubias, BSFL, crickets and occasional silks or hornworms are dusted with Earth Pro-A. I do not dust with any D3 due to the outdoor enclosure. The weather since I've had her has been good, with only a couple of days of what I would call high temps (90 degrees). On those days she is brought inside. The average daytime humidity in the enclosure is probably about 30-40, and at night it averages a little over 80. It is beginning to get a bit chilly at night, so at nights I move her into the garage where it doesn't get lower than low to mid 60's. I run a dripper somewhat frequently but have never seen her drink off of leaves or anything like that.

The problem: Last week, she began exhibiting signs of a possible respiratory infection (snout up in the air, gulping open mouth occasionally). She was also not eating from what I could tell. I arranged for a vet visit (tried to get into Dr. Greek but there were no openings, so I went to the vet they suggested I try). The vet said the chameleon appeared healthy, but thought maybe her jaw was slightly softer than what she would like. She also said there might be a mild respiratory issue. They did a blood test, which according to them was normal. They said she was not dehydrated. They did a dewormer, a vitamin shot and also prescribed Baytril to deal with the possible respiratory infection. This all occurred on Friday. Yesterday and today, the chameleon is very dark in color, which is not something she normal exhibits unless basking. She also often has her eyes closed. My hope here is that this current state could possibly be attributed to the medications, but I don't think so. I have a follow up with the same vet on Friday, but have also been trying to get in with Dr. Greek who specializes in chameleons from what I understand.

Any help/advice would be appreciated.
You sound like you know what you're doing, but I would recommend being absolutely sure of the temps/humidity during the day. Theres a big difference between 80 degrees and 30% vs 85 degrees and 50%.
 

cd1236

New Member
You sound like you know what you're doing, but I would recommend being absolutely sure of the temps/humidity during the day. Theres a big difference between 80 degrees and 30% vs 85 degrees and 50%.
Noted, and I'm sure there have probably been some instances where I've not checked this as frequently as I should. That having been said, I have two hygrometers (one low and one high). When things appear to be getting low, I run a mister adjacent to the cage until the humidity bumps up.
 

redhorse

Chameleon Enthusiast
Your chameleon looks pretty good and glad your seeing a vet. What does she do in the Natural Sun? The dark colors could be due to our cooler night time temps (mine are dark until they worm up. I have noticed (yearly) mine also will do the breathing thing when we get into Aug thru Jan. I have taken to vet in the past (years ago) and there was never anything found. They never stop eating just slow down due to the cooler night time temps.

If your afraid of pneumonia (which is possible) look up some of the links to work with that. Great info is provided here.

For me the temps have not dropped enough to bring inside but soon. JMO I am just glad your noticing changes and hope it is temp related.
They will eat less (I change to every other day for adults but the babies seem daily is needed still).

Just remember there are wild groups in San Diego which deal with the lower and higher temps.

I'm in Rancho Cucamonga

From the pic it looks as if there is no spur so it is probably female but a better look at the heal would help.
 
Noted, and I'm sure there have probably been some instances where I've not checked this as frequently as I should. That having been said, I have two hygrometers (one low and one high). When things appear to be getting low, I run a mister adjacent to the cage until the humidity bumps up.
With a young veiled, I'd be worried about humidity being too high for the ambient temp, particularly in/above live plants where she spends lots of time. I've noticed as much as 20% difference from the side of my hybrid indoor vs. on top of a potted plant. Of course, it's indoors.
 

cd1236

New Member
Your chameleon looks pretty good and glad your seeing a vet. What does she do in the Natural Sun? The dark colors could be due to our cooler night time temps (mine are dark until they worm up. I have noticed (yearly) mine also will do the breathing thing when we get into Aug thru Jan. I have taken to vet in the past (years ago) and there was never anything found. They never stop eating just slow down due to the cooler night time temps.

If your afraid of pneumonia (which is possible) look up some of the links to work with that. Great info is provided here.

For me the temps have not dropped enough to bring inside but soon. JMO I am just glad your noticing changes and hope it is temp related.
They will eat less (I change to every other day for adults but the babies seem daily is needed still.

Just remember there are wild groups in San Diego which deal with the lower and higher times.

I'm in Rancho Cucamonga
I am new to this, but yes, I agree that I am probably bringing her in a bit earlier than needed, but given her current state I'm being cautious. Up until yesterday, she had displayed a brighter green color during the day, typically darkening up when basking. When not basking, she's been mostly just a bright green, sometimes with some spots of black and yellow.
 

redhorse

Chameleon Enthusiast
I agree with Sergantapone and outdoors there is so much more fluctuation. Specially now with the winds picking up in places.
 

cd1236

New Member
With a young veiled, I'd be worried about humidity being too high for the ambient temp, particularly in/above live plants where she spends lots of time. I've noticed as much as 20% difference from the side of my hybrid indoor vs. on top of a potted plant. Of course, it's indoors.
I do not have extreme fluctuations in the enclosure given that it's outside. There are some, but not as drastic as what you ae describing.
 

cd1236

New Member
Eating has decreased from what I can gather, but I have noticed two poops in the last two days. She has never been terribly comfortable hunting/eating in front of me, but most of what I've put in the feeder cup in recent days has been left alone. Some crickets may have been eaten (or escaped). There is also the possibility that she has eaten some black soldier flies that I've let loose in there, but I have not physically observed this.
 

redhorse

Chameleon Enthusiast
I think your witnessing the difference between Veileds, other chameleons and how we want them to be. Your setup looks great and lots of hiding places but that also creates and environment for her to be a chameleons and hid. Veileds are very unpredictable but babies will eat, eat, and eat more. If there is poop, she might be finding outside of your feeding container and might be nibbling on some of the plants too.. I would remove all live food and give her just enough to monitor. If she is eating she does not have respiratory. JMHO

But keep the vet visits just incase.
 

redhorse

Chameleon Enthusiast
I have 3 a little younger than yours but I don't leave food in the cage. I feed them everyday and they come running- The last few weeks they are just slower due to the night time temps.
Just a habit I have developed by not leaving food and monitoring is done 100% of the time. Not everyone has the time so not expected.

Her weight, tail, griping the plant, eye contact with you and lack of puffy throat would fool me at being sick.(y)

Hope she does well.. I am going to check on my babies now.. ha ha
 

redhorse

Chameleon Enthusiast
The closed eyes are the concerning thing. Just curious, at what temps do you bring yours inside?
I feel dumb--- missed the closed eye thing but I have noticed with 1 Saul- if he isn't trying to escape, looking for food, and just chilling his eye is closed. But he is a little different than the rest.. He only has one working eye.

I bring them in when day time is in the 70's and night time in the upper 50's. Don't follow what I do since this is just my way, I would do what is recommended by others. REASON: I am moving my cages around chasing the Sun and will move them from front to back yard just to use what mother nature has provided. Like I mentioned before-- I have the time for all my odd ways of don't things.

Note: I have raised 90 babies in the last year (multiple clutches) do to lack of paying attention to my adults. So, my experience is from being a little to relaxed in my ways. I did raise them all to a minimum of 3 months and still have a few keepers (2 months old and going on 9 months).
Plus, adult at a little over 5 years old. Love these critters :)

Can you share a picture with her in the Sun and her eyes open and one when they are closed. I know this is a lot but in my experience with infections their eyes will have a different look, kind of droopy --hard to explain.

But again, the vet does tests we do not. :)
 
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