Civility and good will

jamest0o0

Chameleon Enthusiast
Hey guys, I love yinz, but you're wrong. It is not a rescue if you buy from big box stores.

Emotion vs logic

Aside from the stories of your wonderful chams that you got from Petco, the solid concrete no emotions attached fact of the matter is that they're seeing a sale and replacing with more. So okay maybe we can agree, you rescued 1, but doomed a few more?

Please if we're going to discuss this, save me the background stories and stick to the facts of how the business is run.

@Kristen Wilkins I agree though on that thread it wasn't the main issue and it should have been looked past.

And don't get me wrong all, I've bought from Petco before too! I have no problem with it happening, it was an accident and we wouldn't do it again. I guess we can call it a rescue if we want to take the good with the bad and admit we probably added to a few more being doomed.
 

jamest0o0

Chameleon Enthusiast
This idea that they're too big to make a change with is the same logic of saying too many people are stupid to change their minds into being educated.

I wouldn't support an evil organization just because I was too small to stop it.

Once again, I'm not going after anyone who bought from Petco, I've probably bought more from them than anyone on this thread lol so I'm guilty. Let's just put our egos aside and say, 'well I appreciate the animal that came out of them, it would be a mistake to do it again':)
 

AnamCara

Chameleon Enthusiast
Genuine question here:

You buy the chameleon and come here and learn good husbandry -- it lives, big-box replaces the chameleon.

You don't buy the chameleon, it dies. they replace it with another -- that dies too.

Yes, Petco and Petsmart should stop carrying them -- or do WAY more intenseive husbandry training for it's "handlers" (and that can be said for all their animals -- hamsters need a minimum of 40 square inches of floor space and 6 inches of burrowing space and they sell those tiny freaking wire cages...) I don't see a future where enough backlash comes that they stop carrying them. These are not cute puppies or kitties that massive amounts of people find adorable. I agree -- that its a purchase. But I see chameleons dying, either way, to be honest.

Full disclosure -- I got Mona from petco. Not impulse, but not a thoroughly researched purchase either. Not my proudest moment, and I will always go breeder going forward, but I am pretty confident I took her from a sure death sentence.
 

jamest0o0

Chameleon Enthusiast
Genuine question here:

You buy the chameleon and come here and learn good husbandry -- it lives, big-box replaces the chameleon.

You don't buy the chameleon, it dies. they replace it with another -- that dies too.

Yes, Petco and Petsmart should stop carrying them -- or do WAY more intenseive husbandry training for it's "handlers" (and that can be said for all their animals -- hamsters need a minimum of 40 square inches of floor space and 6 inches of burrowing space and they sell those tiny freaking wire cages...) I don't see a future where enough backlash comes that they stop carrying them. These are not cute puppies or kitties that massive amounts of people find adorable. I agree -- that its a purchase. But I see chameleons dying, either way, to be honest.

Full disclosure -- I got Mona from petco. Not impulse, but not a thoroughly researched purchase either. Not my proudest moment, and I will always go breeder going forward, but I am pretty confident I took her from a sure death sentence.
See my above threads.

One thing I notice about people that somewhat defend buying from these stores they mostly fit this:

1) Have bought from Petco, good old ego defense
2) Make sure to attach emotion and emphasize their baby <insert name here>

Pull up some info on the business, maybe I'm wrong and if so I'd admit to it, but please leave the other stuff out, it does nothing except for pull on people's heart strings. Which is cheating lol.
 

Kristen Wilkins

Chameleon Enthusiast
Genuine question here:

You buy the chameleon and come here and learn good husbandry -- it lives, big-box replaces the chameleon.

You don't buy the chameleon, it dies. they replace it with another -- that dies too.

Yes, Petco and Petsmart should stop carrying them -- or do WAY more intenseive husbandry training for it's "handlers" (and that can be said for all their animals -- hamsters need a minimum of 40 square inches of floor space and 6 inches of burrowing space and they sell those tiny freaking wire cages...) I don't see a future where enough backlash comes that they stop carrying them. These are not cute puppies or kitties that massive amounts of people find adorable. I agree -- that its a purchase. But I see chameleons dying, either way, to be honest.

Full disclosure -- I got Mona from petco. Not impulse, but not a thoroughly researched purchase either. Not my proudest moment, and I will always go breeder going forward, but I am pretty confident I took her from a sure death sentence.
It’s just not classified as a rescue if it’s paid for . Op sounds to be willing to do what’s needed even if chameleon only lives a short time . The life will be better with her indeed but no it’s not a rescue .
 

JacksJill

Chameleon Enthusiast
You probably saved her life no doubt and you didn't know what happens back then. It was an honest impulse. I don't think there is anything wrong with educating people to the backlash to chameleons from buying at the big box stores. It should just be done gently.
No one was born knowing any of this stuff. We all have more to learn.
At this point we are just debating terminology not outcome.
 

hilizanne

Member
New member here. I did plenty of research for one year before buying a chameleon, and still found it inadequate , despite multiple I think reputable websites (much ado about chameleons was one) and recommended books. I admit to perusing articles here for years prior to posting anything, because due to my experience on other forums (dendroboard especially) things can get harsh pretty quickly. I really knew I was putting myself out there for criticism when I finally put out my first (and only but very long) post.

