The Dating Game

[studiocham]

Oh, yeah, I can in fullscreen mode.

She is not doing the harmless shuffle they do when tickled by something or starting to drink. She is doing a big disincentive display there. She is waggling her whole body, then she holds herself out and off to the side of the perch. She's not hiding or shadowing the branch, she is holding herself out sideways AND recovering an upright position. She is also laterally compressing at him, and I may be seeing things, but is she grasping the branches in front of her and trying to shake them at the end of the vid? It looks like she grasps the upright branch and it moves with her a bit. Branch shaking would fit right in there with these territory-claiming displays. I guess one could equate it with a "show of weapons" like gaping and tail thrashing; she's showing off physical strength. In this case, it's not a display of pleasure nor comfort. She's setting limits.

Please PLEASE make more behavior vids! These are great!

 

[Chameleons Northwest]

Yes, she was grasping branches with both paws and shaking them. I remember noticing that when I was filming. It was quite a complex display. Afterwards, though, he actually crossed the abyss toward her, and she left her spot and moved down and to the left, away from him. That surprised me. I have that on film, as well. The "megana dancing" video was cut from a longer vid.

I will endeavor to keep filming. We bought a large XD card for the camera on eBay, and it arrived yesterday.

Interestingly, today Hercules remained on his perch and hardly even looked in her direction while I was in there. He kind of kept his head pointed toward his corner.

 

[Chameleons Northwest]

Last night Hercules slept in megana's area, near her. This morning they were sitting on adjacent branches. This afternoon they've both been going back and forth between the left and right areas of the free range.

Megana now weighs 445g. Up from the 405g she weighed when she arrived here.

 

[chamlover]

I am so jealous!!! I have a mellers and i don't even know what sex it is. How can you guys be so sure what you have? That video was awesome! I never realized they did that.

Debby

 

[studiocham]

How can you guys be so sure what you have?

Hi Debby,

Sandy's in a unique situation, because her original melleri was not "shy" about revealing his gender, so all she needed to do was acquire a known female. FL Chams had three WC females lay eggs, and Megana was one of them.

When you see that black-white-yellow pattern on a LTC melleri, it is a male in courtship color. Some males hold this color for weeks, some only while actually breeding. Receptive females gradually turn an all-over neon green, reducing their yellow stripe contrast. You could test your melleri by showing it a mirror or full-size melleri photo (don't laugh, has been known to work).

 

[chamlover]

Thanks for the info. I never thought of that. Will do. I think she is a female because we have had her for about 6 months and she seems really content in her enclosure. I would think if it was a male it would be more apt to want to wander, especially where she was a w/c. Do you agree?

Debby

 

[studiocham]

I think she is a female because we have had her for about 6 months and she seems really content in her enclosure. I would think if it was a male it would be more apt to want to wander, especially where she was a w/c. Do you agree?

Since the past six months were the off season for domestic melleri, I can't really say. Single males are pretty mellow that half of the year. As the weather warms up, and the wild birds outside start singing, my males will get their daily courtship suits on. It may be too early in the season to tell with your melleri. Keep observing and watch for any hemipenal plugs with feces.

 

[Chameleons Northwest]

Hercules makes some bold moves

I posted this earlier today on the Melleri Forum, and thought to add it here, as well. Hope you don't mind.

Approx. 11 A.M. this morning:

The camera is rolling now, but I kick myself that I didn't have it in
there with me first thing this morning.

Yesterday we observed Megana and Hercules interchanging their areas
of the range, going back and forth, and at times resting in the same
area together. Megana began this exchange after feeding time
yesterday morning, by crossing over to Hercules' side and just
resting there near him.

