please help!

[fliver]

we've had frank our veiled chameleon for 9 months now
as of last week hes been acting rather strange
first we noticed him not eating very many crickets
only 2 or 3 would be gone a day
we figured there probably wasn't anything wrong since sometimes he'll go a day without eating but then pig out the next day
then he started eating less
so we knew something was up
hes also been keeping his head up, as high as he can, and sits around like that all day
the other day i noticed him opening his mouth and bobbing his head up and down
my boyfriend ordered hornworms and phoenix worms the week before he started acting weird
when they arrived, my boyfriend tried hand feeding him
and frank tried shooting his tongue but missed 3 times!
frank finally walked up to his hand and grabbed the worms with his mouth and ate them
i'm really scared for frank
has something like this ever happened to anyone
and does anyone know of a good reptile vet in the thumb of michigan??


cage type - 260 gallon reptarium
lighting - 2 18 inch reptisun 10.0 uvb lights without the plastic, one zoo med basking light
temp - around 75 during day 60s-70s at night, basking light is 90
humidity - stays around 45-50% we usually spray him 3x a day for around 3-6 mins each time. we also had to buy him a small humidifier.
plants - one large rubber tree plant (yes we know about the sap concerns), 2 jade plants, a few fake plant vines around the sides of the cage for more privacy, a few exo terra vines and some sticks that have the bark carved off. all have been washed with soapy water before we put them in
location - in front of a window, low traffic area
feeding - crickets supplemented with rep cal w/d3 (3x a week), miner all o (once a month), and herptivite (3x a month). we've also gotten him silkworms hornworms and phoenix worms

 

[Eric Adrignola]

When you say his head is up - do uyou mean pointed up? Does he make a popping sound when breathing? sounds like it coudl be an upper respiratory infection.

The feeding sounds about right. 2-3 insects per day is just fine for an adult male. If he's been eating more than that, he's likely overfed. hunger strikes happen with overfed chameleons all the time.

You've got all the right supplies, but not the right methods! Use the minerall 0 more often, and the repcal with D3 less so. I use repcal weekly, but only in a small amount on one cricket. You might be better off simply switching them - minerall 0 a few tmes a week, rep-cal 1-3 times a month.

The head bobbing could be a maturity thing - is it fast or slow?

 

[fliver]

yes he keeps his head pointed up almost all day and opens his mouth quite a bit but no sound
no it doesn't make a popping sound when hes breathing

he was eating about 6 or 7 a day everyother day then it went to 2 or 3
but the past 2 or 3 days he hasn't had any
i think it might be since he's having trouble getting insects with his tongue
and the crickets move around too much for him to go up to them and grab them with his mouth

thanks for the info about the supplements
we do only supplement a teeny pinch to a few of the crickets we put in his milk jug feeder not all of them

the head bobbing wasn't too slow but it wasn't super fast either?

 

[Chameleons Northwest]

Has he pooped recently?

Can you look into his throat, and do you see bubbles? We've seen the head up and mouth open done with chams that had respiratory infections and also with chams that had bacterial enteritis. The head up/mouth open sometimes seems to be in response to discomfort.

Follow Eric's advice.

If it continues I would take him to the vet.

However, if he hasn't pooped recently, he may be constipated or impacted.

 

[fliver]

the last time he pooped it was 2 days ago
you could tell that it was just one cricket

he got constipated/impacted 2 months ago and we gave him a tiny drop of pedialyte with his water
and hes been fine ever since...well till now

he hasn't been acting the same as he did when he was constipated/impacted
he didn't put his head up and he was still able to shoot his tongue

 

[fliver]

oh and i don't think i can see any bubbles

 

[fliver]

we just found a cricket gel in his poop yesterday
the kind from coastal silkworms
would this have anything to do with the problem?
hes still been acting strange

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[dectr6]

Way too much UVB. You only need one reptisun 5. This could very likely be causing an eye problem and causing him to miss his target. You should cut back on his d3 to once or twice a month IMO. Good luck and keep us updated. David

 

[dectr6]

You might also want to check a safe plant list also. I thought the jade was not safe but not positive about this.

