The High Prices of The New Madagascar Quotas Chameleon Species?

[Chris Anderson]

I have produced documented results other than topics on this Forums. Look after critiquing no new Madagascar CITES quota species after no new species for 17 years. There are new quota species now. Back off!! There are always some naysayers.

Best Regards
Jeremy A. Rich

Just curious. Are you saying you should be credited and are the one to thank for the new Madagascan quota species we've had available as of late?

Not totally. I am saying with my thread and that it is found on Google Search for CITES quotas. That after two years of me posting my own opinion alone and no replies with my degree/major at the time and experience with chameleons someone with CITES or someone connected here with CITES was listening. Whomever figured I had a good point/good idea to add some new Madagascar quota species after none for 17 years. Started 2010 and first response was 2012 and first new quota species was 2012 Furcifer campani. Why not have a look?

https://www.chameleonforums.com/if-there-were-new-cites-species-quotas-40252/

Best Regards
Jeremy A. Rich

This is hysterical. Every time I think you can't post anything nuttier, you surprise even me, Jeremy! When you claimed you were an experienced C. parsonii breeder because you provided feeders a couple times to a guy that hatched one, I thought I had heard it all, but this one is right up there. I'm not sure why I should be surprised given how many times you've publicly and privately tried to claim I steal your ideas to advance my own career, but this one is just too much!

Chris


EDIT: Hahaha, just realized this is an April fools joke. Good one, Jeremy! You got me, thats for sure!

 

[frankpayne32]

This is hysterical. Every time I think you can't post anything nuttier, you surprise even me, Jeremy! When you claimed you were an experienced C. parsonii breeder because you provided feeders a couple times to a guy that hatched one, I thought I had heard it all, but this one is right up there. I'm not sure why I should be surprised given how many times you've publicly and privately tried to claim I steal your ideas to advance my own career, but this one is just too much!

Chris


EDIT: Hahaha, just realized this is an April fools joke. Good one, Jeremy! You got me, thats for sure!

I think we all know that this isn't an April fools joke.

 

[rshewfel]

Hahahaha! Lol. This is the best April fools ever.

I want to visit Jeremy-land some day. Seams like a magical place.

 

[Motherlode Chameleon]

This is hysterical. Every time I think you can't post anything nuttier, you surprise even me, Jeremy! When you claimed you were an experienced C. parsonii breeder because you provided feeders a couple times to a guy that hatched one, I thought I had heard it all, but this one is right up there. I'm not sure why I should be surprised given how many times you've publicly and privately tried to claim I steal your ideas to advance my own career, but this one is just too much!

Chris


EDIT: Hahaha, just realized this is an April fools joke. Good one, Jeremy! You got me, thats for sure!

I am only nuttie to you as I have a degree in a department (Agriculture) that you have no experience with, no answers for, and in general no clue about. These idea's I have talked to Professors here at UC Davis about, one of the top Agriculture schools in the world, and they think there is nothing nuttie about my idea's. My family and I have had been apart of pioneering big ideas before (my families company is one of the Pioneers of Premium Extra Virgin Olive Oil Industry in the USA, my Father is a Founding Member of the California Olive Oil Council, we have devloped a golf course and more) this is not the first good idea we have had.

I as far as Parsonii breeding and your ego I never brought that up. I was talking about the new quotas species. I was not making any mention of you.

Best Regards
Jeremy A. Rich

 

[Chris Anderson]

I am only nuttie to you as I have a degree in a department (Agriculture) that you have no experience with, no answers for, and in general no clue about. These idea's I have talked to Professors here at UC Davis about, one of the top Agriculture schools in the world, and they think there is nothing nuttie about my idea's. My family and I have had been apart of pioneering big ideas before (my families company is one of the Pioneers of Premium Extra Virgin Olive Oil Industry in the USA and my Father is a Founding Member of the California Olive Oil Council and more ) this is not the first good idea we have had.

I as far as Parsonii breeding and your ego I never brought that up. I was talking about the new quotas species. I was not making any mention of you.

Best Regards
Jeremy A. Rich

Jeremy,

Actually I too attended a top agriculture school and in the course of pursuing an agriculturally focused major also took numerous specialized conservation and management courses. It may not have taken me 6 years to do it, but as it turns out, I too am quite familiar with the topics at hand. One of the first things I learned, however, is that effective conservation strategies are rarely as simplistic as you seem to think, and that failure to appropriately account for local history, resource needs, and economic demands is a sure fire way to fail. Establishing effective international conservation and management programs in the developing world is very different from pioneering an olive oil industry or performing the manual labor behind pre-established conservation action plans in the developed world.

