The High Prices of The New Madagascar Quotas Chameleon Species?

[Motherlode Chameleon]

I don't know about you but I'm glad I'm not the one that got the ban lifted,
If you are the reason quotas where reinstated Jeremy you could be responsible for the death of thousands of chameleons. I sure hope your breeding programs can make up for the loss

Steven

I contributed to new conservative quotas not thousands and of non threatened species. However if a species becomes threatened they may be removed from the quota list. It was time that some Non Threatened Calumma species were added to the list. I would rather have new quotas done properly than have people go the black market route for some Calumma species. We have to continue with Madagascar forest conservation, stability of the Malagasy government, and stop the under the radar imports of non quota species. That problem does not change.

Best Regards
Jeremy A. Rich

 

[NHenn]

The prices of these Madagascar Chameleons has begun to drop. Conservation wise and hobby wise I have got my digits crossed that the prices stay high. 1) That they shall hold a high value in their home country plus they are worth it and 2) That buyers are going to seriously consider buying these more difficult to keep (winter period) and breed Eastern Forest species before buying these species.

Jeremy, I think you are completely off base with this and I assume it is because you don't work with wild caught species or at least in any significant numbers. All the high prices are doing is forcing the importers to sit on their animals for months in poor husbandry conditions until they finally decided to take a loss on the animal before they die under their care and sell the chameleon for it to show up dead or to die days later. I've experienced this first hand way too many times and it sucks for the importer as they are losing money, it sucks for the customer as they are really losing money and it sucks for the chameleon as it is losing it's life for nothing but greed.

I can tell you that if the petteri that first came in were not listed at $1400 a pair and were actually for sale at what they should be ($400-500 a pair imo) that they would still be alive today or at least a lot more of them would be because it wouldn't have taken 3-4 months to resell the animals and they would have been in the hands of breeders and hobbiest who are trying to work with them. By crossing your digits in hopes of high prices you are only condemning these animals to die in the hands of imports or the FedEx delivery man.

 

[frankpayne32]

Jeremy, I think you are completely off base with this and I assume it is because you don't work with wild caught species or at least in any significant numbers. All the high prices are doing is forcing the importers to sit on their animals for months in poor husbandry conditions until they finally decided to take a loss on the animal before they die under their care and sell the chameleon for it to show up dead or to die days later. I've experienced this first hand way too many times and it sucks for the importer as they are losing money, it sucks for the customer as they are really losing money and it sucks for the chameleon as it is losing it's life for nothing but greed.

I can tell you that if the petteri that first came in were not listed at $1400 a pair and were actually for sale at what they should be ($400-500 a pair imo) that they would still be alive today or at least a lot more of them would be because it wouldn't have taken 3-4 months to resell the animals and they would have been in the hands of breeders and hobbiest who are trying to work with them. By crossing your digits in hopes of high prices you are only condemning these animals to die in the hands of imports or the FedEx delivery man.

You're absolutely right Nick. All you have to do is look on Kingsnake and see how long some of these expensive new imports are sitting at the importers and distributors in subpar conditions. It's upsetting because the average keeper (like me) just can't afford these exorbitant prices for a WC chameleon and they end up languishing before being sold, if ever. I'm hopeful that if these limited quotas continue in the coming years that they go for more realistic prices so these animals can get into the hands of people who know what they are doing. A solid mid-range price like you said of $400-500/pair would allow the average serious keeper to work with them while also reducing the number of impulse purchases by inexperienced keepers.

 

[Motherlode Chameleon]

Jeremy, I think you are completely off base with this and I assume it is because you don't work with wild caught species or at least in any significant numbers. All the high prices are doing is forcing the importers to sit on their animals for months in poor husbandry conditions until they finally decided to take a loss on the animal before they die under their care and sell the chameleon for it to show up dead or to die days later. I've experienced this first hand way too many times and it sucks for the importer as they are losing money, it sucks for the customer as they are really losing money and it sucks for the chameleon as it is losing it's life for nothing but greed.

I can tell you that if the petteri that first came in were not listed at $1400 a pair and were actually for sale at what they should be ($400-500 a pair imo) that they would still be alive today or at least a lot more of them would be because it wouldn't have taken 3-4 months to resell the animals and they would have been in the hands of breeders and hobbiest who are trying to work with them. By crossing your digits in hopes of high prices you are only condemning these animals to die in the hands of imports or the FedEx delivery man.

