WC Melleri assistance please

[PardalisGirl]

Hummmm.....

I'm sorry....I got the sequence of events wrong. I would keep doing what you are doing. She does still need access to UVB somehow. Either rig up some lighting for the tub or take her out in the tub after work for 1/2 hour. 20 minutes of real sun equals 8 of the manufactured UVB. Our weather is pretty mild now. She might enjoy the fresh air.

The "drunken" walking could be a couple of things. General weakness like that caused by an illness or loss of equilibrium due to injury in the head are two that pop into my head now. Not really possible to figure out if there is an injury to the head. Low temperatures like she experienced can have prolonged and serious health results too. The 40's is pretty low, even for a Montane. Low temperatures can disrupt metabolism for awhile. Prolonged low temperatures (days) can actually damage metabolism systems permanently.

I would wait for the test results and take it from there. If she keeps that worm down for a day then I would try one more insect of choice. Just one a day as sort of a test. She will eventually poop it out or regurgitate it. Either way, you will learn more about her condition. If she is getting better, this might stimulate her appetite enough to have an interest in food on her own. In any case it won't overload her stomach if her digestion is slow.

 

[AJA]

Roller Coaster recovery...

I got home last night to douse Kizzy with water and medicine. I popped a small horn worm in her mouth and as she was mouthing it and deciding what it was she gulped it down and opened her eyes and her expression was "Wow" Her light switched on and she was very active. She walked around, eyes open very alert, watched the dogs. I offered her a dish of Dubai and she refused them until she climbed on top of her lair, then she snatched those puppies right up. Then she turned dark and stopped. Everything went still. She reverted back to her catatonic state. I put her away and brought her back out later for some water. I gave her a shower but after 5 minutes she wanted out of there. The water temp was warm.

When I talked of walking like a drunk sailor it is more like thrashing about and its after I have given her water/medication. I am guessing this is either an extreme stress response "get your grimey hands off me" or I have accidently put water down her lungs. I usually have her head held back to prevent this. Put her to bed.

This morning she was catatonic. I think I am going to go back to the IM baytril to make sure she is getting it into her system. No word back from the vet regarding the test results.

 

[luevelvet]

If at all possible, I would try to eliminate the moving back and forth from one enclosure to the other. If shes catatonic but holding herself up, leave her in the main cage with UVB and slightly warmer basking spot. Water can be administered via a dropper and usually once they get a taste of it will accept it one drop at a time so the threat of getting water down the wrong pipe is minimal.

I've also had better results by injecting the "oral" version of Baytril into feeders instead of just dropping it into their mouths. It sounds like shes eating through "suggestive feeding" ( as opposed to force feeding) so if that's the case, inject a hornworm and drop it in her mouth to take down. I can't stress enough how important hydration is during a round of baytril. I provide water through a dropper before and after each administered dose along with multiple mistings per day.

I hope she turns around. It sounds like she has some fight left in her yet.

Luis

 

[PardalisGirl]

Sounds pretty good........

Thanks for the update Amy....The eating is pretty good news. Not just pretty good, but really good.

That thrashing around awkward movement sounds pretty normal. Mine do that same thing if I put them in my laundry tub for a shower and medication as I did when they were being acclimated. They look very awkward and unbalanced during that kind of handling process. Now that you have described the behavior and when it happens I am not worried about it anymore.

Could she be stressed out by something in your home that is causing her to assume this "state"? It is strange to be normal, eat and then become catatonic again. Reptiles will often do this when they are stressed by something in their enviornment such that they "want to disappear". Closing their eyes and remaining still makes the stressful thing "go away" and makes them believe that they are invisible to the thing that is stressing them. Could the dogs be stressful? Is there something else that could be causing it? Does she have foliage to hide in if she wants to? My most shy Melleri perches exclusively at the top of the trellis in her free range. I can't reach her from there unless I get a step ladder. She feels very safe and secure there. The others feel secure enough to roost in areas within my grasp. Sacha has always been very shy with me. She was not happy when she was quarantined in a cage. She has started to blossom now that she has this special perch of her own where she can feel safe.

Just something to think about. I'm not saying it's whats wrong with Kizzy. I just find the dramatic change in behavior strange.

 

[AJA]

I try to be conscience of her presence and everything around her. The only time she is lower than me is when she is in the tub getting her shower. I try to keep her as high as possible. Most of my dogs are small (only come calf high if that). I do not let them sniff her (or any of my chameleons) or bring her below chest level.

