Prices

[NWD]

yes

Yes but selectively cb bred chameleons are worth more because they are generally better quality less stressed and have less chance of parasites and disease so of course they are going to cost more. Also most people know this so they pay the extra amount for captive bred. So I don't think this is such a huge problem if you have some nice captive breds you will probably be able to sell them for more than a wild caught with little problem. The major problem with selling reptiles as in any market is other people selling their reptiles for dirt cheap because they have huge amounts. This lowers the value and ruins it for the smaller breeders. So don't be a walmart keep your prices decent!!!

 

[Elizadolots]

I think one of the worst things about the backward's pricing (in which imported animals are more affordable than domestic) is that newbies are drawn to the imports as "more affordable". They are seen as good "starter" animals because they are financially more accessible. That they are also more likely to come with challenges and require expensive care is something that is discovered later. It would be good if those animals were put in the hands of experienced keepers who were better able to deal with the challenges that come with a wild caught animal.

 

[Motherlode Chameleon]

I think one of the worst things about the backward's pricing (in which imported animals are more affordable than domestic) is that newbies are drawn to the imports as "more affordable". They are seen as good "starter" animals because they are financially more accessible. That they are also more likely to come with challenges and require expensive care is something that is discovered later. It would be good if those animals were put in the hands of experienced keepers who were better able to deal with the challenges that come with a wild caught animal.

That is the gospel!! That could not be more accurate and I second that!

Wild caught animals do not make good pets! If you want a pet buy captive breds. Wild caught animals should first go to chameleon breeders.

 

[Texas Panther Man]

That is the gospel!! That could not be more accurate and I second that!

Wild caught animals do not make good pets! If you want a pet buy captive breds. Wild caught animals should first go to chameleon breeders.

Try making that statement into reality though. Most people want the cheapest. Even though in most cases cheapest isnt always the best. Whether it be quality or fit. (when i say fit I mean it doesnt fit into the buyers needs as well as the more exp option.) Too many times people see that 50.00 wc and compare it to a 150.00 cb baby and they buy the wc to save a 100.00 . Not knowing or not caring at that moment of purchase that they may spend twice that on vet care to keep the guy/gal alive. Then it still may never fully acclimate to captive life.

I currently have one wc female she is my only wc chameleon i posses. At least to the best of my knowledge. She def has a diff personality than my other cb chams. If I were not a breeder I wouldnt purchase anything wc.
Theres really no need too, you can find cb offspring from most of the avail species if you look long enough. You dont need wc blood to keep a line going strong if you dont breed. So why be a cheapskate and take a risk on a wc import? You can roll the dice to save a buck, and end up if your not extreemely careful infecting your whole collection.

I hope we've help show some of the reasons not to buy that cheap wc cham when you've got the oppurtunity to buy cb. So next time you see that 300-400 cham for sale instead of condemning that breeder as a greedy bastard. Think about the 1 1/2 yrs of hard work and $$$ he/she invested in that clutch.

 

[pssh]

Some people think that they are disposable. Vet care costs more than the animal, so they just buy a new one when it dies


Edit: Speaking of mellers, if these are captive born why the heck would someone sell them so cheap?!? That's even worse!

http://market.kingsnake.com/detail.php?cat=52&de=832239

 

[Johnny909]

It all has to do with demand, panthers and veileds are the most attractive of the breeds, all these other chameleons are usualy bought by people who already own a chameleon. Also, you cant sell a WC specimen too expesive cause 80% of them being sold will die within 2 years. Panthers and veileds are pretty much the only hardy chameleons on the market with a longer background of captive breeding. The only expensive chameleon on the general market is panthers, and they sell cause of the colors, i dont know of any animal besides birds that have such "real" colors.

The reptile biz is a dirty one, and not regulated has it should be. Most reptiles sold are indeed disposed of.

 

[Texas Panther Man]

I seriously doubt thats a cb mellers. Did you see the size of that cham? He/She looks to be at least 4-5 months old minimum. Looks to be about the size of alot of the smaller juvies that were coming in last year. I MIGHT be wrong. But if the guy doesnt have pics of hatchlings from birth to the current stage I'd call BS. And if they are cb, where are the pics of the sire/dame?

 

[Johnny909]

And i dont mean to say that theres anything wrong with buying a WC, but nobody will pay a high price cause they know the risks involved. Oh and on another not, veileds are cheaper cause most of them come from the wild or crappy farms from third world countries.

 

[Texas Panther Man]

There are cb reptiles for sale on almost every forum online. So to say you dont have cb in your area is completely off base. You may not have many local breeders but you still have access to cb offspring. The internet has really changed the face of reptile keeping forever. When I started about 15 yrs ago we had to do everything via snail mail and reptile shows. You dont have to sell your offspring at shows anymore. There are enough places online to advertise cb offspring that shows while being fun arent as essential as they once were to the hobbyist or breeder. I love to see and examine an animal before purchase, but if I feel its a trusted breeder Im purchasing from dont feel its a deal breaker to buy without seeing the animal in person.

Lets keep this on topic plz. This is about wc pricing affecting cb offspring prices in the market.