You're absolutely right Nick. All you have to do is look on Kingsnake and see how long some of these expensive new imports are sitting at the importers and distributors in subpar conditions. It's upsetting because the average keeper (like me) just can't afford these exorbitant prices for a WC chameleon and they end up languishing before being sold, if ever. I'm hopeful that if these limited quotas continue in the coming years that they go for more realistic prices so these animals can get into the hands of people who know what they are doing. A solid mid-range price like you said of $400-500/pair would allow the average serious keeper to work with them while also reducing the number of impulse purchases by inexperienced keepers.

Nick

That is what I have stated and have been attempting to state in this thread. I stated earlier that the initial prices would start super high from the demand of these species not being seen for the first time since 1995 or 17-19 years. However after the initial imports the price would drop.

I am good with a price range of $500-650 a pair for Furcifer willsii. However I think Calumma parsonii parsonii and Calumma oshaughnessyi should be retail sold at $4000.00 and $1500.00 a pair. The high prices stops mass/dime a dozen exports and a lot of wasteful killing of chameleons as seen before the ban, lesson learned (no Parsonii should not be retailed at $100.00), allow breeders to supply the rest. These high prices (I am calling $500-650 for Furcifer willsii a pair high priced) should stop excessive imports and non proper husbandry from importers and wholesalers (if not wholesalers have got largest losses). Frank we are only seeing on Kingsnake 2-4 pairs being sold at a time that is not an excessive amount of pairs. Before the imports people were bringing in 10- 20 pairs of Parsonii for some importers at one time all of which were kept in an over sized enclosure sometime fit for only 2 or 3 adult Parsonii. This arrangement that is happening now is much more ideal. However this only works if the chameleons are imported in A grade condition. Malagasy chameleons have got the best chance of being kept in grade A or best condition if they are worth the most to the exporters.

Who ever said I never buy wild caught chameleons? I look for captive bred first does not mean I do not buy wild caught chameleons. I paid top dollar for my wild caught Furcifer willsii,Calumma brevicorne and captive bred Calumma parsonii parsonii.

Best Regards
Jeremy A. Rich

 

[ataraxia]

High prices, low prices...90% of these animals are doomed either way. It is what it is...

 

[OldChamKeeper]

High prices, low prices...90% of these animals are doomed either way. It is what it is...

Agreed.


At $2000 apiece the imported Parsons are never going to get into the hands of enough qualified people to really establish them.

 

[Motherlode Chameleon]

High prices, low prices...90% of these animals are doomed either way. It is what it is...

Agreed.


At $2000 apiece the imported Parsons are never going to get into the hands of enough qualified people to really establish them.

A bit cynical. Give these conservative quotas more than a year or two to happen then say what we think of it if they are going to work out or not. Anything else is premature.

We have 3 captive bred lines of Orange Eyes hatching now this year and more on the way, a resource such as the Chameleon Forums with motivated people and we have not got enough qualified people? I think in the end we won't be short of breeders we maybe short of buyers.

Best Regards
Jeremy A. Rich

 

[ataraxia]

Jeremy i appreciate your optimistic view but history will repeat. Premature but it is realistic.

You do answer the dilemma some will soon find out. This will also repeat to yet a whole-nother story.

Cynicism...could not have been more dead on.

 

[Motherlode Chameleon]

Jeremy i appreciate your optimistic view but history will repeat. Premature but it is realistic.

You do answer the dilemma some will soon find out. This will also repeat to yet a whole-nother story.

Cynicism...could not have been more dead on.

The retailers that I have seen that have got new conservative Madagascar quota species had chameleons that were doing far healthier than 90% dead soon. There was actually extremely healthy imports with captive breeding going on. That percentage seemed extremely steep even compared to the Cameroon shipment that was imported earlier this year.

We have got to reach the next problem first before we can account or attempt to start to solve it. I am not dead on anything.

Best Regards
Jeremy A. Rich

 

[frankpayne32]

Agreed.


At $2000 apiece the imported Parsons are never going to get into the hands of enough qualified people to really establish them.

Truth. After about eighteen years of chameleon keeping I finally feel ready to own Parsons. Now that I am I can't afford to... Don't get me wrong, CBB Parsons should totally go for $2000 a piece. When I finally found out about the ban being lifted I thought "Finally, I can get my parsons!" I was wrong haha.

 

[frankpayne32]

I think in the end we won't be short of breeders we maybe short of buyers.