Now, since your previous comments appear to not have been a hilarious April Fool’s joke, its time we bring everyone back from La La Land and enjoy reality for a while. So, lets stop with the talking out our @$$ end, stop with the making stuff up without having done any semblance of background research, and start working with some information that is backed up by documented references and facts for a bit. You’ll probably learn something.

Now we all know that people have been hoping for the 1995 trade suspension to be lifted since it occurred. The fact that it didn’t happen for 17 years is not because efforts were not being made, and it certainly had nothing to do with waiting for you to come along and ramble on to yourself for two years. In fact, CITES was quite explicit about what they required of Madagascar in order for the suspension to be lifted, it just took a long time for those conditions to be met to their satisfaction. Specifically, after a number of species went through a Review of Significant Trade, the suspension occurred because the Malagasy Management Authority failed to satisfactorily respond to five recommendations made by CITES aimed at confirming that trade levels were being maintained at a non-detrimental level in accordance with Article IV of CITES. The suspension was put in place until such as time as the Malagasy Management Authority could satisfactorily show that trade would be maintained at non-detrimental levels.

In response to the CITES actions, the Experimental Management Program (EMP) was established in 1999 in an attempt to fulfill the requirements. The EMP established a test management system in which limited quotas were established for the four Furcifer species for which trade had not been suspended, in the hopes of showing that an effective management system was in place. Unfortunately by 2001/2002, the EMP dissipated, but the quotas stuck.

In 2001 a country-wide Review of Significant Trade was started for Madagascar, which ultimately resulted in an action plan to reform Madagascar’s wildlife export trade, which was adopted in 2003. Since then, the implementation of this action plan has been in process. Included in this action plan was the development of a transparent quota-setting methodology and the collection of data necessary to evaluate the population levels of different species. As a result, in 2008 the Animals Committee of CITES decided the country-wide Review of Significant Trade could end.

As a result of this framework, in 2009 the Animals Committee reviewed all species on a case-by-case basis and determined that paragraphs 2(a) and 3 of Article IV of CITES were still not being complied with for Calumma amber, C. capuroni, C. cucullatum, C. furcifer, C. guibei, C. hafahafa, C. hilleniusi, C. jejy, C. linotum, C. peltierorum, C. peyrierasi, C. tsaratananense, C. tsycorne, C. vatosoa, Furcifer angeli, F. balteatus, F. belalandaensis, F. labordi, F. nicosiai and F. tuzetae. They determined, however, that pending the completion of six steps, these paragraphs would be complied with for Calumma andringitraense, C. boettgeri, C. brevicorne, C. crypticum, C. fallax, C. gallus, C. gastrotaenia, C. glawi, C. globifer, C. guillaumeti, C. malthe, C. marojezense, C. nasutum, C. oshaughnessyi, C. parsonii, C. vencesi, Furcifer antimena, F. bifidus, F. campani, F. minor, F. petteri, F. rhinoceratus and F. willsii. These six steps included establishing conservative annual export quotas for wild specimens intended for trade, based on estimates of sustainable offtake and scientific information;

To this end, Madagasikara Voakajy had begun extensive studies in 2008 to gather data necessary to assist the Madagascar CITES Scientific Authority to demonstrate findings of non-detriment and sustainable collection abilities. The results of this work were reported in 2011 and in 2012 the Animals Committee accepted a quota proposed by Madagascar of 250 live specimens of Furcifer campani for 2012 and 2013, and zero export quotas for Calumma brevicorne, C. crypticum, C. gastrotaenia, C. nasutum, C. parsonii, Furcifer antimena and F. minor, and the Standing Committee lifted the suspension on Calumma andringitraense, C. boettgeri, C. brevicorne, C. crypticum, C. fallax, C. gallus, C. gastrotaenia, C. glawi, C. globifer, C. guillaumeti, C. malthe, C. marojezense, C. nasutum, C. oshaughnessyi, C. parsonii, C. vencesi, Furcifer antimena, F. bifidus, F. campani, F. minor, F. petteri, F. rhinoceratus and F. willsii.

With the completion of the IUCN Red List Assessments for the remaining Malagasy chameleon species, quotas on additional species were established last year. Calumma amber, C. capuroni, C. cucullatum, C. furcifer, C. guibei, C. hafahafa, C. hilleniusi, C. jejy, C. linotum, C. peltierorum, C. peyrierasi, C. tsaratananense, C. tsycorne, C. vatosoa, Furcifer angeli, F. balteatus, F. belalandaensis, F. labordi, F. nicosiai and F. tuzetae, however, remain under a trade suspension pending recognition by CITES of compliance with paragraphs 2(a) and 3 of Article IV by Madagascar.

