My New Nosy Girl! Eye Issues!

SoCaliSon

New Member
Well... My dreaded time has come... Everyone has to do it at least once...

Cage Info:
Cage Type - What kind of cage are you using? What is the size?
18x18x36 screen
Lighting - What kind of lighting are you using? How long do you keep the lights on during the day?
1x 12" Reptisun 5.0, and 60 watt basking, Lights on @ 7;30 am and off at 8 pm
Temperature - What temperature range have you created? Basking spot temp? What is the temperature at night?
90' Daytime Basking. 75' Ambient room temp avg ambient air temp in cage is around 82', 75' nightime ambient temp.
Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels?
Usually around 65% humdity maintained by 4-5 3min mistings daily
Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
Schefflera Arboricola Variegated
Location - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas?
In My Cham Room... No vents or high traffic. With the previous owner she was in a garage that I imagine got pretty hot. With only a lil dripper

Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon.
F. Pardalis (Panther), Female, Hatched Dec. '06
Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What kind of schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
She is primarily feeding on Silkies and Gutloaded supers... The gutload is the kind that comes in the Gummy like small green cubes, and says it is for gutloading all feeder insects.... I can't remember the brand name, I will post it when I get home.
Supplements - What are you dusting your feeders with and what kind of schedule do you use? Ca/d3 on one or two of the feeders 2wice a week... that is all I have given her so far.
Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? Do you see your chameleon drinking? I have a pressurized hand sprayer that she gets sprayed with warm water several times throughout the day, I have a feeling she had never been sprayed before because she freaks out when I spray her. I have seen her drinking off of the leaves once or twice, but normally it is several minutes after the spraying as she runs and hides when the mist comes.
Fecal Description - Only one I was able to find so far looked healthy,Urates were nice and white... but I have only seen one. I will check for more when I get home.[/COLOR]
History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you. I tried to include as much info as I could from the husbandry of the previous owner. I noticed one eye closed on her ride home.. .So I know the problem came from the old owner. The cage size was the same, but I could see that he was not consistently monitoring temps... and she was only provided with a lil dripper. He also had a plant that I took out as I was unsure of it. It has a long skinny leafless branchless stalk, that goes up to a palm like top. I brought her home 6/13/08.
Current Problem - The current problem that you are concerned about.

Eyes closed during the day... Sometimes one, Sometimes both, Right one more than the left. She hated to be misted... And freaks out when I take her in the shower. After her last shower the eye seemed to bother her more:confused:. I will work on getting a pic of this up when I get home tonight. At first when I noticed it, she was closing the right eye only, and had a small white speck on the brim of the eyelid... I kept hydrating her, and as I suspected this speck disapeared, I think it was old shed, But she still closes her eyes. I need to get this girl in tip top shape for her new man that is coming. What do you guys think??? I already spoke with a vet, but I came to you guys because i wasn't entirely thrilled with his advice(Get her natural sunlight and contiue to hydrate her) He seemed to think I could tackle this without going for serious treatment, but he hasn't seen her yet either. Welp... Lets hear it... I knew I would have to fill out one of these eventually... Can't wait to hear what you guys think. I am going to keep a close eye on her uh, eye...and see if I can tackle this one before it gets bad. Thanks in Advance Everyone!

~Joe
 

mika

New Member
What kind of supplements is she getting from the previous owner?

Who's gutloading with the gummy green stuff? You or the previous owner?
 

Ryan Jarosek

New Member
Your setup sounds good. I use the green cube stuff to gut load, but I also put in some oranges and mustard greens, cucumber and the occasional carrot.

Do you take her outside at all? That may help. A couple times a week for 2-3 hours each day. Probably early around 10 am before it gets too hot. (So Cal has been ridiculously hot) I don't need to tell you to mist regularly while she is out there, but I will put it in here for the sake of maybe someone new reading it.

I had this issue before one of my bulbs went out. I think I had a defective ballast using a reptisun bulb. I noticed his eyes closing then the bulb went out. Blew a fuse. I had to buy a new one and the problem went away.
 

Kent67

Retired Moderator
Sorry to have to do this to you Joe, but I haven't been able to pull this out in a while:


Seriously though, a pic of the eyes when opened and a pic to show general body condition could help a lot in determining how serious it is right now. Eye problems can be the result of nutritional deficiencies, irritation, infection, etc.... Something good to have on hand, though, is Bausch and Laumb's (sp?) Sterile Eye Wash. It is safe to use on chams and lubricates and helps clean the eye.
 

