Is this normal?

jorgegonzl

New Member
Anyone ever witness this?
I find out that he started the MBD (vey very very little almost nothing) so I started to give him high calcium leaves and also to his crickets and he liked it.... but now im seeing this i got this non toxic plant for him that he is eating(to help humidity) and i just wanna know....
 

jorgegonzl

New Member
Anyone ever witness this?
I find out that he started the MBD (vey very very little almost nothing) so I started to give him high calcium leaves and also to his crickets and he liked it.... but now im seeing this i got this non toxic plant for him (to help humidity) and i just wanna know....
 

cyberlocc

Chameleon Enthusiast
Yes eating plants is normal.

I would give more dusting rather than high calcium leaves. Are you dusting with Calcium at all?
 

jorgegonzl

New Member
Yes eating plants is normal.

I would give more dusting rather than high calcium leaves. Are you dusting with Calcium at all?
Yes i am actually.. im feedind him live insects daily but just because of freaking a little i wanted to make a huge step to go to the right way other than gutloading
 

Remkon

Chameleon Enthusiast
MBD (vey very very little almost nothing)
I wonder, is this your own diagnosis or your vet's diagnosis?
Because bend/broken limbs as can be seen especially in the front legs of the chameleon in your profile picture should not be considered 'very very very little almost nothing'.
True, it can get way worse than this but I fear you're underestimating the severity of his situation.
If you haven't already you should take him to a vet.

A read on MBD:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/thr...-like-how-it-happens-and-how-to-fix-it.95071/
 

Brodybreaux25

Chameleon Enthusiast
... and once your done at the vet can you tell us about your lighting, gutloading, and supplement schedule? Maybe a pic of your viv?
 

cyberlocc

Chameleon Enthusiast
Yes i am actually.. im feedind him live insects daily but just because of freaking a little i wanted to make a huge step to go to the right way other than gutloading

Gutloading =/= Dusting, are you Dusting the insects with Calcium powder before feeding them. You should be doing this everyday.
 

jorgegonzl

New Member
I wonder, is this your own diagnosis or your vet's diagnosis?
Because bend/broken limbs as can be seen especially in the front legs of the chameleon in your profile picture should not be considered 'very very very little almost nothing'.
True, it can get way worse than this but I fear you're underestimating the severity of his situation.
If you haven't already you should take him to a vet.

A read on MBD:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/thr...-like-how-it-happens-and-how-to-fix-it.95071/
nope, i actually went to the vet and the vet says that’s he’s totally fine as long as i have to keep up with dusting/gutloading
 

jorgegonzl

New Member
... and once your done at the vet can you tell us about your lighting, gutloading, and supplement schedule? Maybe a pic of your viv?
  1. Crickets dusted without D3 everyday with D3 every 3 or 4 weeks
  2. 5.0 UVB 12hours on only along with a zoo med basking spot 50w
  3. Misting w/ water conditioner very oftenly reaching at least 50% of humidity every day
He is such an active guy, pooping very well and with mostly white spots that means that he is very hydrated.
 

cyberlocc

Chameleon Enthusiast
Like Remcon already said :).

So snails, as a feeder the actual snail, has alot of calcium in them, they love calcium. Then the snails shell, is 100% Calcium Carbonate, and there is quite a bit of it in fact. Likely more in 1 full grown H. aspersa (now C. aspersa, AKA Garden Snail, or Escargot (not actually Escargot, but a close relative and the closest we have in the states)

They need to be fed cuttlebone, as they will just raso it down for their shells and holding calcium, the things love calcium.


Now, going to use a source here, as I have not attempted this yet, but plan to.

I spoke with Petr Nectas, about absconding from dusting, in leu of using snails, 1-2 fully grown, weekly. Obviously dusting with D3, and Vits is still needed. He said, that would be fine. However if your already having calcium issues, maybe dust everything but the snails. And let others test that theory.

It makes since, we put a thin layer, of calcium and most of that is lost before the feeder meets the cham. Snail shells have quite a bit of calcium. I had the suspicion it would be enough, and Petr stated he thought so as well.

To the WC thing, I am not endorsing feeding WC snails, I am still Leary of it.

However, the parasite of issue for the Snails is Rat Lungworm, and a type of Nemotoads, Petr also stated neither of these will have any effect on Chameleons, and WCs should be fine. Take from that what you will. From what I am told, as I am just starting my colony, they are extremely prolific, so breeding them and not feeding WCs shouldn't be too bad.

This last part is controversial, but I am going to provide it anyway. There is a debate going on right now about this in the Snail Facebook group. Tree snails, (hard to keep alive, but legal to ship) require UVB, to survive, period. There is talks of land snails beniefiting from UVB as well, it defiantly doesn't hurt them, so that is a good idea.


A note, Shipping land snails across state lines, is extremely illegal, it carrys up to 5 years in prison. And the USDA actively monitors the snail forums, and the snail groups on Facebook. They do not mess around with snails, it's not like sticks where they really don't enforce it afaik, they are not playing with snails.

So you need to catch them or buy them from someone in your state.

And the parasite, rat lungworm, can affect humans, and dogs. Which is part of the reason they don't play around with snails I think. Being pests is 1 thing, their parasites can kill humans. Wash your hands, before and after holding them, and only hold them with wet hands.
 

Brodybreaux25

Chameleon Enthusiast
Are you? The picture is not showing you how he really is right now, everything can be misunderstood somethines buddy

You are gonna see him :)
That Cham is well into the later stages of MBD. If your vet doesn’t see that then do yourself a favor and get a new one. I am not a vet but I do know MBD when I see it.
 

Syreptyon

Chameleon Enthusiast
Yes, as I mentioned in your first post, that chameleon has very clear signs of MBD and it is definitely not "very very very little," I'm sorry to say. Since you are new to chameleons, it would be easier for everyone if you would be more open-minded to the advice of senior members more seriously. Especially when multiples of us are giving you the same feedback. Not all vets are created equal and from what you've been told, it is clear that your vet is not a chameleon specialist.

I also noticed that you chose not to fill out the help form I provided for you in your first post. Again, please, please fill out this form. It is the best way for us to provide you with feedback for an animal which already is going to have special needs:

Chameleon Info:
  • Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
  • Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
  • Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
  • Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
  • Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
  • Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
  • History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

Cage Info:
  • Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
  • Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
  • Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
  • Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
  • Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
  • Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
  • Location - Where are you geographically located?
 

jorgegonzl

New Member
That Cham is well into the later stages of MBD. If your vet doesn’t see that then do yourself a favor and get a new one. I am not a vet but I do know MBD when I see it.
I never said that he doesnt have it, he has it but my vet said that i have to keep up with the calcium and he will be fine believe me
 
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