Now, as can be clearly shown in the above, Jeremy, no one “with CITES or someone connected here with CITES was listening” and none “figured [you] had a good point/good idea to add some new Madagascar quota species after none for 17 years”. The wheels for these quotas were in motion years before you started rambling to yourself.

Chris


Sources:
Carpenter, A.I. (2002). CITES: Good Conservation or Failing All? Chameleons! Online E-Zine, September 2002.
CITES. (1994). Significant Trade in Animal Species Included in Appendix II: Recommendations of the Standing Committee (No. 784). CITES Secretariat, Geneva.
CITES. (1995). Significant Trade in Animal Species Included in Appendix II: Recommendations of the Standing Committee (No. 833). CITES Secretariat, Geneva.
CITES. (1999). Notification to the Parties: Exploitation and management of reptiles and amphibians of Madagascar (No. 1999/51). CITES Secretariat, Geneva.
CITES. (2009). Review of Significant Trade in specimens of Appendix-II species: Progress report on the country-based review of significant trade in Madagascar (AC23 Doc. 8.2). CITES Secretariat, Geneva.
CITES. (2009). Review of Significant Trade in specimens of Appendix-II species: Overview of the Species-based Review of Significant Trade (AC24 Doc. 7.2). CITES Secretariat, Geneva.
CITES. (2012). Review of Significant Trade: Review of recommendations to suspend trade made more than two years ago (No. SC62 Doc 27.2). CITES Secretariat, Geneva.
Randrianantoandro, C.J., Andriantsimanarilafy, R.R. & Randrianavelona, R. (2011). A conservation framework for Furcifer chameleons in Madagascar. Madagasikara Voakajy, Madagascar.

 

[frankpayne32]

Thank you Chris for the useful and cited information. I learned a lot. Am I correct in saying that it is likely or at least possible that Calumma amber, C. capuroni, C. cucullatum, C. furcifer, C. guibei, C. hafahafa, C. hilleniusi, C. jejy, C. linotum, C. peltierorum, C. peyrierasi, C. tsaratananense, C. tsycorne, C. vatosoa, Furcifer angeli, F. balteatus, F. belalandaensis, F. labordi, F. nicosiai and F. tuzetae will be exported in the future?

 

[Chris Anderson]

Thank you Chris for the useful and cited information. I learned a lot. Am I correct in saying that it is likely or at least possible that Calumma amber, C. capuroni, C. cucullatum, C. furcifer, C. guibei, C. hafahafa, C. hilleniusi, C. jejy, C. linotum, C. peltierorum, C. peyrierasi, C. tsaratananense, C. tsycorne, C. vatosoa, Furcifer angeli, F. balteatus, F. belalandaensis, F. labordi, F. nicosiai and F. tuzetae will be exported in the future?

Unfortunately C. amber, C. capuroni, C. guibei, C. jejy, C. peltierorum, C. peyrierasi and C. tsaratananense are not currently documented as occurring in sites from where collection is permitted. As a result, those species are unlikely to get quotas until both the suspension on them is lifted and occurrence outside of protected areas is confirmed. Further, C. furcifer, C. hafahafa, C. hilleniusi, F. balteatus, F. belalandaensis and F. nicosiai have all been assessed as either Endangered or Critically Endangered by the IUCN Red List, so even if they were removed from the suspension list they will not be issued quotas until that changes. Additionally, C. linotum has not yet been assessed on the IUCN Red List, and C. vatosoa and F. tuzetae is currently assessed as Data Deficient, so they are all unlikely to get quotas until that were to change as well. That leaves Calumma cucullatum, C. tsycorne, F. angeli and F. labordi. They would still need to be removed from the suspension list, and then we'll see.

Chris

 

[frankpayne32]

Gotcha, thanks again.

 

[Motherlode Chameleon]

Jeremy,

Actually I too attended a top agriculture school and in the course of pursuing an agriculturally focused major also took numerous specialized conservation and management courses. It may not have taken me 6 years to do it, but as it turns out, I too am quite familiar with the topics at hand. One of the first things I learned, however, is that effective conservation strategies are rarely as simplistic as you seem to think, and that failure to appropriately account for local history, resource needs, and economic demands is a sure fire way to fail. Establishing effective international conservation and management programs in the developing world is very different from pioneering an olive oil industry or performing the manual labor behind pre-established conservation action plans in the developed world.