SoCaliSon

New Member
LOL!!! That is awesome Kent! Yes... I know... I was trying to do that last night, but didn't get a chance to post them. I actually had her outside in the sun yesterday afternoon for about 3 hours and took crazy pics the whole time... She Kept both eyes open almost the whole time. I will post them up tonight.
 

Geckoxp

Established Member
Joe -

I don't know how worried I would be with her. I have seen my own chams during the day shut there eyes occasionally...generally its because there may not be enough light from the outside shining in and they have been up real early in the morning...chams just like any other creature would tend to get tired once in a while.


BUT if you see the eye enlarged or you see it closed all the time or a discharge...then I would be a lot more concerned about her. I think what you did yesterday in having her outside and her showing no signs of issues shows you that there may be nothing to worry about.

Just keep an eye on it....
 

SoCaliSon

New Member
Thanks Guys...

All the research I have been doing on this is leading me to think she may have a Vit A definciency... I will get the pics up tonight. Along with some pics of her new BF Elwood!

Joe

Edit: As Promised... Here are some pics
This eye bothers me... She was puffing it and rubbing it on the branches which made it look worse... but the eye ball is black all the way through, I cannot make out the "golden ring" I guess, that looks like a pupil that is apparent in the other eye on the next shot. It looks like it may be covered with shadow.. but I examined it closely and that is what I saw.




Thanks Guys!!!
 
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ChameleonsTree

New Member
It could be a lot of things but im a firm believer in the fact she needs a lot more misting...this is how they clean their eyes. 30 minutes a day at least. Like i said it could be a lot of things so you need to show a pic so members can view her overall health.
 

Chameleon Company

Avid Member
And just how does this necessity to clean their eyes with 30 minutes of misting occur in their natural habitat ? Please explain the process in as much detail as you know of, to include frequency of Madagascar mist-cleaning opportunities, etc., what they do in the wild when the mist does not occur, etc. I will reserve further comment awaiting the explanation. Thanks.
 

mika

New Member
Jim,

I wanna say this quick cuz it's off topic. Your advise worked on my cham!

Thanks bunches! That's all.. Back to the topic :D
 

opihiman

New Member
I'm a no body, and I know next to nothing compared to every one else here, but....How was the trip to cham's new home at your place? Was the transport especially traumatic or long?

Since Cham just moved, your vet maybe waiting to see what happens after your cham settles in for a bit...(the waiting sucks)

Yup I am as much help as one legged man in and ass kicking contest.

-OPI

How is she doing today?
 

lbesok

Avid Member
Thanks Guys...

All the research I have been doing on this is leading me to think she may have a Vit A definciency... I will get the pics up tonight. Along with some pics of her new BF Elwood!

Joe
Joe, this was my thought precisely... From the description it sounds very similar to when our nosy Vega had vitamin A deficiency. Started with one eye, then went to both. Have you witnessed a decrease in appetite? Have you seen her bluge and squish the eyes?
For him showering helped a TUN. 30 min showers would have him drinking and opening his eyes, only for them to shortly close again after the shower.
Hopefully the pictures will help make a better determination...
IMNA shoot you a PM
 

SoCaliSon

New Member
Hey OPI,
It was about a 10 min car ride, she sat in a small cage on the passenger seat with a towel draped over to prevent her from seeing all the comotion outside her window. The Vet seemed to dismiss a lot once I mentioned that I had seen her eat a couple sillies and a super, made me uncomfortable... I would rather him overshoot with what all the problems may be... than down play the trouble she is having right now. A vet that says "Chameleons closing their eyes in while basking doesn't really bother me as long as they are eating"... doesn't make me feel comfortable... I have always known that to be a sign of stress... or a precurser symptom to some real headaches. I have done butt loads of research over the last 24hrs... I really have a feeling she is lacking some Vit A... (Just read Your post in my Email Ibesok... She is doing everything you are describing... Saw her bulging it and stuff during her shower last night).

No need to start a Vit A debate unless you guys really can't help yourselves:):rolleyes:... I am going to give her a tiny amount of Vit A and shower in the sun today when I get home, I'll let you know if this starts to help over the next few days.. Like I said...hang tight for the pics I will upload later this afternoon when I get home, I don't have them here with me. But from the pics you can tell... She seems to be in Top Knotch condition aside from closing her obvious discomfort and trouble she having with her eyes, But I did see a questionable poop yesterday... I will post that pic as well. When I went home for lunch just now to get her new BF in his cage... she was midway on her tree with her eyes closed... I checked everything, temps and stuff are right on... Bums me out to see her looking so bummed:(.


