Joyce suddenly not eating

[wendysjungle]

Being a worried new cham mommy, I want to be sure I am doing right here. Joyce was eating very well for the first several days after I found her, downing crickets pretty regularly. Then I noticed when I can home Thursday that she had not eaten any of her crickets, but thought she was just skipping a day like I hear some chams do. But arriving home last night, I saw she had STILL not eaten. Both days I found her deep in the leaves of her new schefflera tree. I brought her out last night (she looks fine, no outward signs of anything wrong), and picked up a cricket in clamp tweezers and as I hoped, she got mad and opened her mouth the minute I stuck the cricket in her face, so I stuck it in her mouth and she chewed and swallowed it willingly. I did it a second time, and again the cricket went right down. I put her under her basking light after this, and later misted her cage really well.

Her Reptisun 5.0 arrived yesterday, as did the second basking light. I added them both to her cage after feeding her. She now has two basking lights (one a household bulb, and next to it a special "basking bulb" that has a red cast to it. I put the red one right next to the household bulb, since many people here said she might not go bask under a red bulb, and this seems to work well as she sat under the two bulbs for a while). She hasn't eaten yet today, but it's only 2:30 here, and I see she is moving around more in her cage again instead of just hanging out in the schefflera. I'm wondering if she just wasn't warm enough until I added the lights? We've had this bizarre, cold start to June here in Washington, and her cage is so big, maybe just too cool? I just had the little flukers round temp gauges which are hard to get a decent read on (today they show her basking spot in the low 90's with the addition of the new bulb, and humidity at around 60%). I think I'll pick up a digital temp gauge or a temp gun today so I can get something more accurate. I'll also pick up some other feeders to see if she just wants variety.

If she continues to not eat, do I keep doing the semi-force feedings? How much should I give her each time? And how often? People who saw her pic said she is probably somewhere between 4 and 5 mos old or so. Anything else I should do for her?

 

[Kat77]

Wendy,

Is she still pooping regularly?

I wouldn't be too concerned yet. Mine don't eat much for a couple days before a shed, maybe that is what is going on. Are you sure she didn't eat ANY of the crickets in her cage? It is possible that she did (unless you are keeping count) and is just getting enough and not needing to eat the rest.

Also, if you are leaving the crickets in there over night, I would recommend taking them out before bed. Sometimes crickets find sleeping chameleons to be tasty treats, and you don't want that!

 

[Julirs]

I really would not even give it too much of a thought until she has not eaten for 5 days to a week. Veileds can be very strange-my male did not eat for weeks! Maybe get some silkworms or waxworms-they seem to just be very tempting for them!
new cham-mom worries! I used to get so freaked out!

 

[Justin Carl]

Hello Wendy!

Their is no need to be worried at all.

You can always count on Kat to supply you with wonderful and useful information.

I really think you should stop the force feedings.
Reptiles can go a very, very, very long time without eatting.
Trust me- I had a 6 month long hunger strike with my male Veiled.
It's just extra stress, and all that causes is more problems.
Like lowering her immune system.
Now about her immune system- Have you had a fecal done yet?
She most likely has parasites, but their is only one way to tell.

She was found in the wild, so you need to consider a few things.
How long was she out in the wild?
Most wild caught chameleons dont like crickets all that much when they are first kept in captivity.
She could be on the small size because she was out in the wild for a while.
Captive females chameleons are usually larger then their wild counterparts.
Maybe she is starting to cycle a fertile, or an infertile clutch.
Females go off food a couple days before they start diging.

I find it unlikely that she stopped eatting because she is going to shed.
Maybe a male, but not a female they are programed to eat.

Best of luck and keep us posted

Justin

 

[wendysjungle]

Wendy,

Is she still pooping regularly?

I wouldn't be too concerned yet. Mine don't eat much for a couple days before a shed, maybe that is what is going on. Are you sure she didn't eat ANY of the crickets in her cage? It is possible that she did (unless you are keeping count) and is just getting enough and not needing to eat the rest.

Also, if you are leaving the crickets in there over night, I would recommend taking them out before bed. Sometimes crickets find sleeping chameleons to be tasty treats, and you don't want that!

I cup feed her, so I always know the count I put in and if she has eaten any. I usually leave them overnight, but they can't get out of the cup to bother her. This rigged up ferret cage makes it almost impossible to find her poop to monitor it. I did see that she pooped on Wednesday and it looked fine, but only because she happened to leave it on one of the upper schefflera leave where I could see if. I've ordered her new cage so that I can actually monitor her poop, but for now I'm lucky if I can even find the poop.

 

[wendysjungle]

I really would not even give it too much of a thought until she has not eaten for 5 days to a week. Veileds can be very strange-my male did not eat for weeks! Maybe get some silkworms or waxworms-they seem to just be very tempting for them!
new cham-mom worries! I used to get so freaked out!

Yes, I'm just heading out to get some alternate feeders for her, to see if I can temp her. It doen't help that I am a parrot owner, and if your parrot doesn't eat, then things are VERY BAD. I have to think in herp mode. My ball python once got out and was loose in my apartment for SIX MONTHS with no possible access to food, and he was fine when I finally found him, and is now going on 10 years old.