The 'impression' anthropomorphic or not that I got last night was that, she ate her bugs and then all of a sudden she got a belly ache. I only jump to this assumption because she is on the 'pepto' to sooth her stomach lining. She was six feet in the air when she ate her bugs so the dogs should not have been an issue. Also I have had her for two weeks, I would think the dogs would have been an issue earlier on. When she is in her tub, that is placed high on a shelf and I drape a cover over her so she can hide.

Hopefully she does't have those awful microflora that Kristina talked about that could be burrowing in her intestines.

 

[AJA]

UPDATE: The tests came back and Kizzy has a gram negative psedo-moan-us, caused by wet and dirty conditions (probably from quarantine) . She is on something that begins with a C (sorry it was a long weekend). She wasn't on Baytril before but Clorafan. She gets an injection every three days and then another test a week after her last injection. She hasn't eaten since last week, so far she has only lost 1 gram.

Saturday night she gave me a good scare, as I had her out on her tree and went to attend a BBQ. Thinking she would STAY there, she decided to go on a little trip. In the dark with a head lamp on, I found her on a fence about 50 feet away from the tree she was on, that was on my deck..bad lizard!

She appears more alert but prefers not to be bothered and gives me " just leave me alone" looks. I am giving her 12 ml water twice a day to help with the injections.

Thank you Catherine, Brye and Nick for your support on this

 

[Fearaffect]

So, this is easily cured?? Im hoping........

 

[AJA]

I am hoping too..I am being cautious and saying it's treatable. You don't expect people to die from the flu but they can.

On the positive side. Her color still looks good, she gets pissy with me at times, she is opening her eyes on her own, she likes her perch and moves around a little.

 

[Fearaffect]

You don't expect people to die from the flu but they can.

.

Very true.......even in this day and age.........

well, sounds like your taking care of her pretty darn good......now that tempelli and fuellebornis.....that im not to sure of.....

 

[PardalisGirl]

Thanks for update.....

I'm glad you got the diagnosis so you can get the right treatment started. Maybe today or tomorrow you can try putting some food in her mouth and see if she will chew and swallow.

About being outside.....I would never let her be unattended or uncaged outside. I've had Layla in my lap on our deck and had crows make low fly overs to evaluate whether they could get her away from me. I know that if I was just a few feet away from her, they would have tried to carry her off. They do like to roam and wander and are not afraid to walk around on the ground. One of my five climbs down the free range and walks around on the ground every morning. Part of his routine. He can't get out of the room and is quickly found. I'd never find him outside though.

Sounds like Kizzy is doing well enough to be very hopeful for a full recovery. Keep us updated!

 

[AJA]

UPDATE: Well we are 1/2 through our treatments for Kizzy. She is recieving Ampikan (?) for her cooties. She has dropped a lot of weight and is back to the same weight as when I got her.

I consulted with the vet about this and we are now administering 10cc of saline sub q when she gets her medicine and then the 12 ml of water once a day every day. I have a feeling that the forcing of water is an issue with her weight loss. She still is wobbly but getting better.

On the good side. Her grip is back to bone crushing and she is a lot more alert and active. I assist feed her when she gaps at me, by plunking bugs in her mouth. She also appears to have less slobber in her mouth (a symptom of the pseudomonus).

Now all I have to do is get her weight back up. I have a cup-o-bugs for her daily and try to keep track of what I put in and what is left at the end of the day.

 

[summoner12]

Good to hear she is doing a bit better.

 

[AJA]

Last Post

Well, I wanted to be my last post on Kizzy to be more upbeat, but it will not. Due to my carelessness, Kizzy died this weekend. She was going to recover from the psuedomonis and was due to get her final testing this Friday. I feel like I need to apologize to the forum and the well wishers for letting them down. I am so disgusted with myself I have no other way to punish myself other than letting my peers know, what a moron I am. Regardless of my intentions of providing the best for her, it doesn't mean squat if I leave commons sense out of the equation.

I am truly sorry for letting the fans and mostly to Kizzy herself for letting her down.

 

[summoner12]

Don't be too hard on yourself. We try as hard as we can but can't always save them.

You have learned a lot from this and should move forward. Don't be discouraged.

 

[Pure]

That is very sad to hear Amy. I'm very sorry, but even the best of us can make a mistake. I would like to know just what it was that you did or didn't do. I think knowing may in one way or the other help myself and others from making the same mistake.

I do understand if you do wish not to post it.

 

[Fearaffect]

Kizzy was blessed to have u as a mom...........every1 makes mistakes Amy, dont beat yourself up. I've made same mistake......several times in fact...