Best Regards
Jeremy A. Rich

That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard on here. Right up there with you being the reason there are new quotas. Not enough buyers for CB parsonii?! I would be a little surprised if they even need to be advertised to be sold. Three people breeding them is awesome, it is NOWHERE near enough to establish them in the hobby.

The great thing about your posts and threads Jeremy is that it gets the people that actually have some idea what they are talking about to call you out on your inaccuracies and get to some real discussion.

 

[Chris Anderson]

I contributed to new conservative quotas not thousands and of non threatened species.

The accuracy (or lack thereof) of this statement has been well established in this thread already. For those that missed it, however, here are the relevant portions of these claims:

I have produced documented results other than topics on this Forums. Look after critiquing no new Madagascar CITES quota species after no new species for 17 years. There are new quota species now. Back off!! There are always some naysayers.

Best Regards
Jeremy A. Rich

Just curious. Are you saying you should be credited and are the one to thank for the new Madagascan quota species we've had available as of late?

Not totally. I am saying with my thread and that it is found on Google Search for CITES quotas. Then after two years of me posting my own opinion alone and no replies with my degree/major at the time, UC Davis being the top Agriculture school in the nation and my experience with chameleons someone with CITES or someone connected here with CITES was listening. Whomever figured I had a good point/good idea to add some new Madagascar quota species after none for 17 years. Started 2010 and first response was 2012 and first new quota species was 2012 Furcifer campani. Why not have a look?

https://www.chameleonforums.com/if-there-were-new-cites-species-quotas-40252/

Best Regards
Jeremy A. Rich

This is hysterical. Every time I think you can't post anything nuttier, you surprise even me, Jeremy! When you claimed you were an experienced C. parsonii breeder because you provided feeders a couple times to a guy that hatched one, I thought I had heard it all, but this one is right up there. I'm not sure why I should be surprised given how many times you've publicly and privately tried to claim I steal your ideas to advance my own career, but this one is just too much!

Chris


EDIT: Hahaha, just realized this is an April fools joke. Good one, Jeremy! You got me, thats for sure!

I am only nuttie to you as I have a degree in a department (Agriculture) that you have no experience with, no answers for, and in general no clue about. These idea's I have talked to Professors here at UC Davis about, one of the top Agriculture schools in the world, and they think there is nothing nuttie about my idea's. My family and I have had been apart of pioneering big ideas before (my families company is one of the Pioneers of Premium Extra Virgin Olive Oil Industry in the USA, my Father is a Founding Member of the California Olive Oil Council, we have devloped a golf course and more) this is not the first good idea we have had.

I as far as Parsonii breeding and your ego I never brought that up. I was talking about the new quotas species. I was not making any mention of you.

Best Regards
Jeremy A. Rich

Jeremy,

Actually I too attended a top agriculture school and in the course of pursuing an agriculturally focused major also took numerous specialized conservation and management courses. It may not have taken me 6 years to do it, but as it turns out, I too am quite familiar with the topics at hand. One of the first things I learned, however, is that effective conservation strategies are rarely as simplistic as you seem to think, and that failure to appropriately account for local history, resource needs, and economic demands is a sure fire way to fail. Establishing effective international conservation and management programs in the developing world is very different from pioneering an olive oil industry or performing the manual labor behind pre-established conservation action plans in the developed world.

Now, since your previous comments appear to not have been a hilarious April Fool’s joke, its time we bring everyone back from La La Land and enjoy reality for a while. So, lets stop with the talking out our @$$ end, stop with the making stuff up without having done any semblance of background research, and start working with some information that is backed up by documented references and facts for a bit. You’ll probably learn something.

Now we all know that people have been hoping for the 1995 trade suspension to be lifted since it occurred. The fact that it didn’t happen for 17 years is not because efforts were not being made, and it certainly had nothing to do with waiting for you to come along and ramble on to yourself for two years. In fact, CITES was quite explicit about what they required of Madagascar in order for the suspension to be lifted, it just took a long time for those conditions to be met to their satisfaction. Specifically, after a number of species went through a Review of Significant Trade, the suspension occurred because the Malagasy Management Authority failed to satisfactorily respond to five recommendations made by CITES aimed at confirming that trade levels were being maintained at a non-detrimental level in accordance with Article IV of CITES. The suspension was put in place until such as time as the Malagasy Management Authority could satisfactorily show that trade would be maintained at non-detrimental levels.

In response to the CITES actions, the Experimental Management Program (EMP) was established in 1999 in an attempt to fulfill the requirements. The EMP established a test management system in which limited quotas were established for the four Furcifer species for which trade had not been suspended, in the hopes of showing that an effective management system was in place. Unfortunately by 2001/2002, the EMP dissipated, but the quotas stuck.