Things I have learned: there are still differing opinions on many details of chameleon care. This makes it harder for any non-expert like myself honestly trying to do the right thing. Also, sometimes there is a normal human reaction to turn one’s frustration about the inability to have the answer around on the OP. I am a physician and I have noticed this tendency in doctors as well. If we can’t figure out the answer, it must be the patient’s fault. Its a defense mechanism. I find just being aware of this helps me (hopefully) to never do it.

Anyway, just my 2 cents. I have found this forum to be helpful and I will continue to come back despite my feelings getting hurt once, which may have been exacerbated by months of worry and emotional attachment to my chameleon, and my desparate situation (left without any help from vets).
 

AnamCara

Chameleon Enthusiast
See my above threads.

One thing I notice about people that somewhat defend buying from these stores they all:

1)have bought from Petco, good old ego defense
2) Make sure to attach emotion and emphasize their baby <insert name here>

Pull up some info on the business, maybe I'm wrong, but please leave the other stuff out, it does nothing except for pull on people's heart strings which is cheating lol.
It’s just not classified as a rescue if it’s paid for . Op sounds to be willing to do what’s needed even if chameleon only lives a short time . The life will be better with her indeed but no it’s not a rescue .
I was not trying to defend, and I agreed it was not a rescue. I made a mistake in where I purchased and was/am happy to learn from this forum.
 

jamest0o0

Chameleon Enthusiast
I'm not going to argue though. If someone has real information, they can send it to me. I can see this discussion going bad, on a thread about civility lmao. I mean no offense to anyone, just calling it how it is. I feel a little strongly on this subject and I know others have a lot of emotion tied into their animals. So I'll step aside. At the end of the day, we're all here for the right reasons and I know anyone here wouldn't go back and buy more from Petco so what's it really matter. I just don't like to even remotely defend them after what I've seen at stores here.
 

jamest0o0

Chameleon Enthusiast
I was not trying to defend, and I agreed it was not a rescue. I made a mistake in where I purchased and was/am happy to learn from this forum.
I got ya, I think like jacksjill said... we more or less all feel the same way, just different terminology. I get the feeling of looking at your cham you got from Petco and being so thankful for it. I really do and mean no offense by anything I said. Was just being blunt with my wording.
 

Kristen Wilkins

Chameleon Enthusiast
Hey guys, I love yinz, but you're wrong. It is not a rescue if you buy from big box stores.

Emotion vs logic

Aside from the stories of your wonderful chams that you got from Petco, the solid concrete no emotions attached fact of the matter is that they're seeing a sale and replacing with more. So okay maybe we can agree, you rescued 1, but doomed a few more?

Please if we're going to discuss this, save me the background stories and stick to the facts of how the business is run.

@Kristen Wilkins I agree though on that thread it wasn't the main issue and it should have been looked past.

And don't get me wrong all, I've bought from Petco before too! I have no problem with it happening, it was an accident and we wouldn't do it again. I guess we can call it a rescue if we want to take the good with the bad and admit we probably added to a few more being doomed.

Well France’s story was not wonderful as you know . We did the best we could for her and loved her soooooo very much however she was not a rescue . The emotions definitely took over however the sec the boys walked through the door with her she should have been brought back . Me being me could never do that . She most definitely would have died . I do not regret having her . I met all you because of her . I learned How to care for a very sick chameleon because of her . I do not walk through there doors however because I can’t .
 

Kristen Wilkins

Chameleon Enthusiast
I was not trying to defend, and I agreed it was not a rescue. I made a mistake in where I purchased and was/am happy to learn from this forum.
Oh love France’s came from Petsmart . She was a very very sick girl her whole life . For her I would do it a billion times over no question . It’s not logical it’s all heart I completely admit that .
 

Decadancin

Moderatoris Americanus
Staff member
So I consider my veiled Petco brat a "rescue". It was definitely an impulse but and I was not prepared for the learning and supplies and research I needed to do. But I got ready fast...

Zaphod wasn't rescued from Petco, but from the visible stress being caused by a much larger male in the same small box. I removed him from that environment. Yes, they replaced him with another soon after, I'm sure, but it was my purchase that led me to find this community.

I knew that I would have to learn a lot and I didn't ignore the advice I received. Bottom line is a few rude or blunt comments then could have turned me off from the site and who knows. It just isn't OK to act like that and to justify it for any reasons.
 

nightanole

Chameleon Enthusiast
You dont buy a car from the parts store. You look at the want ads bulletin board at check out
You dont buy a pet from the pet store. You look at the want ads bulletin board at check out

It really doesnt matter if the pet has hair,feathers, or scales, it really shouldnt be at the pet shop.

Id say the unhealthiest dogs are the ones you buy from the mall petshops.
 

jamest0o0

Chameleon Enthusiast
So I consider my veiled Petco brat a "rescue". It was definitely an impulse but and I was not prepared for the learning and supplies and research I needed to do. But I got ready fast...

Zaphod wasn't rescued from Petco, but from the visible stress being caused by a much larger male in the same small box. I removed him from that environment. Yes, they replaced him with another soon after, I'm sure, but it was my purchase that led me to find this community.

I knew that I would have to learn a lot and I didn't ignore the advice I received. Bottom line is a few rude or blunt comments then could have turned me off from the site and who knows. It just isn't OK to act like that and to justify it for any reasons.
Not sure if you mean me? I never went after anyone for buying from them.
 
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