About to buy...

[TRI0N]

I'm about to buy my first chameleon (Panther) and would like a few tips on doing so.. I plan to buy everything he will need right off without delay.

Now for a few questions on a Aquarium I have my eyes on but first let me say that my tempature zone here is very Hot during the summer and "can" get very cold during the winter time but warm during the day.

The aquarium I'm looking at is a double door front that is about 2 feet high and 18" width by 18" depth. I like this enclosure due to its easy access. But I've been hearing mixed recomendations. Some people say buy screen while others say buy glass to increase humidity. I really like the aquarium but the health of the pet is far more important.

I plan to buy several types of lights and timers. This it will allow me to set different lights (UV/B Basking) to come on during day and night enviorments so that he will have the right lighting and heat created witout having to remember to change the lights. I think I will buy 3 that I will swap lets say A and B for Warm Seasons and C and B for Cold Seasons that will (in attempt) to maintain the enviorment he requires. Oh did I say he? Yes I thinking it will be best suited with a male so correct me now if I'm wrong.

Also I was thinking of installing a misting system that will spray the inside several times a day such as tube system you would find in a garden with a misting atachment on it with a Rain Bird timer that I can make it spay 2 to 3 times a day to help humidity levels and water build-up on the plants.

One one question I have about ice cubes is regarding tempature.. Isn't dripping ice cubs a little too cold? I see people say use Ice cube position above leaves to capture the water. While others say they use a dripper with warm water. I have this feeling ice cubes aren't that great of an idea and second even if there are, ice cube obviously need to be treated either boiled water then frozen or de-clorineze them? However I have not seen anyone say this should be done. I know tap water has clorine in it and shouldn't be used as drinking water for such pets.

Type: Why panther? Well from what I have read Panthers are more of the lower hight type that live in bushes rather then higher up in trees and don't require a huge climb zone. This better fits my arrangement where I want to keep him in my home office where the pets (dogs, cats, hamsters, Chicillie and kids okay kids arn't pets but still) won't be around to stress the heck out of my exotic pet. Correct me if I'm wrong. So a 2.5 Aquarium I think will do the trick.

Okay the key to me is that I'm willing to spend money to make a happy pet. Exo Terra is what I have in mind for my Aquarium. Perhaps I should be saying Habitat rather then Aquarium so I will say habitat from here. Exo Terra also make a screen version of the glass one that I like. Let me pimp a few links at the 2 that have my eyes on. Also even though these have a rock like background in them I was also thinking of attaching green plant like aquarium decall side on the outside to reduce reflection that (from what I hear) will stress him out.

Glass: PT-2607
Screen

Need input on this I want to be abolsolutly sure on what I buy. I don't want to hurt my pet in any shape or form. If I want an animal to die is becasue I killed it and plan to eat it. So I have no intention to make any mistakes here.

Yes I plan to buy all the digital metters to monitor all the zones of the habitat so I will be making sure he is one happy guy.


Feeding: Okay my idea is that I will always keep 1 live cricket loose (dusted) in his enviorment at all times while a clear dish will have 2 assorted (dusted) worms a day for him to be on happy fella. No I know that if I just let loose some 6 or more crickets in his habitat they will eat his flesh.. Not my cup of tea. However what would you say on the number of crickets. Like I said I was only planning on letting loose 1 like one at all times. Something he can hunt and be occupied.

Okay I think that will pretty much cover my lets bring him home questions I will have at this time.. Though I will be like asking the sales guy "Anything else I should get?" questions I know the important ones like don't get a heat rock or pad or height of lamps to pet.


Any input on my concers are very welcomed..

Cheers!

TRI0N

 

[rcagosto]

First what will you start of with, baby, subadult, adult. I wouldnt recommend glass, there is no air flow, and chams need it.

 

[TRI0N]

Sub Adult. Also look at the link for Glass the Top is screen for the lighting system, plus (bonus) the bottom has a venting system for air flow...

