Please help!

[KikiHill]

Hi everyone,

I have an 8 month old (I believe female) veiled chameleon named Kiki. She is my first chameleon and of course care about her a lot and want the best for her. I got her in October and she was thriving the first few months I had her and she grew pretty quickly. However, lately she seems to be having some health issues. Starting around the end of January she stopped eating- she began shedding shortly after that, so I thought OK this could be normal. I continued to leave crickets in her bowl every day with no results. Then tried bringing the crickets closer to her basking area because I thought maybe she was having trouble seeing them. One day she tried to grab one, but couldn't because it seemed like she was having trouble extending her tongue. I ended up using my tongs to grab the cricket and put it in her mouth. Since then, she'll look at the crickets but hasn't tried to grab one. I've started force-feeding her because it seemed like she was getting weaker. I'll usually spray a drop of water on the tip of her nose and when she goes to open her mouth I'll put a cricket in there- I'm just trying to keep her alive at this point because I know things can turn very quickly when reptiles stop eating.

These are some details about Kiki and her enclosure:

Habitat- (photo attached below) Mesh enclosure with glass doors at the front, contains fake plants/vines and two live plants (Dracaena and golden pothos). Her enclosure is in my room but I'm rarely there during the day so she gets a lot of alone time.

Heat/Light- Basking bulb and a zoomed reptisun 5.0 UVB that sit on top of the mesh lid. Also added a ceramic heat emitter on top because her basking area was getting too cold in the winter. Her basking area remains around 90 degrees F (measured with a digital thermometer). Her enclosure has plenty of space to move away from the heat if need be. Nighttime temp is usually 68-72.

Humidity- I mist her cage for a few minutes every morning and every night- I had an automatic mister but it stopped working so I've been spraying until I can find an alternative. Because of the winter, I have had some trouble keeping the humidity in her enclosure above 40%-- when I got home today it was at 37% (measured with a digital hygrometer). Could this be why she has been sick lately? Regardless, any recommendations to raise the humidity will be greatly appreciated!

Diet- She normally has about 3-7 medium to large crickets per day dusted with calcium (without D3) or reptivite (once per week). Sometimes I'll throw in a green, like kale. The crickets are not free to roam and they are in an escape proof bowl toward the bottom of her enclosure. I've also tried giving her black soldier fly larvae and dubia roaches but she doesn't seem interested in them.

Temperament- She's pretty feisty and usually hisses at me in the morning, so I try not to bother her. I have been handling her as little as possible and have only handled her when I am trying to force-feed her. She is usually dark green/brownish when she is basking, a lighter green if she's just hanging out, and then very light green when she's sleeping.

I would really appreciate it if anyone has any recommendations about her habitat or any ideas of what I can do to help her. Of course I have no objection taking her to an exotic vet but the options in my area are fairly limited. Thank you in advance!!

 

[kinyonga]

welcome to the forum and the world of chameleons.

Please post some photos of her and the cage with the lights showing.

 

[elizaann2]

Hello and welcome to the forum! Let's get you some support with your questions and concerns. I'll see if we can get some experts here to take a look at your husbandry. In the meantime can you fill out the below information?

Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
• Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
• Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
• Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
• Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long do you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
• Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
• History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
• Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
• Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
• Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
• Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
• Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high-traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
• Location - Where are you geographically located?

Current Problem -

 

[KikiHill]

welcome to the forum and the world of chameleons.

Please post some photos of her and the cage with the lights showing.

Thank you for your response! I have uploaded some photos of her/her enclosure. She seems to be getting quite thin... I feel like her stomach is usually a bit plumper. Yesterday I was reading some other posts on this forum and I found out I have been using the wrong UVB. I have ordered a T5 HO 5.0 that is arriving tomorrow- I'm just hoping I'm not too late She was having trouble eating a cricket today so I ended up grinding up a few crickets and mixing them with calcium/water. She was able to eat this but seems to be having trouble moving her tongue

 

[KikiHill]

More details about Kiki...

