Closed Eye/Cricket Strike

[JayAreKicks]

Chameleon Info:
Gamma is a 7-8 Month old male Veiled Chameleon.
He’s been in my care since 3/21/17.
Since I got him I’ve only handled him maybe once a month to clean his cage, he doesn’t like it.
I normally feed him about 10 calcium (with d3) dusted , med/lg crickets every day and a few hornworms and superworms weekly.
I mist him about 5-6 times from when he wakes up until he goes to sleep and also have a dripper going for most of the day.
His most recent droppings are of a normal consistency and the white part (forgot what its called) is white but a small tint of orange.
Cage Info:
Gamma’s cage is a 48”x24”x24” screen cage.
I put sheets on 3 sides of it to try and keep humidity up.
There are 2 basking spots. One of them is about 85 degrees and the other is about 90. The floor temp stays around 70 degrees. The 2 heat bulbs are 75w daylight bulbs and the UVB is an Exo Terra “ 13w Reptile UVB 100 (Tropical UVB)”.
the humidity seems to stay around 50-60% I have 2 hygrometers one inside the cage in the middle of it and one on top above where he sleeps.
There is a live Pothos plant in the bottom of the cage.
There are no vents, fans or heaters in the room that he’s in.
The room he is in has nobody but me in it 90% of the time and his cage is on the floor in the corner.
I live in Connecticut.

A few months back one of my daylight bulbs blew out so i replaced it with a red heat bulb for about 2 days and he started closing his left eye and rubbing his head on the branch. i switched back the the daylight bulb and he stopped for a little and has started doing it more now. Sometimes he wakes up and it stays closed until i mist him directly on his face. His left eye also looks a little sunken in and he still rubs his head on branches on the left side but when i mist him it puffs up. His right eye is big and round and looks the way it should (the left one looks just like it when he’s misted). He still is very active and I’ve seen him drink a few times off of some leaves and when i mist his head it drips into his mouth. Recently though he has stopped eating crickets. They just walked around and he watches them, but when i hold a hornworm or superworm in front of him he runs to it.

I guess my two main concerns I’m making this post about, are that he doesn’t want anything to do with crickets anymore and his left eye really seems to be bothering him. Any suggestions to help him out? Anything will be appreciated. Thanks!

Sorry for such a long post.


This is the best picture i could get of him to show the difference. He doesn't like my phone so he wont close the other eye while its it front of him.

 

[Katacara]

Could we get some pictures of his whole cage set up? His eye doesn't look good! Have you tried taking him out for a shower? I know you said that you only handle him about once a month, but it might really help!! That would be the least stressful first step. If he has something in his eye it will help him to flush it out, it will also help with hydration. I would give him a shower at least once a day, maybe even twice for the first few days. As for not eating, because he will still eat his worms it may be that he is just sick of crickets for right now, I would try a different staple feeder and see how that goes. If neither problem starts to get better in a few days it might be time for a vet visit. I hope your guy feels better soon!! Let me know how he is doing!

 

[JayAreKicks]

Could we get some pictures of his whole cage set up? His eye doesn't look good! Have you tried taking him out for a shower? I know you said that you only handle him about once a month, but it might really help!! That would be the least stressful first step. If he has something in his eye it will help him to flush it out, it will also help with hydration. I would give him a shower at least once a day, maybe even twice for the first few days. As for not eating, because he will still eat his worms it may be that he is just sick of crickets for right now, I would try a different staple feeder and see how that goes. If neither problem starts to get better in a few days it might be time for a vet visit. I hope your guy feels better soon!! Let me know how he is doing!

How do I shower him? And here's a picture of the enclosure.

 

[Katacara]

So showering is pretty simple, place a plant of some kind (plastic is ok for this purpose) in the shower, aim the shower head to the wall so it is not spraying directly on to you cham and plant. You want the water hitting the shower wall before landing on your cham. Make sure the water is not to hot, remember a chams skin is way more sensitive than ours, I wouldn't make it much more than slightly above room temp. Warm, but not hot!! Then add your cham, mix for 30-60 min each shower

If you think showering will be too much stress you can also mist for much longer. Are you hand misting or are you using a system? How long are your current misting sessions?

You may want a few more opinions (because I'm not 100% about this) but I would also take out one of your basking spots!

Your vines and branches look great, but you need some more live greenery, his cage is looking very bare!