 

[rcagosto]

That is too small for a sub adult. Chameleons like to climb. they need more hieght. With a sub depending on age and size maybe a screen cage about 2'x2'x3' then move up to a 2'x2'x4'. Never use ice cubes!!! way to cold for chams!!! A dripper is way more recommended, espcecially if you cant keep humidy up like that. it helps the cham get necesary water. let the water set over night to let chlorine leave. also misting once or twice a day depending on the weather for raising humdity and offeing cham a chance to drink, preferably with warm water. or lsightly heated water. lights can be regular zoomed reptisun 10.0 bulbs for uvb. do not let it be blocked by plastic or glass or uvb will get filtered. for a heat bulb you can use a regular incandesent bulb. make sure you check temps so there is an ambient btween 75 to 80 and a basking from 85 to 90. you going to need branches, cleaned with bleached and put in the oven for a couple of minutes if foun outside, you going to need live plants, pothos, f. benjamina, s. abricola, or a hibicus. some of these plants like f. benjamina or hibiscus can be a pain in the but if not properly taken care of. also put some fake vines, chams like to expore and climb. feeding should be done at once a day, about 10 insects a day dusted with proper things. crickets wont bite unless cham is sleeping and crickets are left over night. they can also be fed silkworms, and roaches as a staple. mealworms can be occasional treats, same with waxworms and butterworms. you going to have to find a dusting schedule suitable to your cham. i recently starting using the dusting schedules from chameleonsonly.com, i cant remember what it is right now, but im sure another membe will jump in later and say. NO HEAT ROCK OR PAD!!!!! if im missing anything else im sure another member might fill it in for me.

 

[TRI0N]

Panters from what I have read at National Geographics are the ones found near the forest floors. They usually are found in bushes and scrubs and not of the higher in tree types. So I'm confussed here as to if a higher habitat will be required for him. They are likey to drop to the ground in large habitats I have read and are a bit more active then other types as well. So getting a tall habitat he will never use does not seem logical.

 

[rcagosto]

sorry you have been misled but the panther chameleon (furcifur pardalis) need the climbing space. i think you should do more research fist before buying. check out www.adcham.com for species info. you can look at some of the members pictures of there set up and you will see. look at some breder sites. this will all help. if not wait till some more members jump in, and even that they will same the same thing about hieght. goodluck. any questions ask.

 

[Ren]

Start over, you have a good basic idea on whats going on and what to expect, but you have to remember National geographic is all about wild animals and these guys which some are wild caught don't always follow by the book as you can ask anyone in here, books have led me the opposite direction a few times... i would rather ask someone who owns a cham to tell me what to expect and so on... check this link out and see what you can get of it... good luck and hoe to hear more from you soon.. with pictures...https://www.chameleonforums.com/general-care-true-chameleons-5943/

 

[Julirs]

Completely misled, though not your fault. There is alot of bad info out there. A full gown male panther will need optimally a 2X2X4 cage. Your average full size bush or small tree will fit in there quite nicely. I have a large schefflera and ficus in mine. Truly optimally you would have something with more horizontal space being at least 4 feet tall because they like to roam accross the top also. There are many great Canadian breeders out there who use screen cages with some solid sizes and or cover with plastic when it gets colder to keep the heat gradient where it should be. Exoterra glass terrariums are way to small to be of any use.

 

[TRI0N]

Okay now my "basic" understanding and the information that you pointed out again says tree/bush climber. Now I plan to run all kinds of vines and branches all over inside the habitat allowing him to climb all over the place. But in personal theory and from what I have read they climb to increase body temp. So if he (kinda like the looks of a female which leads to a new question) climbs and achives a tempature he desires why whould he require more reason to climb? Do they not sit and bath in this heat (temp) and then climb down to lower his temp in needed?

The location I have built for his cage is not on the ground.. So visual appearence to height will be 5 to 6 feet up from the ground on the shelf I have installed. So even with a false sence of high location and knowing their sensors are located on their back to detect heat his need to climb higher seems questionable. Why would he need to climb higher if he has achived a comfortable body temp in the location of the envirment that I will be directing heat?

