Hanging out at bottom of the cage??

[ryanra22]

Hey guys I know I'm probably just being paranoid but I figured I'd fill one of these things out and see what you guys thought about it.

Current Problem: Lately I've been noticing he's been hanging out at the bottom of his cage quite often. I didn't think much of it at first but today I found him on the floor of his cage twice, which kinda freaked me out. When I came to see if he was ok he turned dark dark black, but after a few seconds he scurried up the side of his cage and lightened up. But mainly he's just been hanging out towards the bottom of his cage more often than I'm seeing him up towards the top. I have seen him up there in the morning basking but then usually towards the bottom.

Most likely being paranoid, but I figured you guys have a lot more experience than I do so at the very least this will help ease some of my paranoia/stress!

Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - 4.5 Month Old Ambilobe Male from Bruce at Chameleon Paradise. I've had him for 3 weeks now.
Handling - Have only handled 3-4 times and for 1-2 minutes max.
Feeding - Been feeding predominantly crickets. But also occasional supers, hornworms, and silkworms. He usually eats anywhere between 6-10 crickets a day or 2-3 worms.

Crickets have been gutloaded with a mixture of DinoFuel, Bug Burger, Turnip Greens, Squash, Oranges, Carrots, Bell Peppers, Apples.
Supplements - Have been using the RepCal Brand. Calcium w/D3 once a week, Calcium w/o D3 3-4 times a week, Herptivite 2-3 times a week, Minerall Outdoor Formula 2 times a week. And a Vitamin A Supp 1 time a month.
Watering - Have been hand misting and also letting a dripper run throughout various parts of the day. I've seen my chameleon drink several times.
Fecal Description - Looks fine. Is regularly pooping and urate has always been white, nothing looks odd or different. Has not been tested.


Cage Info:
Cage Type - Screen 16x16x30
Lighting - 40W Heating Bulb and Reptisun 5.0 UVB
Temperature - Currently have a probe at the basking spot, which has been sitting on average around 85-88 degrees. I don't have a thermometer at the bottom of the cage, but there is one in the room he's in which is usually at 70-75. At night temps usually drop to 65-70.
Humidity - Have a hygrometer probe. Humidity is consistently between 50-70%. I have a humidifier running in the room that helps maintain this since its really dry where I live right now.
Plants - 1 Live Umbrella Plant. Some plastic vines/leaves.
Placement - Cage is located in the corner of my bedroom. Low traffic area as I live alone in an apartment with no other animals. There isn't a fan near the cage although the humidifier is probably 3-4ft away from the cage. The cage is on a stand and at least 5ft up in the air (the top of it probably closer to 6ft)
Location - Cleveland, OH

 

[ChameleonFan1989]

It's 100% a male?

 

[ryanra22]

It's 100% a male?

Well it sure looks male to me. Has color and bars showing and I can see a slight bulge near the vent/tail area. And while I'm certainly no expert I feel pretty confident that the breeder I got him from would know he was a male

 

[ChameleonFan1989]

Ok, just inquiring

 

[Dean Pulcini]

Since I've been back I noticed that alot of you over supplement . A chameleon does not need Ca. every day or even 3x a week it's too much. Twice a week for juvies and not so much for adults. With vitamins even less. These small animals cant process that much and ends up being toxic. Also with panthers humidity is not a crucial as say montane species. Just make sure he has a drip to drink from and no misting at night. The cage should dry out between mistings.

 

[ryanra22]

Since I've been back I noticed that alot of you over supplement . A chameleon does not need Ca. every day or even 3x a week it's too much. Twice a week for juvies and not so much for adults. With vitamins even less. These small animals cant process that much and ends up being toxic. Also with panthers humidity is not a crucial as say montane species. Just make sure he has a drip to drink from and no misting at night. The cage should dry out between mistings.

Ok thanks a lot for the feedback! I was just following the supplement routine as suggested by the breeder. I have been very lightly dusting everything. Could you suggest a routine that may work better?

 

[ryanra22]

Ok, just inquiring

Thanks I appreciate it! I was thinking the same thing but I feel pretty confident he's a male

 

[ryanra22]

Ok so I'm thinking maybe changing the supplement schedule to something like this?

Calcium w/D3 - 2x's a month
Herptivite - 2x's a month
Calicum w/o D3 - 2x's a week

Does that seem better? Also keep in mind my cham is only 4.5 months old.