• Crickets are gut-loaded with Fluker's High-Calcium Cricket Diet and I'll throw in some Fluker's Cricket Quenchers sometimes
• Calcium is Zoo Med Repti Calcium without D3
• Mist 2x per day- I often see her drinking water
• Feces are usually soft with the little white thing at the end- haven't noticed anything too weird lately but maybe a bit runnier than usual. She has never been tested for parasites
• Basking light is Zoo Med Daylight Blue reptile bulb- UVB was Zoo Med Reptisun 5.0 UVB compact- upgrading to T5 HO 5.0 when it arrives tomorrow
• Lights are on a timer from 7:50am-7:50pm
• Lowest temp at night is 68- I don't let it get below this because my bearded dragon's enclosure is also in the room (not visible to Kiki) and his minimum temp is 68
• Bottom of cage is 71, basking area is 90- measured w/ infrared digital thermometer- also have a digital thermometer constantly measuring temperature of the basking area
• Cage dimensions are 18" x 18" x 36" - 50 gallons
• The cage is not near any fans/air vents or high traffic areas...there isn't much air flow in the room since it's winter and we have a gas heating system and radiators that produce heat
• Her cage is on a side table and the top of her cage is taller than me- probably 6 feet or so off the ground

 

[KikiHill]

Took these photos of her ~40 minutes ago...sometimes she is very close to her UVB. Not sure if I should move that branch further down because I don't want her to burn herself

 

[kinyonga]

Have you looked at the heels? The colour looks male.

Tarsal spurs…
https://www.adcham.com/html/husbandry/glossary/tarsalspur.html

Where do you live?

 

[CalamityCrow]

Hello! Welcome to the forum. There are definitely a few husbandry things that need to be mitigated sooner than later. I encourage you to answer every question to the husbandry form that was filled out above. I'm also going to tag in our resident experts: @MissSkittles @Beman @kinyonga to cover anything I might have missed.

But in the meantime, check out my feedback of your descriptions, and where some changes will greatly aid your girl in living her best life. My responses are in bold:

• Crickets are gut-loaded with Fluker's High-Calcium Cricket Diet and I'll throw in some Fluker's Cricket Quenchers sometimes You need to be feeding your feeders with fresh greens. Mustard greens, collard greens, smaller amounts of things like carrots and sweet potatoes, and once in a while some fruits like apples. The cricket diet and quenchers are extremely high in things like Vitamin D3 and other nutrients that can overload your chameleon's system and cause issues. We also suggest a variety of feeders - adding black soldier fly larvae, dubia roaches, silkworms, etc. are great for your cham's health. Nevertheless, crickets are a solid staple feeder. You do NOT need to give her any greens - chameleons are insectivores and don't need the greens directly. Gutloading your crickets with proper greens is the best way for your gal to get her veggies! I've also found that putting the feeders in view of your cham's usual basking area is ideal.
• Calcium is Zoo Med Repti Calcium without D3 This is good for daily feeding. Make sure you're dusting the crickets well, but not so much they look like powdered donuts. You also want to dust twice a month (Say 1st and 15th of the month) with a vitamin supplement, something like Repashy Calcium plus Lo-D. If you're using the reptivite with D3 every week, you need to cut that in half. Too much vitamin D3 or Vitamin A can cause issues, due to them being fat-soluble vitamins, which take a while to leave the cham's system.
• Mist 2x per day- I often see her drinking water For how long are you misting? You definitely want to be giving her enough water, but not so much that the cage doesn't dry completely. Veiled chams need 40-50% humidity during the day and 80-100% at night if you can get your temperatures down into the 60s. If you find you can't keep the humidity up, you can wrap one or two sides of the cage (as long as there's still airflow through it) with a shower curtain or a window shrink wrap to keep that humidity where it needs to be. Just be careful not to keep TOO much humidity in there, which can lead to respiratory infections.
• Feces are usually soft with the little white thing at the end- haven't noticed anything too weird lately but maybe a bit runnier than usual. She has never been tested for parasites she sounds hydrated enough but it'd be great if we could see some poop pictures. We also ALWAYS recommend testing for parasites - often that can be the cause of some issues.
• Basking light is Zoo Med Daylight Blue reptile bulb- UVB was Zoo Med Reptisun 5.0 UVB compact- upgrading to T5 HO 5.0 when it arrives tomorrow Good on upgrading to the linear T5 light. THis is absolutely crucial. You also need to make sure that her plants/branches are 6-8" below that light - too close means overexposure to UVB and can cause things like UVB burns.
• Lights are on a timer from 7:50am-7:50pm Good! 12 hour rotations are ideal.
• Lowest temp at night is 68- I don't let it get below this because my bearded dragon's enclosure is also in the room (not visible to Kiki) and his minimum temp is 68
• Bottom of cage is 71, basking area is 90- measured w/ infrared digital thermometer- also have a digital thermometer constantly measuring temperature of the basking area The basking area is way too hot for her - folks here suggest for females, and especially young chams in general, that you do not go anything above 80. 90 is going to cook your lovely little girl.
• Cage dimensions are 18" x 18" x 36" - 50 gallons The smallest suggested size cage is 24"x 24"x48" - they need this size at a minimum to move around and be comfortable in their environment. I would upgrade this sooner than later, especially since she's approaching full size.
• The cage is not near any fans/air vents or high traffic areas...there isn't much air flow in the room since it's winter and we have a gas heating system and radiators that produce heat
• Her cage is on a side table and the top of her cage is taller than me- probably 6 feet or so off the ground this is also good. They're tree-dwellers by nature and need that height to feel safe.

