Poo dont look too good:(
- Thread starter bucky
- Start date
mika
New Member
That is something that I can't answer for you because it's not my cham ( I wouldn't want to experiment on your cham ) and I'm not a vet.
I've read on your prev post that the vet has been treating him for his eye problems for a while right?
How long has he been treating your cham for eye problems?
The reason I'm giving you the info is for you to make an informed decision, know that there are other alternatives out there, AND to take this info with you to your vet & discuss it.
Personally, for me, if something is not working, I would get a second vets opinion if I can.
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mika
New Member
Doesn't get the job done in chameleons. Good luck."
This was from the quote at the end,does this mean that using the capsule wont work?!
They are referring to Beta Carotene.
There are diff. forms of vit a and one of them is beta carotene.
There is still a debate on whether chams can utilize it that's why some people supplement with preformed vit a in the form of retinyl palmitate.
I'm talking about Retinyl Palmitate.
In order to fully understand it, you would have to read the links to the threads & read it one by one.
mika
New Member
If you dusted the crickets with Herptivite, your using beta carotene.
bucky
New Member
Alright,thank you, i took him to one vet,it was more of a dog cat vet, but it was on the herp list for vets in the area. I didnt like how he did things, so i took him to the vet that jenna, from prismchameleons used before she moved, SEAVS. This has been going on for almost a year id say...sad to say though, with periods where he seemed pretty well in the middle.
mika
New Member
Wow.. a year?
How long has your cham been going to SEAVS?
Have you discussed Vit A Retinyl Palmitate or Fortaz as chriscarter suggested with your vet?
I checked out their website & found this. I thought this was interesting:
Hypovitaminosis A
Clinically, chameleons may present with signs of hypovitaminosis A as described in other reptiles. 38, 39, 40 These chameleons typically have a history of low preformed vitamin A supplementation. Usually insects are being fed a poor diet and are only being dusted with a calcium/ vitamin D supplement or a multivitamin that has beta-carotene but no preformed vitamin A.
Clinical signs of hypovitaminosis A include eye problems, respiratory infections, neurological dysfunction, spinal kinking, dysecdysis, and increased formation of hemipenal plugs. Research in the panther chameleon fed a restricted vitamin A diet resulted in these same clinical signs. 41 Generally it is recommended to use a multivitamin (for dusting insects) with some pre-formed vitamin A weekly for juvenile (growing) chameleons and every other week in adult chameleons to avoid hypovitaminosis A. Additionally, feeding insects a beta-carotene rich diet, such as green- leafy vegetables, carrots and sweet potato, prior to feeding them to the chameleons, may be beneficial.
Treatment for hypovitaminosis A involves giving a parenteral vitamin A solution (vitamin A palmitate 100,000 IU/ml, vitamin D3 10,000 IU/ml and vitamin E 20 IU/ml). Give 2000 IU vit A/ 30 gm body weight by mouth every 7 days for 2 doses. The parenteral drug works well orally and may be safer when used in this manner.
Hypervitaminosis
Organ toxicity associated with the fat-soluble vitamins A and D is a common nutrition-related problem of chameleons. A relationship exists between these two vitamins and their dietary level of supplementation and the amount of ultraviolet exposure (UVB) in chameleons. 41
Vitamin A
Excess vitamin A supplementation may interfere with the metabolism of vitamin D3, resulting in metabolic bone disease. It may also lead to organ toxicity (renal, hepatic). Gular edema is a common clinical sign of organ dysfunction in chameleons.
Vitamin D3
Excess vitamin D3 supplementation -- especially in combination with calcium -- may result in organ toxicity. Metastatic calcification and gout are common results. Gular edema is a common clinical sign. Additionally, pseudo-gout has been noted in veiled chameleons fed a heavily-supplemented vitamin D3- and calcium-based diet in combination with restricted levels of vitamin A. 38 The pseudo-gout (calcium hydroxyapatite) deposits usually appear as irregular firm swellings over joints in the limbs and on ribs. These lesions are similar to those described by Frye in a chelonian. 4 These swellings must be differentiated from true gout, abcesses/osteomyelitis, and cellulitis. Fine-needle aspirate and cytology or biopsy can be used to reach a diagnosis. Radiology may be useful in screening for metastatic calcification and/or pseudo-gout. Bloodwork may indicate extremely elevated plasma calcium values in cases of hypervitaminosis D. Treatment for hypervitaminosis is difficult because the clinical disease is usually well advanced by the time the chameleon is presented (ex. gular edema with renal failure).
AND THIS:
5) deVosjoli and Ferguson (1995) recommend (for growing juvenile C. pardalis) a gut-loading cricket diet consisting of a grain base with a 1-4% calcium content and vitamin A and D at 50-100 I.U. of each vitamin per gram of cricket food. (see cricket care)
CRICKET CARE:
Powder Supplements on Your Crickets, General Guidelines:
Powder your crickets by placing a few in a cup with the supplement and gently shaking them so that the powder coats the crickets. Use a calcium/D3 supplement every feeding in juveniles, every other feeding in sub-adults and 2 times a week for adults. Use a separate multivitamin supplement(with pre-formed Vit A) once a week in juveniles, and every other week in adults. *Check with your herp vet for proper adjustments in the dusting protocol for your individual pet.
How long has your cham been going to SEAVS?
Have you discussed Vit A Retinyl Palmitate or Fortaz as chriscarter suggested with your vet?