Now, since your previous comments appear to not have been a hilarious April Fool’s joke, its time we bring everyone back from La La Land and enjoy reality for a while. So, lets stop with the talking out our @$$ end, stop with the making stuff up without having done any semblance of background research, and start working with some information that is backed up by documented references and facts for a bit. You’ll probably learn something.

Now we all know that people have been hoping for the 1995 trade suspension to be lifted since it occurred. The fact that it didn’t happen for 17 years is not because efforts were not being made, and it certainly had nothing to do with waiting for you to come along and ramble on to yourself for two years. In fact, CITES was quite explicit about what they required of Madagascar in order for the suspension to be lifted, it just took a long time for those conditions to be met to their satisfaction. Specifically, after a number of species went through a Review of Significant Trade, the suspension occurred because the Malagasy Management Authority failed to satisfactorily respond to five recommendations made by CITES aimed at confirming that trade levels were being maintained at a non-detrimental level in accordance with Article IV of CITES. The suspension was put in place until such as time as the Malagasy Management Authority could satisfactorily show that trade would be maintained at non-detrimental levels.

In response to the CITES actions, the Experimental Management Program (EMP) was established in 1999 in an attempt to fulfill the requirements. The EMP established a test management system in which limited quotas were established for the four Furcifer species for which trade had not been suspended, in the hopes of showing that an effective management system was in place. Unfortunately by 2001/2002, the EMP dissipated, but the quotas stuck.

In 2001 a country-wide Review of Significant Trade was started for Madagascar, which ultimately resulted in an action plan to reform Madagascar’s wildlife export trade, which was adopted in 2003. Since then, the implementation of this action plan has been in process. Included in this action plan was the development of a transparent quota-setting methodology and the collection of data necessary to evaluate the population levels of different species. As a result, in 2008 the Animals Committee of CITES decided the country-wide Review of Significant Trade could end.

As a result of this framework, in 2009 the Animals Committee reviewed all species on a case-by-case basis and determined that paragraphs 2(a) and 3 of Article IV of CITES were still not being complied with for Calumma amber, C. capuroni, C. cucullatum, C. furcifer, C. guibei, C. hafahafa, C. hilleniusi, C. jejy, C. linotum, C. peltierorum, C. peyrierasi, C. tsaratananense, C. tsycorne, C. vatosoa, Furcifer angeli, F. balteatus, F. belalandaensis, F. labordi, F. nicosiai and F. tuzetae. They determined, however, that pending the completion of six steps, these paragraphs would be complied with for Calumma andringitraense, C. boettgeri, C. brevicorne, C. crypticum, C. fallax, C. gallus, C. gastrotaenia, C. glawi, C. globifer, C. guillaumeti, C. malthe, C. marojezense, C. nasutum, C. oshaughnessyi, C. parsonii, C. vencesi, Furcifer antimena, F. bifidus, F. campani, F. minor, F. petteri, F. rhinoceratus and F. willsii. These six steps included establishing conservative annual export quotas for wild specimens intended for trade, based on estimates of sustainable offtake and scientific information;

To this end, Madagasikara Voakajy had begun extensive studies in 2008 to gather data necessary to assist the Madagascar CITES Scientific Authority to demonstrate findings of non-detriment and sustainable collection abilities. The results of this work were reported in 2011 and in 2012 the Animals Committee accepted a quota proposed by Madagascar of 250 live specimens of Furcifer campani for 2012 and 2013, and zero export quotas for Calumma brevicorne, C. crypticum, C. gastrotaenia, C. nasutum, C. parsonii, Furcifer antimena and F. minor, and the Standing Committee lifted the suspension on Calumma andringitraense, C. boettgeri, C. brevicorne, C. crypticum, C. fallax, C. gallus, C. gastrotaenia, C. glawi, C. globifer, C. guillaumeti, C. malthe, C. marojezense, C. nasutum, C. oshaughnessyi, C. parsonii, C. vencesi, Furcifer antimena, F. bifidus, F. campani, F. minor, F. petteri, F. rhinoceratus and F. willsii.

With the completion of the IUCN Red List Assessments for the remaining Malagasy chameleon species, quotas on additional species were established last year. Calumma amber, C. capuroni, C. cucullatum, C. furcifer, C. guibei, C. hafahafa, C. hilleniusi, C. jejy, C. linotum, C. peltierorum, C. peyrierasi, C. tsaratananense, C. tsycorne, C. vatosoa, Furcifer angeli, F. balteatus, F. belalandaensis, F. labordi, F. nicosiai and F. tuzetae, however, remain under a trade suspension pending recognition by CITES of compliance with paragraphs 2(a) and 3 of Article IV by Madagascar.

