breeding

[SonTigerPantherCham]

I don't want to ruffle feathers with this question, but I am curious...
I see people here that even a month ago didn't know anything about chameleons, lighting, housing, feeding I mean basically nothing.

And now less than a month or 2 later they feel they are capable of breeding??? WHY?
Do you think there is money to be made? Homes to be found for all these babies that hopefully will come later in the year?
Please someone enlighten me, help me understand the need for beginners to attempt breeding. Even in the hands of our long time keepers the pitfalls outweigh the successes.
im not bagging on anyone, just trying to understand.

 

[jpricewood]

I don't have an answer but I agree with you. I'm a PhD student working on Florida exotic reptiles. I recently adopted a female Oustalet's chameleon that had recently been a part of a wild Florida population resulting from multiple releases (probably because someone couldn't take care of all their animals).
I consider myself a pretty good herpetologist but was totally unprepared for when it came time for her to lay. I did all of the typical things to do when they are gravid but got a curveball. She is burying herself instead of excavating a true tunnel. It is nerve-racking. She stays buried for hours with no ventilation. How can anyone with limited experience deal with such a situation? I'm still freaking out. Anyways, my point is your right, inexperienced keepers create dead animals or invasive species issues.

 

[byrnesr]

Perhaps these pet owners believe successful breeding is a sign of successful husbandry. Or perhaps its to see those cute little babies grow up into healthy adults. Perhaps its that these dopes are so self centered that the health and well being of animals trusted in their care takes a back seat to what the owner wants. Or perhaps some keepers can follow good advice and proper husbandry techniques, and successfully breed beginner chams.

Although this forum provides a wealth of knowledge, it also provides a sampling of how irresponsible and impetious people can be. By either not providing the correct husbandry or getting cham without any knowledge of the species. If everyone were responsible this world would be a VERY different place. Accept the things you cannot change.

I'm not your road to enlightenment here, but I did wave on your way by. Continue providing your advice and opinions to forum members. You may save a chams life. That's not so bad, is it? Cheers.

 

[DavidBuchan]

Another with no real answer but just agreement. I wouldn't be about to do it if I hadn't now successfully survived 3 batches of Chameleon egg lays with everything intact I've kept Lizards for most of my life now, but never bred any before. I guess you could say that I'm one of those beginners who is just breeding for the challenge of it, but I also want them to have as natural a life as possible (hopefully much extended though!) I couldn't keep a German Shepherd dog - he'd be a beast with no balls, - I'd hate myself for it, lol
I've checked with the 2 different local pet shops where I got mine from, and both would be willing to take some off my hands (I gots to keep at least 1 for myself ). Not going to be making money from this though, I expect..........
I guess the reason I want to breed them is just the same reason I want to keep them......and who doesn't love babies? I was so pleased with my batch of baby locusts I really don't know how I'll cope if I get a good batch of Chams

 

[SonTigerPantherCham]

Thank you Dave for making me laugh
Thank gawd you guys dont have to be the pregger ones or we would have a gazillion more 2 leggeds running around now wouldn't we!!!
Well, after you spit the first one out the human population would die out if only men could carry babies!!!

 

[DavidBuchan]

Thank you Dave for making me laugh
Thank gawd you guys dont have to be the pregger ones or we would have a gazillion more 2 leggeds running around now wouldn't we!!!
Well, after you spit the first one out the human population would die out if only men could carry babies!!!

Lol, I can't tell you for sure obviously, but I reckon that old joke's got it wrong. We're just too competitive........there would be a worse population problem, and a worse drug problem I reckon, so all in all it's probably best the way it is

 

[burnedrose]

I have no freakin' idea. I don't want to ever breed any of my pets, ever! I would be willing to offer stud service to an established breeder to get a different bloodline going through their mix...but I would never want to breed my chameleons myself. I have been raising them for almost 8 years now and I still don't feel comfortable with the whole gravid female/egg laying process. I am always terrified that I will miss the signs or that something will cause her to get eggbound.

 

[Eltortu]

I don't want to ruffle feathers with this question, but I am curious...
I see people here that even a month ago didn't know anything about chameleons, lighting, housing, feeding I mean basically nothing.

And now less than a month or 2 later they feel they are capable of breeding??? WHY?
Do you think there is money to be made? Homes to be found for all these babies that hopefully will come later in the year?
Please someone enlighten me, help me understand the need for beginners to attempt breeding. Even in the hands of our long time keepers the pitfalls outweigh the successes.
im not bagging on anyone, just trying to understand.

...not only breeding, but also giving suggestions on husbandry - lighting, housing, feeding-...is it maybe in 2 -3 months of having a reptile gives them the necessary - not just basic - knowledge to "help" other keepers?...?

 

[heartben]

...not only breeding, but also giving suggestions on husbandry - lighting, housing, feeding-...is it maybe in 2 -3 months of having a reptile gives them the necessary - not just basic - knowledge to "help" other keepers?...?

i guess i would say since i more or less fit into the attempting to help category. i think if you got good information to start off with then you should be able to basically repeat it to help others. thats more or less what these forums are.. same basic questions/problems, same basic responses..

that being said, i will typically take the information i get from more experienced keepers more seriously than someone who just joined. -and i have seen a few bogus responses here and there from new people, so i understand the frustration.