Well, apparently, Hercules took this as a come-on. So, this morning,
at feeding time no less, he crossed over to Megana's side at a fast
clip (chameleon fast clip, that is) to eat from her food dish. He
started out the moment I placed her dish there. I tried to intercept
him by moving his food dish into his path of trajectory. It did stop
him momentarily, as he ate 2 dubias from his dish, but then he bobbed
his head, flapped his lobes, and proceeded over to Megana's dish to
eat several of hers. I was gape-mouthed, observing this, knowing how
seriously Megana takes feeding time. And the fact that she is the
dominant cham. She had already been eating, so was facing her food
dish, with her head stretched out toward it. Hercules came up from
the other side, stretched toward it, and began eating. Unbelievably-
she let him! I added a few more dubias to the dish. They sat there,
eating, together, until the food was gone. They then rested in the
same area, on adjacent branches.

Here's where Hercules got a little stupid. No longer able to contain
himself, he lunged across to her, placing both fore-feet on her upper
back. (was he hoping to mount her? Or, was this a testing move?)
She threw him off and swung around to face him, but didn't do
anything else right away. After a few moments, kicking myself all
the while, I headed inside to get the camera. It was in at my
computer, where I'd been uploading Easter photos.

When I got back, and set up the camera, Megana had crossed over onto
Hercules vine, stepped toward him, and was within about 2 inches,
nose-to-nose with him. They sat there a long time, facing each
other, like a stare-down, perhaps in some sort of deep discussion?
He eventually pulled
away, turned around, and moved away onto another vine, in the
direction of his end of the range.

I will check on them in a few minutes, but I am guessing very little
has happened between them since I left. The camera is still rolling
as I type this.

My husband will be setting up a web cam over their area, with
recording capabilities. The fellow that will help facilitate this is
currently out of town. But, once that is done, we will have more
reliable coverage of these 2.

 

[studiocham]

breeding artifacts

In cases where one can't leave a camera to video all day in the cage, we kinda have to take clues where we can find them. I just posted about this on mellerichams, but hey, why not share here, too?

OK, it's not a technical term, but some keepers use it: "love scratches". I found them all over Akia's dorsum, hips, one behind one side of the vent yesterday afternoon. I thought I was imagining it, but this morning, her green has faded quite a bit and they really stand out. I will try to take pix as soon as my husband returns with the camera. I just fed them and saw some on her head, too, which may be from a slapping-test of mating melleri.

I didn't observe the act. She is hungrier than usual. He's a young male, and they don't always figure it out the first time. Is it possible for her to take on gravid color just from the scratching/grabbing contact, even if he didn't do the actual deed? Probably. Am I counting fertilized eggs before they are laid? Nope. It's all speculation until something hatches, but seeing the evidence of an attempted copulation is heartening.

I went back in the archives and found that I observed testing behavior in this pair for this year's clutch starting Nov 26-28, 2007. It's been ongoing, in fits and starts, since then. This must be the most deferential and cautious species of chameleon. You'd never hear of a veiled putting that much time into courtship. No wonder these things are seldom captivebred, they take forever.

 

[studiocham]

I just fed them and saw some on her head, too, which may be from a slapping-test of mating melleri.
...
I didn't observe the act. She is hungrier than usual. He's a young male, and they don't always figure it out the first time.

Well, I saw it today, about 3 hours (?) after this morning's display pix. I was sculpting in the house and heard a rustling, turned to look... and he's trying to mate with the wrong end of her. It explains why I found so many scratches on her head before.

She just gave up after a few minutes and dropped down a branch level, then returned up again, apparently trying to get the "correct" end closer to him. He moved to the perch underside, not sure what she was doing. They spent the next half hour following each other around the upper canopy perches. He is now at his "outpost" perch, the highest one that looks into the livingroom, watching out.

 

[studiocham]

Well, I saw it today, about 3 hours (?) after this morning's display pix. I was sculpting in the house and heard a rustling, turned to look... and he's trying to mate with the wrong end of her. It explains why I found so many scratches on her head before.

Here she is roosting, with love scratches.

 

[Chameleons Northwest]

Megana refusing food

Our 600 lb (gram) gorilla, Megana, has refused food yesterday and today. I offered her favorite- large dubia nymph- and then crickets. Nada. I left a bucket with 2 dubia nymphs right below her roosting place. Checked it after a while and they were still both there.