Now, as can be clearly shown in the above, Jeremy, no one “with CITES or someone connected here with CITES was listening” and none “figured [you] had a good point/good idea to add some new Madagascar quota species after none for 17 years”. The wheels for these quotas were in motion years before you started rambling to yourself.

Chris


Sources:
Carpenter, A.I. (2002). CITES: Good Conservation or Failing All? Chameleons! Online E-Zine, September 2002.
CITES. (1994). Significant Trade in Animal Species Included in Appendix II: Recommendations of the Standing Committee (No. 784). CITES Secretariat, Geneva.
CITES. (1995). Significant Trade in Animal Species Included in Appendix II: Recommendations of the Standing Committee (No. 833). CITES Secretariat, Geneva.
CITES. (1999). Notification to the Parties: Exploitation and management of reptiles and amphibians of Madagascar (No. 1999/51). CITES Secretariat, Geneva.
CITES. (2009). Review of Significant Trade in specimens of Appendix-II species: Progress report on the country-based review of significant trade in Madagascar (AC23 Doc. 8.2). CITES Secretariat, Geneva.
CITES. (2009). Review of Significant Trade in specimens of Appendix-II species: Overview of the Species-based Review of Significant Trade (AC24 Doc. 7.2). CITES Secretariat, Geneva.
CITES. (2012). Review of Significant Trade: Review of recommendations to suspend trade made more than two years ago (No. SC62 Doc 27.2). CITES Secretariat, Geneva.
Randrianantoandro, C.J., Andriantsimanarilafy, R.R. & Randrianavelona, R. (2011). A conservation framework for Furcifer chameleons in Madagascar. Madagasikara Voakajy, Madagascar.

Chris

You forgot to mention what was your degree in Agriculture that you were enrolled in? There are two types of Forestry conservation (Agricultural and Conservation Biology approaches) and both are two different approaches and to say 1/one or the other is nuttier when both have their place is not intelligent. Who claimed my answers were simple answers?

As for your clarification as to the on goings of CITES thanks for the clarification. You should update the Chameleon Forums more often.

I have considered new quotas ever since the 1995 CITES ban was put into place from a Agricultural and Conservation Biology approach from 1995 on the Rich Ranch. That is before you even started keeping chameleons (1997). You are with CITES now and your listening to me and you have been reading my "If there were new CITES Quotas Species Thread" thread the whole time. Your reassurance does not count for much. As well I am in contact with CITES officials now and am on their mailing list meaning again all your statements are off about me.

Best Regards
Jeremy A. Rich

 

[Chris Anderson]

Chris

You forgot to mention what was your degree in Agriculture that you were enrolled in? There are two types of Forestry conservation (Agricultural and Conservation Biology approaches) and both are two different approaches and to say 1/one or the other is nuttier when both have their place is not intelligent. Who claimed my answers were simple answers?

As for your clarification as to the on goings of CITES thanks for the clarification. You should update the Chameleon Forums more often.

I have considered new quotas ever since the 1995 CITES ban was put into place from a Agricultural and Conservation Biology approach from 1995 on the Rich Ranch. That is before you even started keeping chameleons (1997). You are with CITES now and your listening to me and you have been reading my "If there were new CITES Quotas Species Thread" thread the whole time. Your reassurance does not count for much. As well I am in contact with CITES officials now and am on their mailing list meaning again all your statements are off about me.

Best Regards
Jeremy A. Rich

Jeremy,

As can be clearly seen by the portions of your text I quoted in my post, my comment about what you said being nutty was in reference to your claim that you in any way had any part in the new Madagascar CITES quotas being issued. As for whether or not you think my reassurances that you had nothing to do with it count for much in your view, it doesn't really matter because everything showing these efforts were in effect long before you started posting about it on the forum are documented and publicly available. If you ever did any type of research before posting outlandish claims, you would save yourself the embarrassment of having to be called out constantly. Just like giving a couple feeders to a guy who hatched a C. parsonii does not make you an experienced C. parsonii breeder, being on a CITES mailing list and wasting their time with the same worthless refuse you post here doesn't mean you are responsible for the new quotas in any way, shape, or form.

Chris

 

[laurie]

Thanks.