In 2001 a country-wide Review of Significant Trade was started for Madagascar, which ultimately resulted in an action plan to reform Madagascar’s wildlife export trade, which was adopted in 2003. Since then, the implementation of this action plan has been in process. Included in this action plan was the development of a transparent quota-setting methodology and the collection of data necessary to evaluate the population levels of different species. As a result, in 2008 the Animals Committee of CITES decided the country-wide Review of Significant Trade could end.

As a result of this framework, in 2009 the Animals Committee reviewed all species on a case-by-case basis and determined that paragraphs 2(a) and 3 of Article IV of CITES were still not being complied with for Calumma amber, C. capuroni, C. cucullatum, C. furcifer, C. guibei, C. hafahafa, C. hilleniusi, C. jejy, C. linotum, C. peltierorum, C. peyrierasi, C. tsaratananense, C. tsycorne, C. vatosoa, Furcifer angeli, F. balteatus, F. belalandaensis, F. labordi, F. nicosiai and F. tuzetae. They determined, however, that pending the completion of six steps, these paragraphs would be complied with for Calumma andringitraense, C. boettgeri, C. brevicorne, C. crypticum, C. fallax, C. gallus, C. gastrotaenia, C. glawi, C. globifer, C. guillaumeti, C. malthe, C. marojezense, C. nasutum, C. oshaughnessyi, C. parsonii, C. vencesi, Furcifer antimena, F. bifidus, F. campani, F. minor, F. petteri, F. rhinoceratus and F. willsii. These six steps included establishing conservative annual export quotas for wild specimens intended for trade, based on estimates of sustainable offtake and scientific information;

To this end, Madagasikara Voakajy had begun extensive studies in 2008 to gather data necessary to assist the Madagascar CITES Scientific Authority to demonstrate findings of non-detriment and sustainable collection abilities. The results of this work were reported in 2011 and in 2012 the Animals Committee accepted a quota proposed by Madagascar of 250 live specimens of Furcifer campani for 2012 and 2013, and zero export quotas for Calumma brevicorne, C. crypticum, C. gastrotaenia, C. nasutum, C. parsonii, Furcifer antimena and F. minor, and the Standing Committee lifted the suspension on Calumma andringitraense, C. boettgeri, C. brevicorne, C. crypticum, C. fallax, C. gallus, C. gastrotaenia, C. glawi, C. globifer, C. guillaumeti, C. malthe, C. marojezense, C. nasutum, C. oshaughnessyi, C. parsonii, C. vencesi, Furcifer antimena, F. bifidus, F. campani, F. minor, F. petteri, F. rhinoceratus and F. willsii.

With the completion of the IUCN Red List Assessments for the remaining Malagasy chameleon species, quotas on additional species were established last year. Calumma amber, C. capuroni, C. cucullatum, C. furcifer, C. guibei, C. hafahafa, C. hilleniusi, C. jejy, C. linotum, C. peltierorum, C. peyrierasi, C. tsaratananense, C. tsycorne, C. vatosoa, Furcifer angeli, F. balteatus, F. belalandaensis, F. labordi, F. nicosiai and F. tuzetae, however, remain under a trade suspension pending recognition by CITES of compliance with paragraphs 2(a) and 3 of Article IV by Madagascar.

Now, as can be clearly shown in the above, Jeremy, no one “with CITES or someone connected here with CITES was listening” and none “figured [you] had a good point/good idea to add some new Madagascar quota species after none for 17 years”. The wheels for these quotas were in motion years before you started rambling to yourself.

Chris


Sources:
Carpenter, A.I. (2002). CITES: Good Conservation or Failing All? Chameleons! Online E-Zine, September 2002.
CITES. (1994). Significant Trade in Animal Species Included in Appendix II: Recommendations of the Standing Committee (No. 784). CITES Secretariat, Geneva.
CITES. (1995). Significant Trade in Animal Species Included in Appendix II: Recommendations of the Standing Committee (No. 833). CITES Secretariat, Geneva.
CITES. (1999). Notification to the Parties: Exploitation and management of reptiles and amphibians of Madagascar (No. 1999/51). CITES Secretariat, Geneva.
CITES. (2009). Review of Significant Trade in specimens of Appendix-II species: Progress report on the country-based review of significant trade in Madagascar (AC23 Doc. 8.2). CITES Secretariat, Geneva.
CITES. (2009). Review of Significant Trade in specimens of Appendix-II species: Overview of the Species-based Review of Significant Trade (AC24 Doc. 7.2). CITES Secretariat, Geneva.
CITES. (2012). Review of Significant Trade: Review of recommendations to suspend trade made more than two years ago (No. SC62 Doc 27.2). CITES Secretariat, Geneva.
Randrianantoandro, C.J., Andriantsimanarilafy, R.R. & Randrianavelona, R. (2011). A conservation framework for Furcifer chameleons in Madagascar. Madagasikara Voakajy, Madagascar.