Thanks for the Help and Concern Guys!
We'll get her peepers better!

~Joe
 

spatulars

New Member
From your description of treatment, looks like she'll be well on her way to recovery. Good call on the Vit A. I wonder why a vet would assume that just because they know how to treat other reptiles, that they can treat chameleons without doing some research? If I were a vet I just wouldn't feel comfortable treating something that I hadn't at least done some current readings on. Maybe IVIS would have some good info for him, I don't know. It's terrible of him to say what he did because yes, she might be eating now, but if she does have a vit A deficiency and it goes without treatment, she could be much worse off in a week. Better to prevent a health-related hunger strike than have to treat one and nurse her through it, especially when she would be ready to get it on otherwise. I see where you're coming from now. If he saw that swelling and dismissed it just because she's eating, I would be wary as well.
 

dodolah

Retired Moderator
so, the black ring around the eyes is the symptom that make you think it's vit A deficiency?
I am curious to know.
 

SoCaliSon

New Member
Actually no... She had darkening around her eye in the pics I think cause she was rubbing them right before the shots. It is not present normally. I was talking about how dark the eye ball itself looks... lacking the pupil looking ring. I was led to Vit A simply by researching similar eye problems.. The way.. it seemed to be one eye..and then a few days later the other one... And now sometimes both. That and she has been leaving her food in the cup for the last 3 days, her appetite is going... I am not ruling anything out by any means... But from what I have learned...She is showing all the signs of being Vit A deficient, I figure if I can get her to turn around for me by adding some safe amounts of Vit A to her schedule, I might nip this in the butt. I am keeping a close eye, showering and sunning her daily.

~Joe
 

Kent67

Retired Moderator
Actually no... She had darkening around her eye in the pics I think cause she was rubbing them right before the shots. It is not present normally. I was talking about how dark the eye ball itself looks... lacking the pupil looking ring.
Hey Joe, (where you goin' with that gun in your hand?).... sorry, couldn't resist.

I don't like the sound of this and can see what you're talking about in the pics. The darkening of the eyelid skin is from rubbing the eye, and I really hope she hasn't damaged it. If the eyelid hasn't been moved out of place, which it doesn't appear to be (?), I'd be real concerned that some physical damage had been done to the eyeball itself and try to get her to a (different) vet. It doesn't look like there's any kind of matter over the eye, right? Just a dark orb under the eyelid?
 

SoCaliSon

New Member
Hey Joe, (where you goin' with that gun in your hand?).... sorry, couldn't resist.

I don't like the sound of this and can see what you're talking about in the pics. The darkening of the eyelid skin is from rubbing the eye, and I really hope she hasn't damaged it. If the eyelid hasn't been moved out of place, which it doesn't appear to be (?), I'd be real concerned that some physical damage had been done to the eyeball itself and try to get her to a (different) vet. It doesn't look like there's any kind of matter over the eye, right? Just a dark orb under the eyelid?

"I'm going down to find my old Lady! Caught her messing round with another man!" LOL... People asked me that for YEARS growing up and I had no idea what they were talking about until I gained a respect for good music in my teens. I thought they were just curious about my gun.:cool::rolleyes:

First an Update. I haven't had a chance to get any Vitamins in her yet accept for the Flukers Gut Load that was in the supers and crickets she ate yesterday. Yes she was eating! Last night when I got home I was impressed with how active she was. Both eyes were open and when I put her food in she started hunting. I also caught her drinking as well. The sunlight is definately helping.

Kent... That's right... You got what I was getting at. There is no Matter over the eye at all and when I was shooting the pics It did appear to be just a Black orb under the eyelid. Thing is, this is not the eye that has seemed to bother her the most, the other one is closed more frequently. During mistings and when she is rubbing and cleaning it is when I it stars to really look bad, and was the only time I noticed this darkness in her right eye.. I will observe tonight if it still looks the same. I am going to be interviewing a couple more vets today. I am hoping she keeps improving on her own like this...
 

Kent67

Retired Moderator
I may have missed it earlier in the thread but is she still reacting to stimuli from that eye?
 
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