 

[carol5208]

Are you not using a multivitamin with Vitamin A in it? He may have a vitamin A deficiency which can cause this. Also, you should not be using d3 daily. Calcium with no d3 and the one with d3 two or three times a month. Please read the following info. This was taken off Chameleon Company website inregards to vitamin A deficiency problems.
Possible Vitamin A Deficiency in Panther Chameleons, Symptoms and Solutions
Vitamin A deficiency is a common malady in LTC (Long-Term-Captive) Panther chameleons, either with WC (Wild Caught) or CB (Captive Born) origins. This stems from the chameleon's inability to synthesize real Vitamin A from common precursors, such as beta-carotene. This can be confusing when evaluating supplements, as many dry supplements list Vitamin A content, but only as the precursor, beta-carotene, and not as “pre-formed”, or in essence, real Vitamin A.
While lack of Vitamin A effects many aspects of chameleon health, the usual first observed symptom is the appearance of an unexplained eye irritation, manifested in difficulties in keeping first one eye open, and after a few days, both eyes are affected. In most cases, the eyes will not appear sunken, or in any other way mis-shaped initially, although secondary problems, such as an infection, can follow. The usual initial observation is that it is causing irritation to the chameleon, and that it can't keep the eye open as normal. It occurs more often in larger animals, but sometimes occurs in larger juveniles. In select cases the eye may appear as swollen. Successfully hatched chameleons seem to be born with a supply of Vitamin A, an essential ingredient for successful embryonic development, and fresh WC’s seem to be imported with a supply. Mother Nature seems able to provide this vitamin without problem. Without some real vitamin A in their diet, these stores will deplete. It is a difficult vitamin for the hobbyist to gut-load via crickets and insects though, and such attempts are usually ineffective in our experience.
Vitamin A is a fat soluble vitamin, as is Vitamin E. It is most commonly sold in gel caps, with each gel cap containing approximately three drops of an oil solvent. It is available on-line from many suppliers, or is sold in most vitamin and health stores. The most common, and consensus most effective form of vitamin A, is a compound known as retinal palmitate. It is a common human food supplement as well. Depending on manufacturer, gel caps may contain 2000-25,000 iu’s (intravenous units) per gel cap. Read the label to insure you are buying a product with retinal palmitate as the Vitamin A. The solvent may be fish oil, which outside of its odor, is OK.
You can usually find an adequate source at such as a GNC store. When looking online, here’s a link: http://www.carlsonlabs.com/p-27-vitamin-a-palmitate-15000-iu.aspx
However, if the link has expired, google “Vitamin A Carlson Laboratories” and you should find many product options.
One other form of Vitamin A can also be available as the compound retinal acetate, which is synthetically produced vitamin A. While not as effective as retinal palmitate, the acetate version is more easily crystalized, and then included in some dry products, such as the ZooMed vitamin powder marketed as Reptivite.
Vitamin A is toxic in large quantities. As you are dealing with an oil, a strong word of caution as well. Chameleons have an extreme dislike for almost any measurable quantity of oil introduced into their mouth. While inexact, usually a negative reaction starts to become likely to occur if a quantity of oil ½ drop or greater is introduced into an adult chameleon’s mouth, and is virtually guaranteed with 2 or more drops. This can induce vomiting and inhalation of the oil, possibly death. Fortunately, the amount of oil (and vitamin A) needed to effectively dose a chameleon is usually less than 1/20th of a drop. Again, an inexact science, but depending upon the concentration of the Vitamin A in the oil, your goal is to deliver a dose that contains approximately 100 iu’s per 50g of chameleon. An exceedingly rough estimate would be 1/20th of a drop of the oil in an average adult female panther chameleon. There is a reasonable margin for error. This can administered by puncturing one or more gel caps, and wetting a Q-tip with the oil, so that is is wet, but not dripping. You can then grab the chameleon behind the head, and when it says “Ahhhh”, touch the Q-tip to its inner gum, etc. It will likely chomp down, then let go of the Q-tip once released itself. Or, if you are able to hand-feed, swab the back of a cricket or such with a smear of the oil, and then coax your chameleon into eating it.
As a rule, we recommend this treatment to all adult chameleons once every two weeks. If an animal is showing symptoms of Vitamin A deficiency, such as eye closing with no other apparent malady, we recommend the dose daily for five days, then once every two weeks. In such cases where Vitamin A deficiency is the problem, and it is caught early, the eyes usually improve on the third or fourth day. In animals where treatment has been delayed, improvement can take up to 2-3 weeks, except in cases where the treatment has been delayed too long and become beyond repair.
The above criteria were developed working closely with Dr. Ivan Alfonso, an Orlando area verterinarian with considerable experience in chameleons. Further support for our findings can be found at this link, where Dr Gary Ferguson relates his experiences with this issue : http://chamworld.blogspot.com/2008/03/chat-with-dr-gary-w-ferguson.html

 

[JayAreKicks]

So showering is pretty simple, place a plant of some kind (plastic is ok for this purpose) in the shower, aim the shower head to the wall so it is not spraying directly on to you cham and plant. You want the water hitting the shower wall before landing on your cham. Make sure the water is not to hot, remember a chams skin is way more sensitive than ours, I wouldn't make it much more than slightly above room temp. Warm, but not hot!! Then add your cham, mix for 30-60 min each shower

If you think showering will be too much stress you can also mist for much longer. Are you hand misting or are you using a system? How long are your current misting sessions?