Joyce looks very unconcerned about the fact she is about to give me a heart attack!

 

[wendysjungle]

Hello Wendy!

Their is no need to be worried at all.

You can always count on Kat to supply you with wonderful and useful information.

I really think you should stop the force feedings.
Reptiles can go a very, very, very long time without eatting.
Trust me- I had a 6 month long hunger strike with my male Veiled.
It's just extra stress, and all that causes is more problems.
Like lowering her immune system.
Now about her immune system- Have you had a fecal done yet?
She most likely has parasites, but their is only one way to tell.

She was found in the wild, so you need to consider a few things.
How long was she out in the wild?
Most wild caught chameleons dont like crickets all that much when they are first kept in captivity.
She could be on the small size because she was out in the wild for a while.
Captive females chameleons are usually larger then their wild counterparts.
Maybe she is starting to cycle a fertile, or an infertile clutch.
Females go off food a couple days before they start diging.

I find it unlikely that she stopped eatting because she is going to shed.
Maybe a male, but not a female they are programed to eat.

Best of luck and keep us posted

Justin

Thanks Justin. I don't think she was out long, as we have had such a bizarre and cold start to June here in Washington that she would have been in wose shape if she had been out in the 40 degree rain and wind for very long, and the pet shop people said they are back there daily to check the fish ponds and they had not seen her. And I'm pretty sure she was left right there at the pet shop, as she would have had to cross a major highway to get there on her own.

I got the sand for her nest box, so I'll get that set up for her today just in case. She ate lots of crickets her first 4 days with me, so she seems to like them fine.

No fecal done yet. I'm assuming they need a fresh sample, so I'll watch for her poop and grab the next sample I see to take to the vet. I have a great reptile vet just a mile or so away from me, luckily.

I just wasn't sure if it's usual for a cham this young to stop eating? Sounds like maybe not that worrisome?

 

[Brad Ramsey]

I bet she's going to lay eggs.
How hot is that basking spot, by the way?
Make sure that the sand is quite damp (can hold a tunnel) and that she has lots of privacy in the next week or so.
Continue watering but cut food out completely for a couple of days and then try again.
Are her eyes open?
Does she seem restless?

-Brad

 

[wendysjungle]

I bet she's going to lay eggs.
How hot is that basking spot, by the way?
Make sure that the sand is quite damp (can hold a tunnel) and that she has lots of privacy in the next week or so.
Continue watering but cut food out completely for a couple of days and then try again.
Are her eyes open?
Does she seem restless?

-Brad

The little flukers gauge says the temp is around 92 in the basking spot, but I'm going to pick up a better gauge today to see if I can get more accurate temp readings around the cage. Eyes are open and she looks fine. Not restless though, she has been low activity the past couple of days, just hanging out in her schefflera tree all day. She definitely gets lots of privacy, sometimes it takes me 10 minutes to find her to check on her when I get home each evening, there is so much greenery in there!

When the new cage from LLL gets here, should I wait to move her if she is still off her food?

 

[Brad Ramsey]

Can you take a picture of her today and post it?
I know you've read this but :

http://raisingkittytheveiledchameleon.blogspot.com/2007/12/keeping-female-veiled.html

I can only think of 2 reasons why a female veiled wouldn't eat ... she's really ill, or she's about to lay eggs.

Does she seem fat/lumpy?

-Brad

 

[wendysjungle]

She doesn’t look lumpy to me, but I’ve had such a short time, it’s hard to say. Here are some pics. I had to take her out of her cage to get them, so she is PISSED in the first two (but you can see inside her mouth, in case that’s helpful), and then I put her on one of my plants and she calmed right down and started climbing, even though the leaves were pretty slippery.

Here is Joyce pissed:

Here is Joyce REALLY pissed and hissing at me:

Here is Joyce happier, climbing the plant:

How does she look?

 

[Julirs]

I think she looks wonderful-very nice and healthy girl!

 

[Kat77]

Justin is right, I'm not thinking in female mode, she wouldn't stop eating for a shed, girls are piggys...but as Juli said she looks very healthy! My female veiled never laid eggs, and I had her for four and a half years so I honestly have no experience with that. I hope some silk worms work!

 

[wendysjungle]

So glad to hear she looks healthy to everyone!! You know, I think I may just not have had her cage warm enough overall, as she is so much more active now that I added the extra lights. I also added the sand-filled nestbox for her, just in case.

I picked up some superworms for her while I was out (I could not find silkworms ANYWHERE), and she is presently eyeing them with interest. I'll let everybody know if she eats some.......

 

[wendysjungle]

Yeeeeehaw!!!

Two superworms and a cricket, down the hatch! Guess my girl a) likes it warm in her house, and b) likes variety in her diet. Whatever Her Highness commands, I shall do!

What a relief!!! Thanks so much everybody for all your help!

 

[Kat77]

Yay! Triumph! Good job Wendy. I'm glad everything turned out well. Now you both can get some rest!