I am assuming this is a prelim to laying. She took on her gravid colors in July. Though I did not see Megana and Hercules mate, they had been fooling around with each other for several months when she went gravid. Time will tell whether this is a fertilized clutch or not.

Question to experienced Melleri folk: Should I place her in her bin, or wait until she begins pacing? She can actually access her bin on her own. There is a thick vine leading down into it, and a ficus tree in there. She has been in the bin a few times (I have put her in there after her weigh-ins and let her climb out on her own). Should I assume, for now, that she will go down into her bin when she is ready?

I think I will shower her this afternoon. If she will let me.

BELOW ARE MEGANA'S COLORS ON MAY 14TH (HER NORMAL COLORS FOLLOWING A SHED)

BELOW IS PHOTO OF MEGANA ON JULY 26TH- COLOR OBSERVED FADING

BELOW IS MEGANA ON SEPTEMBER 16TH

 

[studiocham]

She knows where the bin is, so I would expect her to utilize it when she's ready. She may decide to nest in one of her nice, big plant pots instead. If the soil's top layer of leaves is disturbed but perfectly flattened earth is exposed, you'll know. She will choose the perfect soil moisture for a nest, it just may not be the nice, big bin you've supplied.

I don't know what to say about the (anorexia) going off-feed, as mine could eat even one bug the morning of laying day. It's like they just can't say no.

Is she basking a lot, or just moving back and forth slowly over the day? Gravid melleri with big cages like hers don't "pace" as much as "worry/wipe" the walls with forefeet, and seem generally unsettled. How cold has her cage been at night lately? Humidity drop?

Well, sooner or later- Congratulations!!!

 

[Chameleons Northwest]

Is she basking a lot, or just moving back and forth slowly over the day? Gravid melleri with big cages like hers don't "pace" as much as "worry/wipe" the walls with forefeet, and seem generally unsettled. How cold has her cage been at night lately? Humidity drop?

Well, sooner or later- Congratulations!!!

Thank you for the reply.

The day before yesterday she was "wiping the walls" with her forefeet. It was very odd behavior for her. She hasn't been pacing. For the past few weeks, she basically sits in the same place, in the same position, all day. Up until yesterday she would at least turn around when I came in the room, and take a step or 2 down the vine to come get some food. She stopped taking crickets about a week ago, and would only take dubias. Now she won't take those.

She had a 2 hour shower today, but no interest in her bin.

Humidity drops to 50 at night, and temps drop to about 68.

 

[kenya]

This has been fascinating to read through. Mellers are very intriguing as a species- so much is special about them in comparison to other chams, it seems.

I am so excited for you, Sandy! How long is average gestation for Melleri? What has Megana been doing today? How is Herc acting through all of this?

 

[studiocham]

Humidity drops to 50 at night, and temps drop to about 68.

I'd put a ceramic heat emitter near her preferred perch to punch it up to at least 70F all night, at that one perch.

I'm concerned that a drop into the 60's might give her hormone signals she doesn't need at this late stage...

Suzanne, what do you think?

 

[Sepioteuthis]

Suzanne, what do you think?

I don't know. I wouldn't think that a 2 degree difference would make a real difference. But I'm really not the right person to ask. My experience with gravid females is limited to Merlin's one clutch.

 

[Chameleons Northwest]

Ok. I warmed up the temps tonight. I didn't have a ceramic heat emitter, but I turned on the heater. It is on the other side of a large room, and is controlled digitally, so the ambient temp will be about 71-72 degrees all night. If you think it needs to be warmer, let me know.

She did eat a large dubia this afternoon. I'll let you know how she does tomorrow.

 

[Chameleons Northwest]

Today she was more active in the morning, and ate 3 large dubias without hesitation. She had another 2 hour shower, and is now back in her range.

I do believe the warmer temps made a difference. Thank you for the advice, guys.

 

[studiocham]

Glad to hear she's back to eating. Just one more way that melleri are funny about itty bitty changes.