 

[tburgcris]

safe plants

Jade is a safe plant. There r many safe plants that r not on the list. Baby tears is an awesome plant my veiled chows it up. There r many ferns that r good pampass grass, lavander, Japanese aralia, spider plants, chicks and hens, but the best by far is hibiscus, my veiled just loves it... Good luck with your cham since I haven't got a clue not the the rest of these pros. Listen to them they know their stuff. Chris...

 

[fliver]

the uvb lights are on opposite sides on the top of the cage
its a really big cage
they aren't close enough that he would be getting light from both at the same time
and its a reptarium so the mesh is quite dark
we were told to go with a 10.0 uvb from juilers
he doesn't seem to have a problem with his eyes at all
i know that if they can't see right with their eyes they can miss with their tongue
but i'm pretty sure its his mouth
when he opened it today it seemed like he had more saliva than usual
so i'm assuming mouth rot
but it could also be URI
how do chameleons contract mouth rot anyways?

& yea we made sure that the jade plants were okay

 

[Julirs]

First-how does he have access to cricket gel? How could he have eaten it to poop it?
Second-your UVB is fine on that large of a Reptarium and in only 18" sizes-my concern would be that you may want to switch the 18's out for 24" the next time you need to replace.
Third-the humidifier could be an issue with URI esp. if it is not kept extremely clean or ran too much.

 

[fliver]

we constructed one of those milk jug cricket feeders to keep in his cage
since he doesn't always eat all of the crickets we put in there
we put some food and a couple pieces of gel in there
we've been doing that for 8 months and hes never eaten the gel before
i'm assuming that he either tried to shoot a cricket and missed and got a gel
or might have tried to just go up and grab a cricket with his mouth and grabbed a gel instead (which would not be normal, he used to always just shoot the crickets)
i was kind of suprised that it didn't digest at all since it is gelatin

my boyfriend wants to get a hooded light that goes all the way across the top of the cage next time
what kind would you suggest getting?

i think the humidifier might be the problem
we didn't need it in the summer
but we had to get it for the winter
and we had to have it running all the time or else the humidity would be too low
how much should we be cleaning it? once a month or more like once a week?

i did a search the other day for reptile vets in the area
and i emailed a few of them to see if they take care of chameleons
so hopefully we can find one asap and take him in

 

[Julirs]

What is your humidity running at?

 

[fliver]

we have a small humidifier that runs on low
the humidity is at 45%

 

[fliver]

so we finally were able to take frank to the vet today
turns out he did have infectious stomatits (mouth rot)
and a swollen tongue
so we got some baytril and maloxicam
poor frank, he had a rough day

 

[dectr6]

Did the doc say if you caught it at an early stage? Good luck with him and keep us updated. David

 

[Kevin1873]

I would definitely have to agree with Dectr6 on taking out the second UVB bulb and just going with a 24" Reptisun 10.0 Bulb. It will be more than enough, even with the mesh. I have a mesh cage and I only use 1 Reptisun 5.0 bulb and its plenty. But then again a Chameleon cannot be over exposed to UVB through absorption, only through supplementation. A Chameleon will generally only use and process a certain amount of UVB that it needs from exposure to the sun or to the UVB bulb, but at 9 months I would definitely cut back on the D3 supplementation. I have a 4 month old Veiled and I won't use D3 more than 2 times a week and at 9 months I would probably only be using D3 2 times a month. But with 2 UVB bulbs and supplementing 3 times a week with D3 can be quite a bit for a 9 month old Chameleon. I know the damages are just as bad when it comes to over-supplementing and under-supplementing, that's why It's always said to just use a happy medium.

 

[fox3060]

Make sure that you keep Frank real quite for a little bit following up the vet visit. Stress can really inhibit their immune sys. and recovery time, as I found this out the hard way. I took a male Jacksonii into my (newly acquired) vet to trouble shoot some symptoms, he drew blood from the tail and ended up giving him a shot of antibiotics and 2 days later I ended up losing him.
Keep him happy!

 

[fliver]

She didn't say if we caught it at an early stage
he has only started showing signs a week ago
we have to give him .04 baytril for 21 days
and .02 maxolicam for 14 days

we're gunna go get a fixture for that 24" bulb
and take out the 18"s

the doc also recommended that we get regular calcium rather than the rep cal w/d3
so we went and bought some tonight
its fluker's repta - calcium
we'll be supplementing less too!