Also for the calcium should I go with the Minerall Outdoor Formula or the Repcal Calicum w/o D3?

Thanks again!

Edit: lol im sorry this is just so confusing. I don't understand how there can be such a widespread difference of opinion on things like this especially when it seems like the wrong amount either way can be very harmful

 

[Elizadolots]

Since I've been back I noticed that alot of you over supplement . A chameleon does not need Ca. every day or even 3x a week it's too much. Twice a week for juvies and not so much for adults. With vitamins even less. These small animals cant process that much and ends up being toxic. Also with panthers humidity is not a crucial as say montane species. Just make sure he has a drip to drink from and no misting at night. The cage should dry out between mistings.

shhhhh....you're not supposed to suggest that....it's verboten

 

[kinyonga]

You said..."A chameleon does not need Ca. every day or even 3x a week it's too much"...dusting with calcium is intended to balance the phos. to calcium ratio of the insects fed to the chameleon...so if the insects you are using "always" have a bad ratio of calcium to phos. doesn't it make sense to dust them each time you feed them to the chameleon with "hopefully" the proper amount to balance them??

 

[Solid Snake]

My guess is that your chameleon is hunting/hiding.

Does he eat all the food offered?

 

[ataraxia]

Since I've been back I noticed that alot of you over supplement . A chameleon does not need Ca. every day or even 3x a week it's too much. Twice a week for juvies and not so much for adults. With vitamins even less. These small animals cant process that much and ends up being toxic. Also with panthers humidity is not a crucial as say montane species. Just make sure he has a drip to drink from and no misting at night. The cage should dry out between mistings.

We see more issues of under supplementing than over supplementing. Just something to think about...

This statement is true to a point...A chameleon does not need Ca every feeding. Will plain phos free calcium everyday cause health issues? No.. Will proformed vitamins twice a month cause issues? No.. Preformed vitamins and certain elements in excess cause problems.

https://www.chameleonforums.com/supplements-uvb-tid-bit-57687/

 

[leviw06]

im just going to ask and put this out there cuz i think im doing something wrong after reading this thread.

Im using curently using Rep-Cal Herptivite w/ beta carotene and Rep-cal Phosphorus-free
calcium w/ Vit d3 powders. The "dosage" on the side of the containers is to mix the two w/ a 1:1 ratio, but does not state how often to dust the insects before feeding.

i'm almost ashamed to be saying this but i've been dusting 6-15 crickets every other day and giving my cham 2 superworms and 6 crickets dusted on my chams the other days.

i've been feeding my crickets with Flucker's orange cube complete cricket diet anlong with giving them roman lettuce, orange peeels, and sliced carrots.

yesterday i've ordered 500 more crickets from one of this sites sponsors, erm i think it was called great lakes hornworms or somethign to that affect. So today i went out and bought Flucker's high calcium cricket diet food and a new dish to put wet sponges in due to the fact that oover thet past few times i have purchased crickets 4-8 get killed by the other. i found out that the Flucker's orange cube doesnt keep the crickets hydrated and thus is the reason for the murders. So i went and bought sponges to keep wet (i cut them up into strips to fit the dishes.

Please tell me what i can do better?!

 

[Solid Snake]

im just going to ask and put this out there cuz i think im doing something wrong after reading this thread.

Im using curently using Rep-Cal Herptivite w/ beta carotene and Rep-cal Phosphorus-free
calcium w/ Vit d3 powders. The "dosage" on the side of the containers is to mix the two w/ a 1:1 ratio, but does not state how often to dust the insects before feeding.
Im not sure why the directions say that, as the product is marketed, and useful, to many different animals, with many different needs. You will need to use a calcium powder W/O D3 on your feeders. You can OD a chameleon with supplemented D3, D3 from UVB cannot be overdone. The calcium is to balance out the calcium an phosphorous ratio of the feeder insects, which is somthing like a ratio of 1:2(cal: phos) for proper calcium absorbtion, a ratio of the opposite is needed, 2:1. So you will need to use that on your feeders most/all of the time. Your cal with D3 should be used no more than twice a month, if it is an indoor animal, just to make sure its getting enough D3. This is a safe amount. The herptivite should be used twice a month as well, one day, one week use the Cal with D3, then one day, the opposite week, use the herptivite.(on just one feeder insect)
(I am assuming you have a veiled, I may be remembering wrong)
i'm almost ashamed to be saying this but i've been dusting 6-15 crickets every other day and giving my cham 2 superworms and 6 crickets dusted on my chams the other days.