I checked out their website & found this. I thought this was interesting:
Hypovitaminosis A
Clinically, chameleons may present with signs of hypovitaminosis A as described in other reptiles. 38, 39, 40 These chameleons typically have a history of low preformed vitamin A supplementation. Usually insects are being fed a poor diet and are only being dusted with a calcium/ vitamin D supplement or a multivitamin that has beta-carotene but no preformed vitamin A.
Clinical signs of hypovitaminosis A include eye problems, respiratory infections, neurological dysfunction, spinal kinking, dysecdysis, and increased formation of hemipenal plugs. Research in the panther chameleon fed a restricted vitamin A diet resulted in these same clinical signs. 41 Generally it is recommended to use a multivitamin (for dusting insects) with some pre-formed vitamin A weekly for juvenile (growing) chameleons and every other week in adult chameleons to avoid hypovitaminosis A. Additionally, feeding insects a beta-carotene rich diet, such as green- leafy vegetables, carrots and sweet potato, prior to feeding them to the chameleons, may be beneficial.
Treatment for hypovitaminosis A involves giving a parenteral vitamin A solution (vitamin A palmitate 100,000 IU/ml, vitamin D3 10,000 IU/ml and vitamin E 20 IU/ml). Give 2000 IU vit A/ 30 gm body weight by mouth every 7 days for 2 doses. The parenteral drug works well orally and may be safer when used in this manner.
Hypervitaminosis
Organ toxicity associated with the fat-soluble vitamins A and D is a common nutrition-related problem of chameleons. A relationship exists between these two vitamins and their dietary level of supplementation and the amount of ultraviolet exposure (UVB) in chameleons. 41
Vitamin A
Excess vitamin A supplementation may interfere with the metabolism of vitamin D3, resulting in metabolic bone disease. It may also lead to organ toxicity (renal, hepatic). Gular edema is a common clinical sign of organ dysfunction in chameleons.
Vitamin D3
Excess vitamin D3 supplementation -- especially in combination with calcium -- may result in organ toxicity. Metastatic calcification and gout are common results. Gular edema is a common clinical sign. Additionally, pseudo-gout has been noted in veiled chameleons fed a heavily-supplemented vitamin D3- and calcium-based diet in combination with restricted levels of vitamin A. 38 The pseudo-gout (calcium hydroxyapatite) deposits usually appear as irregular firm swellings over joints in the limbs and on ribs. These lesions are similar to those described by Frye in a chelonian. 4 These swellings must be differentiated from true gout, abcesses/osteomyelitis, and cellulitis. Fine-needle aspirate and cytology or biopsy can be used to reach a diagnosis. Radiology may be useful in screening for metastatic calcification and/or pseudo-gout. Bloodwork may indicate extremely elevated plasma calcium values in cases of hypervitaminosis D. Treatment for hypervitaminosis is difficult because the clinical disease is usually well advanced by the time the chameleon is presented (ex. gular edema with renal failure).
AND THIS:
5) deVosjoli and Ferguson (1995) recommend (for growing juvenile C. pardalis) a gut-loading cricket diet consisting of a grain base with a 1-4% calcium content and vitamin A and D at 50-100 I.U. of each vitamin per gram of cricket food. (see cricket care)
CRICKET CARE:
Powder Supplements on Your Crickets, General Guidelines:
Powder your crickets by placing a few in a cup with the supplement and gently shaking them so that the powder coats the crickets. Use a calcium/D3 supplement every feeding in juveniles, every other feeding in sub-adults and 2 times a week for adults. Use a separate multivitamin supplement(with pre-formed Vit A) once a week in juveniles, and every other week in adults. *Check with your herp vet for proper adjustments in the dusting protocol for your individual pet.
mika
New Member
They are referring to Beta Carotene.
There are diff. forms of vit a and one of them is beta carotene.
There is still a debate on whether chams can utilize it that's why some people supplement with preformed vit a in the form of retinyl palmitate.
I'm talking about Retinyl Palmitate.
In order to fully understand it, you would have to read the links to the threads & read it one by one.
** CORRECTION BELOW **
Sorry, I meant to say there are diff forms of vit a and beta carotene is converted into vit a but there is still a debate on whether chams can convert beta carotene into vit a that's why some people supplement with preformed vit a in the form of retinyl palmitate.
bucky
New Member
Well...i called today, his vet was on a vacation for 2 weeks But...fortunately Dr. Stahl was there I was told he was going to call me back and i was going to go over everything with him. Well,he didnt call me back one of the receptionists called me back. He told me Dr. Stahl would like to see him. But the next open appointment was june 10 Or we could drop him off on friday, and pick him up saturday morning. So Louie is going to be dropped off on friday, and hopefully Dr. Stahl will find some help for Louie
But...fortunately Dr. Stahl was there I was told he was going to call me back and i was going to go over everything with him. Well,he didnt call me back one of the receptionists called me back. He told me Dr. Stahl would like to see him. But the next open appointment was june 10 Or we could drop him off on friday, and pick him up saturday morning. So Louie is going to be dropped off on friday, and hopefully Dr. Stahl will find some help for Louie
mika
New Member
Hi, just wondering cuz I was reading this good book & it mentions Dr. Scott J. Stahl and how he worked with the author of this cham book.
For eye infections, it mentioned Gentocin eye ointment ( nonsteroidal ).
So I was curious. The book is outdated though so I don't know if they still use it.
For eye infections, it mentioned Gentocin eye ointment ( nonsteroidal ).
So I was curious. The book is outdated though so I don't know if they still use it.
