Housing Chams together?

[mistikmaiden]

Okay, so my cousin's boyfriend has 2 veiled chameleons. They are both adults. One is a male and one is a female. He houses them together and they seem to be very happy like that. They are healthy and they have been like that for over a year. He put them together as adults, he said. How is that possible? I thought two chams together would kill each other?

 

[Elizadolots]

there are a bazillion variables...it's definitely not recommended. With a male and female, I don't think the fear is that they will kill each other, it's that the female will a) get fertilized b) get eggs and c) stress out so much she dies.

Is it possible his time sense is a bit off? Maybe what he reports as "a year" is, in fact, 5 or 6 months?

Is it possible that they are both female? Two females could live together in a big enough enclosure with a lot of visual barriers. They might still be stressed but they most likely would not kill each other.

 

[mistikmaiden]

Yeah it's been a year. He got the second one as a birthday present. And the one has spurs on his heels. I'm really confused. I've never seen Chams do that before.

 

[laurie]

Almost anything can be done. if it good to do? Most people would say no, and that includes me, but if it has been working for him over a year maybe he is just lucky. How big is the enclosure and is it very heavily planted?

 

[mistikmaiden]

No, it's not very heavily planted. It's a pretty good size cage. Not too too big though. I don't know the exact dimensions.

 

[Elizadolots]

Well...as Laurie says, maybe he's just lucky. The fact that it is working for him should not be a reason for new owners to see this thread and think "Oh, cool! I can just keep them in the same cage"....

 

[Julirs]

I bet there are plenty of people that keep chams together and think all is well. I also wonder what these same people attribute their chams death at an early age to. I bet it's not the fact they were housing them together.

Fact is that they will breed at an early age, and keep breeding. This causes undue stress on the female especially, since she cannot escape the male.

 

[pssh]

Julirs, you should read the thread about housing them together. Chris Anderson posted a link to another thread where many other very experienced chameleon owners housed the together. Apparently they can be vey calm and even like to hang out together when it's done right.

Though I doubt someone who isn't very experienced can tell when one or both animals are suffering...

 

[morpheon]

Pssh, could you find that link please? I'd like to read it.

There's also another thing that needs to be considered in housing chameleons together. Housing a few of the same gender seems to be easier and less dangerous/stressful than housing a couple together.

I also agree with what you said Pssh about non-experienced breeders probably can't tell if it's working properly or not.

 

[pssh]

Not housing males together! I think that would be worse. I'll see if I can find it, if I can't then I'm sure Chris Anderson would be willing to send you the link. I'll come back and edit my post.

Edit: http://www.captivebredreptileforums.co.uk/chameleons/6735-yemen-observations.html

 

[Julirs]

Yes-please find the link. As Eliza mentioned-there are a bazillion variables. Say you have a male that is completely uninterested in breeding-I am sure you could house him with a female with few complications. Two females in a big enough cage-you can probably do that. Mellers-you can often do that along with a few other species.

My post did not say never-I was speaking to a particular point.

However-there really isn't a "done right" situation. It truly depends on the animals as well as the logistics of housing, etc.

MOST people do not have the experience. So pssh-you are absolutely right-they will not know when the animals are suffering. They will not know what to look for.

It is also a FACT that housing breeding pairs will stress both animals, especially when they start breeding young. This is not the "wild"-and we cannot recreate those conditions in 18X18X36 screen cages.

 

[pssh]

I posted the link. Chris said that they lay less often and smaller clutches. I'm not sure how to get around the breeding young thing... I just know that Chris said I was wrong when I said that the continual breeding will stress them and shorten their life.

 

[morpheon]

Merci Pssh for the link.

And well said Juli!

 

[chamtrainer]

As long as the cage is big enough, you won't need to worry about housing more than one chameleon. However it is never recomended to house a male and female together. Vields especially because they get more aggressive than any other chameleon.

 

[Julirs]

As long as the cage is big enough, you won't need to worry about housing more than one chameleon. However it is never recomended to house a male and female together. Vields especially because they get more aggressive than any other chameleon.

Whoa-What are you basing this information on? This is a very broad, INCORRECT, and incomplete statement that can steer people very much in the wrong direction.

 

[ColeCham]

Hey, I know this is random,
but I have a quick couple of questions,
I just recently got a Panther Chameleon and he's 4 1/2 months old,
if I were to place a female with him would it be better at a younger age or when they are both of age to breed? also, how large should the cage be for a male and a female or a male and two females?

 

[Julirs]

Hey, I know this is random,
but I have a quick couple of questions,
I just recently got a Panther Chameleon and he's 4 1/2 months old,
if I were to place a female with him would it be better at a younger age or when they are both of age to breed? also, how large should the cage be for a male and a female or a male and two females?

Case in Point..

Welcome ColeCham. If this is your starting point with chams, you do not want to house any of them together. You need to gain experience in what to look for as far as stress and health decline. As a general rule, all chams are one to a cage. They do not congregate in nature, only coming together to breed.

 

[ColeCham]

okay thanks a lot! I've just seen many people talking about how they've housed chams or know people who have housed chams together. I'm just curious if it could ever work considering my cham is a friendly little guy.

 

[Carlton]

As long as the cage is big enough, you won't need to worry about housing more than one chameleon. However it is never recomended to house a male and female together. Vields especially because they get more aggressive than any other chameleon.

Sorry, not true. ANY individiual of almost any cham species can be just as aggressive. This is an old relict from the early days of cham keeping when veileds were about the only species people encountered. The nastiest chams I've had were a male fischeri and a male deremensis.

 

[Carlton]

okay thanks a lot! I've just seen many people talking about how they've housed chams or know people who have housed chams together. I'm just curious if it could ever work considering my cham is a friendly little guy.

Friendly to YOU doesn't mean anything in the cham world. He might be a terror to another cham if he's so secure as to be friendly to a potential large odd looking predator like a human. Actually, a wild cham that is too friendly or tolerant is going to be booted out of his territory by a more aggressive animal and guess who's going probably going to pass on his genes? The territorial one.

But, back to our scheduled program....chams in captivity. Housing chams together is a common discussion on forums. Experienced folks are reluctant to suggest housing them together because often it doesn't work at all. A newbie ends up with stressed sick, or injured chams who then need a lot of vet care if they survive at all. The safer message for beginners is...house them separately except to breed. Later, if that keeper becomes very knowledgeable and perceptive they can try shared housing on a case by case basis in very large setups. None of us can offer a full sized wild tree territory for our chams, and that is what they are conditioned to want.