Overall, there're a few things that need improvement so your girl can have the best life possible. Upgrading the light is EXCELLENT! Make sure you have proper distance from the light to her basking area so she gets proper exposures.

You definitely need to lower that basking temp for her ASAP. I use a 60 watt incandescent bulb (NOT an LED, they don't give off heat) instead of a reptile lamp. It makes controlling temperatures much easier. Take those temps down to 80.

You should also remove all fake plants - veileds like to nibble on plants and taking a bite from a fake one risks impaction and death if they can't process it through their systems.

VERY IMPORTANT: If your cham is female (I'm not entirely sure, her casque is fairly large... Does she have tarsal spurs?) If you're sure she's a female, she needs a lay bin in the cage if she doesn't have one. I'd set one up and keep it in there year-round so she's comfortable with its presence. Especially if you've seen extra colors coming out on her. Those would be receptive colors. Veiled chams lay eggs, much like chickens do, even if she hasn't mated. Without a lay bin, she'll become egg-bound and that quickly leads to death. Here's some great basics on chameleon husbandry: https://chameleonacademy.com/veiled-chameleon-care/

Lay Bin:

 

[kinyonga]

Hi everyone,

I have an 8 month old (I believe female) veiled chameleon named Kiki. She is my first chameleon and of course care about her a lot and want the best for her. I got her in October and she was thriving the first few months I had her and she grew pretty quickly. However, lately she seems to be having some health issues. Starting around the end of January she stopped eating- she began shedding shortly after that, so I thought OK this could be normal. I continued to leave crickets in her bowl every day with no results. Then tried bringing the crickets closer to her basking area because I thought maybe she was having trouble seeing them. One day she tried to grab one, but couldn't because it seemed like she was having trouble extending her tongue. Difficulty extending the tongue can be from an injury, an infection, MBD, etc. I ended up using my tongs to grab the cricket and put it in her mouth. Since then, she'll look at the crickets but hasn't tried to grab one. I've started force-feeding her because it seemed like she was getting weaker. You have to be careful that you don’t aspirate food into her lungs if you syringe feed. It’s ok to slip a cricket into her mouth but be sure to place it head first between her teeth. I'll usually spray a drop of water on the tip of her nose and when she goes to open her mouth I'll put a cricket in there- I'm just trying to keep her alive at this point because I know things can turn very quickly when reptiles stop eating. I wouldn’t spray a drop of water on her nose, but rather drip water slowly on the end of her nose at the rate of one drop every couple of seconds to ensure she doesn’t aspirate it and has time to swallow it.

These are some details about Kiki and her enclosure:

Habitat- (photo attached below) Mesh enclosure with glass doors at the front, contains fake plants/vines and two live plants (Dracaena and golden pothos). Her enclosure is in my room but I'm rarely there during the day so she gets a lot of alone time. It’s important to use real, non toxic plants that have been well washed, both sides of the leaves since veiled tend to eat some greenery. Fake plants, if eaten, lead to impaction.

Heat/Light- Basking bulb and a zoomed reptisun 5.0 UVB that sit on top of the mesh lid. Also added a ceramic heat emitter on top because her basking area was getting too cold in the winter. Her basking area remains around 90 degrees F (measured with a digital thermometer). Her enclosure has plenty of space to move away from the heat if need be. Nighttime temp is usually 68-72. If the basking area is too cool in the winter, use a bigger bulb, but test it with your hand to ensure it eont burn the chameleon. Hold your hand top side up under the basking light inside the cage as close to the light as you can. If you want to move your hand, then it will burn your chameleon. No lights on at night…right?

Humidity- I mist her cage for a few minutes every morning and every night- I had an automatic mister but it stopped working so I've been spraying until I can find an alternative. Because of the winter, I have had some trouble keeping the humidity in her enclosure above 40%-- when I got home today it was at 37% (measured with a digital hygrometer). Could this be why she has been sick lately? Regardless, any recommendations to raise the humidity will be greatly appreciated!