You may want a few more opinions (because I'm not 100% about this) but I would also take out one of your basking spots!

Your vines and branches look great, but you need some more live greenery, his cage is looking very bare!

I'm going to try the shower right now and see how he reacts. I hand mist him for about 3 minutes 5-6 times a day.

 

[JayAreKicks]

Are you not using a multivitamin with Vitamin A in it? He may have a vitamin A deficiency which can cause this. Also, you should not be using d3 daily. Calcium with no d3 and the one with d3 two or three times a month. Please read the following info. This was taken off Chameleon Company website inregards to vitamin A deficiency problems.
Possible Vitamin A Deficiency in Panther Chameleons, Symptoms and Solutions
Vitamin A deficiency is a common malady in LTC (Long-Term-Captive) Panther chameleons, either with WC (Wild Caught) or CB (Captive Born) origins. This stems from the chameleon's inability to synthesize real Vitamin A from common precursors, such as beta-carotene. This can be confusing when evaluating supplements, as many dry supplements list Vitamin A content, but only as the precursor, beta-carotene, and not as “pre-formed”, or in essence, real Vitamin A.
While lack of Vitamin A effects many aspects of chameleon health, the usual first observed symptom is the appearance of an unexplained eye irritation, manifested in difficulties in keeping first one eye open, and after a few days, both eyes are affected. In most cases, the eyes will not appear sunken, or in any other way mis-shaped initially, although secondary problems, such as an infection, can follow. The usual initial observation is that it is causing irritation to the chameleon, and that it can't keep the eye open as normal. It occurs more often in larger animals, but sometimes occurs in larger juveniles. In select cases the eye may appear as swollen. Successfully hatched chameleons seem to be born with a supply of Vitamin A, an essential ingredient for successful embryonic development, and fresh WC’s seem to be imported with a supply. Mother Nature seems able to provide this vitamin without problem. Without some real vitamin A in their diet, these stores will deplete. It is a difficult vitamin for the hobbyist to gut-load via crickets and insects though, and such attempts are usually ineffective in our experience.
Vitamin A is a fat soluble vitamin, as is Vitamin E. It is most commonly sold in gel caps, with each gel cap containing approximately three drops of an oil solvent. It is available on-line from many suppliers, or is sold in most vitamin and health stores. The most common, and consensus most effective form of vitamin A, is a compound known as retinal palmitate. It is a common human food supplement as well. Depending on manufacturer, gel caps may contain 2000-25,000 iu’s (intravenous units) per gel cap. Read the label to insure you are buying a product with retinal palmitate as the Vitamin A. The solvent may be fish oil, which outside of its odor, is OK.
You can usually find an adequate source at such as a GNC store. When looking online, here’s a link: http://www.carlsonlabs.com/p-27-vitamin-a-palmitate-15000-iu.aspx
However, if the link has expired, google “Vitamin A Carlson Laboratories” and you should find many product options.
One other form of Vitamin A can also be available as the compound retinal acetate, which is synthetically produced vitamin A. While not as effective as retinal palmitate, the acetate version is more easily crystalized, and then included in some dry products, such as the ZooMed vitamin powder marketed as Reptivite.
Vitamin A is toxic in large quantities. As you are dealing with an oil, a strong word of caution as well. Chameleons have an extreme dislike for almost any measurable quantity of oil introduced into their mouth. While inexact, usually a negative reaction starts to become likely to occur if a quantity of oil ½ drop or greater is introduced into an adult chameleon’s mouth, and is virtually guaranteed with 2 or more drops. This can induce vomiting and inhalation of the oil, possibly death. Fortunately, the amount of oil (and vitamin A) needed to effectively dose a chameleon is usually less than 1/20th of a drop. Again, an inexact science, but depending upon the concentration of the Vitamin A in the oil, your goal is to deliver a dose that contains approximately 100 iu’s per 50g of chameleon. An exceedingly rough estimate would be 1/20th of a drop of the oil in an average adult female panther chameleon. There is a reasonable margin for error. This can administered by puncturing one or more gel caps, and wetting a Q-tip with the oil, so that is is wet, but not dripping. You can then grab the chameleon behind the head, and when it says “Ahhhh”, touch the Q-tip to its inner gum, etc. It will likely chomp down, then let go of the Q-tip once released itself. Or, if you are able to hand-feed, swab the back of a cricket or such with a smear of the oil, and then coax your chameleon into eating it.
As a rule, we recommend this treatment to all adult chameleons once every two weeks. If an animal is showing symptoms of Vitamin A deficiency, such as eye closing with no other apparent malady, we recommend the dose daily for five days, then once every two weeks. In such cases where Vitamin A deficiency is the problem, and it is caught early, the eyes usually improve on the third or fourth day. In animals where treatment has been delayed, improvement can take up to 2-3 weeks, except in cases where the treatment has been delayed too long and become beyond repair.
The above criteria were developed working closely with Dr. Ivan Alfonso, an Orlando area verterinarian with considerable experience in chameleons. Further support for our findings can be found at this link, where Dr Gary Ferguson relates his experiences with this issue : http://chamworld.blogspot.com/2008/03/chat-with-dr-gary-w-ferguson.html