i've been feeding my crickets with Flucker's orange cube complete cricket diet anlong with giving them roman lettuce, orange peeels, and sliced carrots.

yesterday i've ordered 500 more crickets from one of this sites sponsors, erm i think it was called great lakes hornworms or somethign to that affect. So today i went out and bought Flucker's high calcium cricket diet food and a new dish to put wet sponges in due to the fact that oover thet past few times i have purchased crickets 4-8 get killed by the other. i found out that the Flucker's orange cube doesnt keep the crickets hydrated and thus is the reason for the murders. So i went and bought sponges to keep wet (i cut them up into strips to fit the dishes.

Please tell me what i can do better?!

Carrot has a lot of Vit A, use it sparingly(once a month or so) as too much vit A can cause edema.
The best thing IMO to keep crickets hydrated is an orange slice. It works awesome, and is easier.
The flukers dry gutload is good for keeping mass amounts of crickets alive(they will eat the crap out of it too) but doesnt provide very good nutrition. I have never used the orange cubes, but it is my understanding they are not very beneficial either.
Dino-Fuel is an awesome product. You can buy good dry gutloads like Cricket Crack, and there are many recipes for making your own as well.
Here is sandrachameleons blog in case you havnt seen it.
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/tags/gutloading.html

 

[kinyonga]

You said..."Carrot has a lot of Vit A, use it sparingly(once a month or so) as too much vit A can cause edema"....veggies contain beta carotene (prOformed vitamin A) which is converted to Vitamin A as needed so I can't see that it would cause edema. PrEformed Vitamin A from animal sources, however is ready to go and can build up in the system and thus cause problems if overdone.

 

[leviw06]

just to make sure i got what you said correctly Solid Snake...

*Use a Calcium podwer without d3 in it all the time on feeders (crickets, superworms, hornworm, ect)
*Use Calcium powder with d3 twice a month
*Use the multi-vitamin twice a month
*alternating between the calcium d3 and muti-vitamin from one week to the next (first week calcium w/ d3 then the next week use the multi-vitamin)
*and only dust 1 feeder not all with the Cal. w/ d3 and/or the multi-vitamin

and yes i have a Femal Veiled Chameleon, Loki.

Thanks for the link. I have not had a chance yet to take a look at it but i will.

and thanky you Solid Snake for the info

 

[leviw06]

You said..."Carrot has a lot of Vit A, use it sparingly(once a month or so) as too much vit A can cause edema"....veggies contain beta carotene (prOformed vitamin A) which is converted to Vitamin A as needed so I can't see that it would cause edema. PrEformed Vitamin A from animal sources, however is ready to go and can build up in the system and thus cause problems if overdone.

how do i know the difference?

 

[kinyonga]

PrOformed vitamin A (beta carotene) can not build up in the system comes from veggies and greens.

PrEformed vitamin A (retinol, retinal, etc.) comes from animal sources (meat, liver, whole milk, cheese, egg, dog food, cat food, etc.) as well as "man-made" sources found in vitamin pills (acetate, palmitate, etc.) and all of these ones can build up in the system and cause problems (MBD, reproductive issues, etc.).

Does that help?

 

[Solid Snake]

PrOformed vitamin A (beta carotene) can not build up in the system comes from veggies and greens.

PrEformed vitamin A (retinol, retinal, etc.) comes from animal sources (meat, liver, whole milk, cheese, egg, dog food, cat food, etc.) as well as "man-made" sources found in vitamin pills (acetate, palmitate, etc.) and all of these ones can build up in the system and cause problems (MBD, reproductive issues, etc.).

Does that help?

It helps me

 

[ryanra22]

My guess is that your chameleon is hunting/hiding.

Does he eat all the food offered?

He usually eats most of what I put in his cage. So if I put like 12 crickets in he will usually eat around 9 give or a take a few some days.

Ok so it sounds like I should definitely cut back on the herptivite and minerall. So I think I'll try herptivite twice a month as opposed to weekly and same with the calcium w/d3.

Thanks so much every one for the help. I know I'm probably just paranoid