Diet- She normally has about 3-7 medium to large crickets per day dusted with calcium (without D3) or reptivite (once per week). Sometimes I'll throw in a green, like kale. The crickets are not free to roam and they are in an escape proof bowl toward the bottom of her enclosure. I've also tried giving her black soldier fly larvae and dubia roaches but she doesn't seem interested in them. Reptivite with D3 and preformed vitamin A should only be used twice a month lightly. The other feedings should be dusted lightly with a phos free calcium powder. The insects should be fed/gut loaded with greens such as dandelion greens, kale, collards, endive, etc and veggies such as squash, carrots, zucchini, sweet potatoes, sweet red pepper, etc, and a very small amount of apple, pears, melon, berries, etc.

Temperament- She's pretty feisty and usually hisses at me in the morning, so I try not to bother her. I have been handling her as little as possible and have only handled her when I am trying to force-feed her. She is usually dark green/brownish when she is basking, a lighter green if she's just hanging out, and then very light green when she's sleeping.

I would really appreciate it if anyone has any recommendations about her habitat or any ideas of what I can do to help her. Of course I have no objection taking her to an exotic vet but the options in my area are fairly limited. Thank you in advance!!

 

[kinyonga]

Good timing, @CalamityCrow
Still waiting to see the tarsal spurs…

 

[MissSkittles]

Took these photos of her ~40 minutes ago...sometimes she is very close to her UVB. Not sure if I should move that branch further down because I don't want her to burn herself

The basking area should be 8-9” below the lights with the correct T5HO fixture using either a 5.0 or 6% uvb bulb. Many need or opt to elevate the lights above the screen top to help prevent burns.

 

[Beman]

This is a male. Has male coloring and bulge on tail base.

 

[KikiHill]

Hi Everyone,

Thank you for all of your responses! I really appreciate you taking the time to help out me and Kiki. I will get more pictures of him/her later but after a closer look I believe he or she actually does have spurs. Thank you for pointing that out! I might need to change his name now lol. I received the new UVB today and set it up immediately. However, last night, I noticed the original UVB that I have had since October (the compact one) wasn't on at all and it had completely burned out. I have no idea when this happened but I am not happy with myself for failing to notice this because I believe that is the root cause of his health issues. He is showing symptoms like not being able to move his tongue, not eating, moving slower, seems weaker. Since I put in the UVB, he has been moving around his enclosure and is a bright green color. I am still debating if I should bring him to the vet or if this is something I can try and reverse on my own. Feeding has been especially difficult- thank you for your tips too- because I really wouldn't want to make him aspirate his food.

As for my other husbandry/feeding issues I will definitely fix those as soon as possible. I bought a larger pothos plant from home depot today that I am planning on putting in his enclosure. I am going to take out the artificial plants but haven't done it yet because I am worried about stressing him out right now. I wish I had gone on this forum to begin with because on other websites they tell you many different things.

I am probably going to call the emergency vet nearby and see if they have any openings in exotics department- they are usually pretty difficult to get into but I don't know if he will get better on his own or not.

Thank you everyone!

 

[kinyonga]

If it was the bulb, then hopefully things will resolve themselves. My only concern would be that he produces/gets enough D3 now to correct things…but you said you were using Reptivite once a week instead of every other week.…but you didn’t say it has D3 in it. Does it?
Just make sure you have the husbandry right….and you may be lucky because of the extra times you used the Reptivite…if it does have D3 in it.

If you look at the photos in post #6, it looks like the UVB light is out. I meant to mention it. Sometimes there just too much to rmemeber to mention.

 

[KikiHill]

Hi Everyone,

Just posting an update so if people run into similar issues in the future they may see this post. I am back from a long trip at the emergency vet and unfortunately Kiki is no longer with us They did some bloodwork and determined that he was in irreversible kidney failure. Unfortunately, the vigorous treatments to keep him alive would have been a fortune, and since it was irreversible he would've had to go to the hospital multiple times per week for the rest of his life...it was a very tough decision but I didn't think it was a good quality of life for him to have. I will miss him dearly...he held onto my finger until we had to say goodbye. I'll never really know whether it was the husbandry or an underlying illness but I got him from Petsmart and fell into their "ZooMed Chameleon Kit" trap- so that was a bad start! Thank you everyone for your help and support throughout the last couple of stressful days. I wish I was responding with better news :'(

 

[kinyonga]

So very sorry for your loss. All you can do is keep Kiki in your heart. Hugs.

 

[elizaann2]

I am so so sorry for your loss. My heart goes out to you. That is an impossible situation to be in.

 

[Ghostbirb]

I’m so sorry for your loss

 

[CalamityCrow]

So so sorry you lost Kiki. I know you were doing the best you can and trying to do better. Love and prayers to you.

 

[MissSkittles]

I’m so sorry that you lost Kiki. It’s never an easy decision to let our pets go, but is always one made with love.