I do use a multivitamin but I just checked and it doesn't have vitamin A in it. I'm kind of scared to try the method of puncturing a gelcap and feeding it to him. The issue does sound a lot like it could be that though. Is there any other safer way to give him the Vitamin A without having so many risks?

 

[JayAreKicks]

I'm going to try the shower right now and see how he reacts. I hand mist him for about 3 minutes 5-6 times a day.

Quick update, just finished his shower. He hated it, wouldn't stay in his tree and decided to take my arm in the shower with him and that's how he chose to shower for 40 minutes. He's back in his enclosure and looks a little on edge still. His eye is closed again and was for most of the shower. I'm going try a couple more times with him in the shower but if he still responds the same way I'll just mist him directly for about the same amount of time.

 

[JayAreKicks]

Quick update, just finished his shower. He hated it, wouldn't stay in his tree and decided to take my arm in the shower with him and that's how he chose to shower for 40 minutes. He's back in his enclosure and looks a little on edge still. His eye is closed again and was for most of the shower. I'm going try a couple more times with him in the shower but if he still responds the same way I'll just mist him directly for about the same amount of time.

He also hasn't eaten since he woke up. I tried a super worm and he closed both eyes, heading out now to pick up some hornworms.

 

[kinyonga]

We usually recommend only dusting twice a month with a phosphorous-free calcium/D3 powder and at almost every feeding with a phosphorous-free calcium powder... and twice a month with a vitamin powder.
If you've given him too much D3 he might need so e vitamin A to balance it....but prEformed vitamin isn't something to fool!around with...so be careful that you don't give him too much.

 

[JayAreKicks]

We usually recommend only dusting twice a month with a phosphorous-free calcium/D3 powder and at almost every feeding with a phosphorous-free calcium powder... and twice a month with a vitamin powder.
If you've given him too much D3 he might need so e vitamin A to balance it....but prEformed vitamin isn't something to fool!around with...so be careful that you don't give him too much.

Ok I didn't realize the d3 wasn't supposed to be so often. I just got some vitamin a drops to put on some of his food, it said 2 drops per 50g I tried to weigh him and he wouldn't stay still, but I'm pretty sure the closest I got was that he's about 100 grams in gonna give him 3 drops today on a hornworm just incase it was off by a little. I'm hoping everything clears up soon if not I'll be going to a vet soon. I also got a phosphorus-free calcium powder with no d3 that I'll be using daily as long as I can get him to eat.

 

[kinyonga]

The vitamin powder I use is a powder too. What's in your vitamin powder regarding vitamin A and D3? Is the vitamin A beta carotene or retinol?

 

[jajeanpierre]

I do use a multivitamin but I just checked and it doesn't have vitamin A in it. I'm kind of scared to try the method of puncturing a gelcap and feeding it to him. The issue does sound a lot like it could be that though. Is there any other safer way to give him the Vitamin A without having so many risks?

I hand feed a feeder bug that has Vitamin A from a gel cap dropped on it. I use one "drop" from an 8000 IU gel cap once or twice a month. It is inexact, but it seems to work. I have not found my chameleons to mind eating an oil-covered bug. My collection is mostly wild caughts, so sometimes I have to manipulate their hunger to get them to eat from my hand. I try to use something like a green banana roach because it is so appetizing to them. The Vitamin A will kill the bug quite quickly.

It will take a lot of overdose a chameleon. An overdose presents as sloughing off of the skin like a blistering burn. In studies, they found that injectable (water soluble) was much more quickly absorbed and at the same doses injectable Vitamin A caused overdoes while oral Vitamin A in oil did not. The studies only lasted two weeks so the researchers were not sure if the animals given the high doses of oral (oil) Vitamin A would have developed signed of an overdose if the study had lasted longer.

@carol5208 Slight correction: IU means International Unit, not intravenous unit. I agree with the author of your article that aspirating oil is a real risk. I would not give Vitamin A dropped directly into the mouth. I let them eat naturally, so they will not accidentally inhale some oil. Oil in the lungs is really really really bad.