Thanks Chris for the info about how the decisions on quotas are arrived at. I was sadly unaware of any of that. Thanks for teaching me more info about chameleons I needed to learn. Please continue to take time to post the things we can learn from about the chameleons we all love.

 

[Motherlode Chameleon]

Jeremy,

As can be clearly seen by the portions of your text I quoted in my post, my comment about what you said being nutty was in reference to your claim that you in any way had any part in the new Madagascar CITES quotas being issued. As for whether or not you think my reassurances that you had nothing to do with it count for much in your view, it doesn't really matter because everything showing these efforts were in effect long before you started posting about it on the forum are documented and publicly available. If you ever did any type of research before posting outlandish claims, you would save yourself the embarrassment of having to be called out constantly. Just like giving a couple feeders to a guy who hatched a C. parsonii does not make you an experienced C. parsonii breeder, being on a CITES mailing list and wasting their time with the same worthless refuse you post here doesn't mean you are responsible for the new quotas in any way, shape, or form.

Chris

Chris

I am not embarrassed. Actually you are off I had long conversations with Ardi Abadi over a dozen times about chameleon conservation, the ban, new quotas and my opinions made it with her and she contributed documents/material to CITES that was instrumental in the ban, original quotas, original system, the legacy has an affect on the existing system and the new quotas. She was not for new quotas I was. We were both for continued forest conservation. However we both concurred that the 1995 ban was necessary. You were in Europe you had access to most all Madagascar species.

You never answered my question about your degree in Agriculture? As for Calumma parsonii parsonii I never stated I was a breeder. Steve Casto sarcastically called/considered me a Calumma parsonii parsonii breeder. I stated I had experience with breeding that breeding that resulted in captive bred Calumma parsonii parsonii. We did much more than just talk about feeders and I only mentioned one breeder. However my experience is first hand experience that is not limited to only one Calumma parsonii parsonii breeder. Your statement is extremely presumptuous. Are you really going to look over experience from a 100% captive bred Calumma parsonii parsonii of any kind. You think that experience is not worthy? You are really going to saying that is a negative?

I stated someone on CITES who can use a Google Search may be reading my threads such as you. Why are you presuming I am wasting the CITES officials time? When actually he was more interested about me than I about him.

Best Regards
Jeremy A. Rich

 

[Chuck G]

Man I am glad I am finding the time to get on here more often!
Chameleon Forums has always been a good spot for a good old fashioned donnybrook. Keep it above the belt boys.

 

[Motherlode Chameleon]

Man I am glad I am finding the time to get on here more often!
Chameleon Forums has always been a good spot for a good old fashioned donnybrook. Keep it above the belt boys.

Thanks. I think we're good Chuck.

Best Regards
Jeremy A. Rich

 

[Olimpia]

Jeremy, aren't you about my age? In 1995 you were about 5-6 years old, no? How much can a small child really ponder about species bans and quota numbers?

 

[Motherlode Chameleon]

Jeremy, aren't you about my age? In 1995 you were about 5-6 years old, no? How much can a small child really ponder about species bans and quota numbers?

No I am not.

You have no clue Olimpia.

Best Regards
Jeremy A. Rich

 

[OldChamKeeper]

I never thought I'd get to watch a old fashioned Japanese monster movie again. I haven't seen a black & white movie in forever.






When my dad and me were out catching chuckwallas back in the early 80's and I showed him a monster one that I got out from under a rock he simply said "There's nothing more unnatural than a guy patting himself on the back, the human body is not made for that" clearly unimpressed with my catch.

<Eats Popcorn>

 

[bobcochran]

Come on Jeremy fess up! Go ahead put it print- what year were you born? You were telling me you were in high school when we first met.

 

[Motherlode Chameleon]

The prices of these Madagascar Chameleons has begun to drop. Conservation wise and hobby wise I have got my digits crossed that the prices stay high. 1) That they shall hold a high value in their home country plus they are worth it and 2) That buyers are going to seriously consider buying these more difficult to keep (winter period) and breed Eastern Forest species before buying these species.

Sorry Bob I am not posting my age on these Forums. I have stated before I have been keeping chameleons from before the 1995 ban meaning my age should not be a surprise.

Olimpia I/my family owned/managed a 12 acre pond then and I am managing a 1200 acre reservoir now.

Best Regards
Jeremy A. Rich

 

[Todnedo]

I don't know about you but I'm glad I'm not the one that got the ban lifted,
If you are the reason quotas where reinstated Jeremy you could be responsible for the death of thousands of chameleons. I sure hope your breeding programs can make up for the loss