 

[GCash]

I am not dead on anything.

Best Regards
Jeremy A. Rich

I think ataraxia was saying you were correct about the cynicism, but if you say so.

 

[kameleons jvo]

I completely agree with you Chris!!!

 

[Motherlode Chameleon]

That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard on here. Right up there with you being the reason there are new quotas. Not enough buyers for CB parsonii?! I would be a little surprised if they even need to be advertised to be sold. Three people breeding them is awesome, it is NOWHERE near enough to establish them in the hobby.

The great thing about your posts and threads Jeremy is that it gets the people that actually have some idea what they are talking about to call you out on your inaccuracies and get to some real discussion.

No this is just speculation during me brain storming while writing a post. I did not expect most to understand/comprehend that statement. Most people have got the desire to own a Calumma parsonii parsonii however I was just considering how many families or people with homes/apartments have the space requirements to provide for room sized enclosure or almost room sized enclosure for a Calumma parsonii parsonii. That was my consideration. There are plenty of capable keepers that have been put off from keeping Calumma parsonii parsonii for that reason alone.

The accuracy (or lack thereof) of this statement has been well established in this thread already. For those that missed it, however, here are the relevant portions of these claims:

I am not embarrassed. Actually you are off I had long conversations with Ardi Abadi over a dozen times about chameleon conservation, the ban, new quotas and my opinions made it with her and she contributed documents/material to CITES that was instrumental in the ban, original quotas, original system, the legacy has an affect on the existing system and the new quotas. She was not for new quotas I was. We were both for continued forest conservation. However we both concurred that the 1995 ban was necessary. You were in Europe you had access to most all Madagascar species.

I am not going to be involved in finger pointing however you are not being accurate with your quotes as seen above. I was apart of dealing with CITES starting when I contributed to the ban through talks with Ardi Abate. However I was always thinking and prepared to act if Malagasy progressed enough that there should be new quotas and if the situation was appropriate new quotas should happen. I have even had talks/pms with you (some Calumma should be on the quota list) about new quotas well before Furcifer campani made the list in 2012 and you deal with CITES. By taking proper conservation action, keeping the dream alive, and posting on the Chameleons Forums (that is open to Google searches) I think I did that contribute to the new CITES quotas. Just happens that I have got an Agriculture degree (with a background in conservation biology) from UC Davis that is now considered the top Agriculture University in the world and is most adapt at solving problems such as these.

Best Regards
Jeremy A. Rich

 

[NHenn]

By taking proper conservation action, keeping the dream alive, and posting on the Chameleons Forums (that is open to Google searches) I think I did that contribute to the new CITES quotas.

Jeremy if this is the case, could you please start making posts on the forums to lower the prices of these new CITES species so they do not die in the hands of the importers and actually have a chance to get to the breeders. I need someone to find it on Google so that I don't have to pay $1,100 for a pair of petteri, willsii or bifidus just for the female to show up dead and male to die a week later!

 

[Motherlode Chameleon]

Jeremy if this is the case, could you please start making posts on the forums to lower the prices of these new CITES species so they do not die in the hands of the importers and actually have a chance to get to the breeders. I need someone to find it on Google so that I don't have to pay $1,100 for a pair of petteri, willsii or bifidus just for the female to show up dead and male to die a week later!

Nick

You do not want to resell your captive bred new quota species for a healthy price just like you sell your captive bred Nosy Faly Furcifer pardalis? The same ones that everyone pays top dollar for wild caught Nosy Faly Furcifer pardalis from the same retailers/importers of these new quotas species? The prices I have seen for Furcifer petteri, Furcifer bifidus and Furcifer willsii all have dropped from their starting prices. However Furcifer bifidus I think should cost the same as a pair of Nosy Faly wild caught Furcifer pardalis $1000.00 a pair.