 

[JackP308]

On topic Im not talking the someone who keeps reptiles and actively checks forums adds and even knows what a breeder is. Reality CB prices are effected because pet shops get the majority of Customers to buy cheap imports because that is what people see when out and about and more than a lot of people get into chameleons by seeing them in pets shops. So therefore prices for CB species online forums from respectable breeder will not sell unless its people like us that care.

 

[Texas Panther Man]

On topic Im not talking the someone who keeps reptiles and actively checks forums adds and even knows what a breeder is. Reality CB prices are effected because pet shops get the majority of Customers to buy cheap imports because that is what people see when out and about and more than a lot of people get into chameleons by seeing them in pets shops. So therefore prices for CB species online forums from respectable breeder will not sell unless its people like us that care.

I rarely see chameleons in pet stores. And the ones you do see ( veileds and occas panthers and jacksons) are not the species Im really talking about in this thread. If you had read from the initial post. Im talking about the lesser kept rare species that we occasionally see cb.

How many times have you ever seen an oustalets in a pet store? How about kinyongia tenius or tavetana or a fishers? These are all species that have seen some captive success in breeding. Yet the breeders arent able to recoup costs because of pricing on wc imports.

 

[Red Island]

I seriously doubt thats a cb mellers. Did you see the size of that cham? He/She looks to be at least 4-5 months old minimum. Looks to be about the size of alot of the smaller juvies that were coming in last year. I MIGHT be wrong. But if the guy doesnt have pics of hatchlings from birth to the current stage I'd call BS. And if they are cb, where are the pics of the sire/dame?

Highly unlikely they are CB, last meller imports I saw were a group of very young chams and couldve been passed as CB easily.

 

[Maurer3D]

I buy CB animals when ever possable, and recomend hat to everyone. WC animals should realy only be bought by experienced breeders to introduce new blood into the captive genetic lines (to avoid inbreeding issues like the ones facing pre breed dogs).

I myself have only ever bought a couple WC animals in my life, a couple anolies over the years and a Mali Uromastyx (like 15years ago when that was the only way to get them).

In the wild babies have a realy small chance of growing to adulthood, If you can nudge that percent up with a catch and release program. Basically catch gravid females then release it after eggs are laid, then when the eggs hatch raise them like 4 or 5 months (in a protective environment) then release a good portion of them (50 to 75%) and send the rest to breeders in the pet trade. This is kind of like what we did here in America with the American Alligator in the 80's, bringing them back form the brink of extinction.

 

[pssh]

The pet stores around here much be weird, they often have fishers and I've seen a few other kinds, but they didn't even know what they were. I believe I saw a deremensis once. I see CB jacksons babies at one of the better pet stores frequently. I believe right now they only have a male veiled juvi and a male juvi ambilobe.

 

[Texas Panther Man]

Now thats a great suggestion for conservation. If it could be properly implemented in a third world enviroment/economy like Maddy. Im all for catch and release. The only drawbacks I would see are possible pathogens and parasites at the breeding/ranching facilities. You wouldnt want to release any females after laying that had contracted a foreign pathogen and introduce it back to the wild population. But that is good idea man.

 

[Texas Panther Man]

The pet stores around here much be weird, they often have fishers and I've seen a few other kinds, but they didn't even know what they were. I believe I saw a deremensis once. I see CB jacksons babies at one of the better pet stores frequently. I believe right now they only have a male veiled juvi and a male juvi ambilobe.

Pssh, your in Cali. You guys and the Florida people get all the good stuff. All of us in the interior portion of the states get a fraction of the animals you guys see.

 

[pssh]

Oh yeah. I forgot about that. Well, we don't get ALL the cool stuff up here. It's mainly SoCal.

 

[JackP308]

Actually I did read your post so stop assuming. Our Cleveland stores stocks Mellers Fishers Grace Oustlets are a few I can recall in the last few months and last were two terrible looking Jacksons week before christmas. Most likely all cheap imports, I have never seen a panther or veiled once not saying they dont stock them. Its called RMS Aquaculture call them if you like. Lots of Salty Critters Anyways sorry to stir up a mess. I just wanted to state I never see CB species so how are they going to sell compared to these cheap imports like hotcakes.

I rarely see chameleons in pet stores. And the ones you do see ( veileds and occas panthers and jacksons) are not the species Im really talking about in this thread. If you had read from the initial post. Im talking about the lesser kept rare species that we occasionally see cb.

How many times have you ever seen an oustalets in a pet store? How about kinyongia tenius or tavetana or a fishers? These are all species that have seen some captive success in breeding. Yet the breeders arent able to recoup costs because of pricing on wc imports.

 

[Texas Panther Man]

So true. Damn So Cal keepers get everything. lol j/k everyone

 

[lisa h]

Pssh, your in Cali. You guys and the Florida people get all the good stuff. All of us in the interior portion of the states get a fraction of the animals you guys see.

... and those here in Canada get even less. I would love to get a cbb cham, and I wouldn't be too picky about the species as long as I was able to meet the care and space requirements (ie not a veiled or panther). Anything I have ever gotten has been wc. I have never had surviving babies, and I have lost seemingly healthy adults too soon. Especially with pygmies (which I absolutely love), I sometimes get a few months out of one. I would pay whatever to get a cbb to support the breeder, and to know I'm getting a cham with a good start. Not some poor thing shipped thousands and thousands of miles in who knows what kind of conditions. At that, they are not cheap here anyways, but they are the only game in town