 

[pssh]

Dont bash on people that are only trying to help. There are quite a few aspects of husbandry that can be verbally regurgitated (according to the common consensus on the forum anyways.) Just politely correct someone when you feel what they say is incorrect or not completely true.

To be honest, there are indeed quite a few people that are intelligent enough and committed enough that they probably can successfully breed chameleons (at least the common and easy to breed species) right away. I mean, we had a thirteen year old (a very intelligent and responsible young man) successfully breed and raise a clutch of veileds.

That being said, there are a lot of people that are not quite that bright as well. It just depends.

 

[Eltortu]

Dont bash on people that are only trying to help. There are quite a few aspects of husbandry that can be verbally regurgitated (according to the common consensus on the forum anyways.) Just politely correct someone when you feel what they say is incorrect or not completely true.

To be honest, there are indeed quite a few people that are intelligent enough and committed enough that they probably can successfully breed chameleons (at least the common and easy to breed species) right away. I mean, we had a thirteen year old (a very intelligent and responsible young man) successfully breed and raise a clutch of veileds.

That being said, there are a lot of people that are not quite that bright as well. It just depends.

Well, look who woke up!...

 

[pssh]

I've been busy and out of town. Lots of crazy stuff has been happening.

 

[jim734123]

every pro has to start as an beginner right?

 

[Eltortu]

every pro has to start as an beginner right?

But beginners should comment as pros?

 

[Ace]

Well for a novice keeper like myself, I would only like to breed for the curiosity and fun of it, while also considering the best interest of the babies and maybe even continue the genes of a loved Cham....I mean they are not all right reasons to breed, and breeding all depends on the species,,.. Ex: dogs/cat we don't need, there are plenty in the shelter and rescue organizations, even babies are available.... But chams you can afford a clutch or two


And not to be rude nor offensive.... There are just some people that shouldn't breed or even have offspring for that matter ....

And I'm not talking about stupid people, I'm referring to ignorant, impulsive, greedy people

Cuz stupid people can still learn and progress, but the others that I mentioned wouldn't change anything about themselves.... people who have trouble accepting/ listening to other people will have trouble changing themselves and correct their problems

 

[ataraxia]

this is about to go the direction that this thread already went in.

https://www.chameleonforums.com/misinformation-64801/

sontiger: some new members are experienced keepers. some are not. they will have a lot of good support here to help them through.

 

[bigian]

But beginners should comment as pros?

this isn't rocket science we're dealing with. Though it's not easy at times and there's a lot involved that doesn't mean someone with 3 months experience doesn't have something to share with the brand new cham keeper.

Anyone with a little experience can suggest the right plants to use, UVB bulbs, a general idea of vitamin supplements, misting/hydrating, etc...

Breeding is a whole other thing, making suggestions to the noobs is completely appropriate. You don't need a year of keeping chams to be able to make some suggestions......

 

[Ace]

this isn't rocket science we're dealing with. Though it's not easy at times and there's a lot involved that doesn't mean someone with 3 months experience doesn't have something to share with the brand new cham keeper.

Anyone with a little experience can suggest the right plants to use, UVB bulbs, a general idea of vitamin supplements, misting/hydrating, etc...

Breeding is a whole other thing, making suggestions to the noobs is completely appropriate. You don't need a year of keeping chams to be able to make some suggestions......

I don think Eltortu was referring to what information you post but HOW you post is just as important..... Some actual new owners with 3 month exp.... Act pretty cocky after they get the basic down and easily insult newer members
with the same problems all new owners face..... Some just are constantly Posting as If they know it all.... I admit I was that Person and at the beginning but later realized their isn't really a one way thing to Cham keeping.... The topics you listed are basic generalized GUIDELINES to keep a Cham alive , to make it flourish and thrive is a different story...

 

[Bernie]

I feel the need to comment on this thread. Being a relatively inexperienced keeper myself I still feel I have enough experience and knowledge to advise complete noobs on how to set up a viv. My knowledge has come mostly from this forum (which I am very grateful for) and also from reading books and actual hands on experience with my animals.

I have seen many times new members to this forum who have zero clue about where to start with these animals (often kids) and I am reluctant to keep quiet and let them get on with things and make mistakes for themselves and ultimately the animals.

I have made a few errors in my time when starting up, as I am sure we all have, and if I can help somebody and prevent them from making my mistakes then thats my way of giving something back to the forum.

I have often commented on things but also added that I am no expert.

I have never bred an animal in my life, whether it be an insect or an elephant. In fact I dont even read the breeding section! So anyone that does feel they have this knowledge after a few months shouldnt be allowed to post there IMO. Perhaps there is a way of the Mods managing this?

The fact is that we are all learning whether we have been keeping Chameleons for 1 month or 1 decade and this is the purpose of a forum - to help each other out.

I just wanted to seperate and highlight the difference of the likes of myself from these people you are referring to, SonTigerPantherCham.

 

[DavidBuchan]

I like that it's got a few people being defensive . Nearly everyone on the forum will have posted misleading or erroneous info. at some point.............and we were all total noobs at one point. Us intelligent and dedicated people just have to be on the lookout for over-enthusiasm and viciously nip it in the bud, lol