If you want a lower price other than what is going on now bargain for yourself. I think the prices should stay high for these new quota species. I think it is good for conservation of these species, slows excessive exports, and demands importers take the best care of their Madagascar and African Chameleons.

I recommended Ninja Nick to talk to Thomas about replacing or giving a deal price next import about the female Furcifer bifidus that died the day it arrived.

Best Regards
Jeremy A. Rich

 

[NHenn]

Nick

You do not want to resell your captive bred new quota species for a healthy price just like you sell your captive bred Nosy Faly Furcifer pardalis? The same ones that everyone pays top dollar for wild caught Nosy Faly Furcifer pardalis from the same retailers/importers of these new quotas species? The prices I have seen for Furcifer petteri, Furcifer bifidus and Furcifer willsii all have dropped from their starting prices. However Furcifer bifidus I think should cost the same as a pair of Nosy Faly wild caught Furcifer pardalis $1000.00 a pair.

If you want a lower price other than what is going on now bargain for yourself. I think the prices should stay high for these new quota species. I think it is good for conservation of these species, slows excessive exports, and demands importers take the best care of their Madagascar and African Chameleons.

I recommended Ninja Nick to talk to Thomas about replacing or giving a deal price next import about the female Furcifer bifidus that died the day it arrived.

Best Regards
Jeremy A. Rich

Jeremy,

You have to know that there is a huge difference between a captive bred animal and a wild caught animal. The amount of time, money and risk is so incredibly skewed between the two there is absolutely no way you can compare a wild caught price to a captive bred price. If and when you bred, you will learn this very quickly. After raising the parents, breeding, laying, incubating (6-7 months), raising babies (3-4 months), selling the young, backing your animals with health guarantees and maintaining connection with your customers who own your animals, I think you can ask for a little higher price on an animal. In most cases this is only about $25-50, something seems wrong doesn't it?

As for pricing, you should look again, WC Nosy Faly are only $650 a pair...

Once again, you are speaking from shoes you don't fill and most likely never will. It isn't fair to say that Thomas should have to lose the money on the female, especially because eggs were produced and hopefully fertile. This is the rick Thomas took when he imported them and cared for them over the last few months as they could have easily died in his hands and it is the risk Ninja Nick took in buying them.

I will go back to my original post in that if Thomas would have not had them up for the crazy $1,600+ (which you support) and had the price at something reasonable they would have sold much sooner which means they are in a healthier state and both the importer and customer wouldn't have lost all that money and the animal wouldn't have lost its life in a FedEx Box!

 

[frankpayne32]

Jeremy,

You have to know that there is a huge difference between a captive bred animal and a wild caught animal. The amount of time, money and risk is so incredibly skewed between the two there is absolutely no way you can compare a wild caught price to a captive bred price. If and when you bred, you will learn this very quickly. After raising the parents, breeding, laying, incubating (6-7 months), raising babies (3-4 months), selling the young, backing your animals with health guarantees and maintaining connection with your customers who own your animals, I think you can ask for a little higher price on an animal. In most cases this is only about $25-50, something seems wrong doesn't it?

As for pricing, you should look again, WC Nosy Faly are only $650 a pair...

Once again, you are speaking from shoes you don't fill and most likely never will. It isn't fair to say that Thomas should have to lose the money on the female, especially because eggs were produced and hopefully fertile. This is the rick Thomas took when he imported them and cared for them over the last few months as they could have easily died in his hands and it is the risk Ninja Nick took in buying them.

I will go back to my original post in that if Thomas would have not had them up for the crazy $1,600+ (which you support) and had the price at something reasonable they would have sold much sooner which means they are in a healthier state and both the importer and customer wouldn't have lost all that money and the animal wouldn't have lost its life in a FedEx Box!

From what I've been told by an importer (and he totally could have been BS'ing me) the high prices are originating from the exporters in Maddy. Supposedly the importers aren't making much profit on these high prices.

I'm hoping that importers will simply stop accepting these exorbitantly high prices and the exporters realize that they need to sell these new quota species for the same prices as the original four quota species.

 

[NHenn]

From what I've been told by an importer (and he totally could have been BS'ing me) the high prices are originating from the exporters in Maddy. Supposedly the importers aren't making much profit on these high prices.

I'm hoping that importers will simply stop accepting these exorbitantly high prices and the exporters realize that they need to sell these new quota species for the same prices as the original four quota species.

Frank, I heard the same thing from a few as well. I know some of the original prices are dropping for the next shipments later this year so I hope to see that reflected in their retail prices as well.