Now in question toward female and male. I like how the female looks compared to the male snoot. But I have read that some of them will lay eggs without the presence of a male. Yikes. 1) I don't want to freak it out my removing its eggs. 2) I don't want any unexpected hatchlings appearing out of no where. Basiclly I don't have any intention to farm them. I just want to take one home and make it happy and enjoy it. So an information about if the Panther species is able to lay eggs without the means of a male would be very nice to know.

I'm not about to install a 6' cage in my office and don't see why it would require any more means of climbing if its looking to gain body temp. I will no doubt like I said have allot of things for it to climb up and about but really don't know why other then its need to increase body temp that height needs to be any more then the gain that body temp. If he needs to move about then there will be plenty of ways for it to move from one branch to another or a vine to do so. Unlike the sun it move their need to move to remain in direct contact with sun rays would mean it needs to move but if such light sorce is stationary I don't see a reason that this species needs to gain higher ground.

I thank you for your imputs and indeed they are noted but I'm still not in compete understanding why vertical needs are required if body temp is the reason they climb.

 

[Julirs]

Basically it would be like keeping a Great Dane in a Beagle size cage. The cages you are looking at are 18X18X24. A full grown Panther an reach 18 inches in some cases. ( I have an 18" 10 month old Veiled.) So he would be much too large for the cage. All glass will cause respiratory infections and it is way too difficult to keep temps right in a small cage like that with the basking temps they will need-the entire cage would heat up too hot to reach the right temps. Have you seen a full size Panther? You need to talk/visit a breeder before you make any decisions. Females will lay eggs that are not-fertilized with no male, but the process is incredibly hard on them. If you do not intend to breed than a male is the only way to go.

 

[TRI0N]

No I have not seen a full size panther and see that it gains to 13" but that is if its tail that is normally wound up is extended and if extented is wrapped around a branch. The habitat that I have pointed out is actually designed for "a" Chameleon and I'm not looking to install some huge habitat. But if needed and with reasons that explain why it is needed I will do so but the habitats offered by this company are very high quality and I like quality. But if that is absolutlly not feisable to the enviorment for its needs then I will have to look at other options and remove the installed location I have set for him. However other concers I have about them is also needed for in my first post, need more input and would like more comments on them aswell. Keep them coming. I do appreciate all of your inputs and suggestions just don't want to install anything more then what will be needed to make this pet happy.

 

[Julirs]

I plan to buy several types of lights and timers. This it will allow me to set different lights (UV/B Basking) to come on during day and night enviorments so that he will have the right lighting and heat created witout having to remember to change the lights. I think I will buy 3 that I will swap lets say A and B for Warm Seasons and C and B for Cold Seasons that will (in attempt) to maintain the enviorment he requires. Oh did I say he? Yes I thinking it will be best suited with a male so correct me now if I'm wrong.
As far as lighting you will need a flouresent tube style Reptisun 5.0 (most recommended) and a basking light of some kind. I use regular household bulbs. A good thermometer with a probe is absolutely essential to check temps. No night lighting or heating if temps are above 60-65. Most people say if temps fall below that you need to heat the room the cage is in and not the cage, but the night drops in temp are very good for your cham.Also I was thinking of installing a misting system that will spray the inside several times a day such as tube system you would find in a garden with a misting atachment on it with a Rain Bird timer that I can make it spay 2 to 3 times a day to help humidity levels and water build-up on the plants.
Misters make life easier.
One one question I have about ice cubes is regarding tempature.. Isn't dripping ice cubs a little too cold? I see people say use Ice cube position above leaves to capture the water. While others say they use a dripper with warm water. I have this feeling ice cubes aren't that great of an idea and second even if there are, ice cube obviously need to be treated either boiled water then frozen or de-clorineze them? However I have not seen anyone say this should be done. I know tap water has clorine in it and shouldn't be used as drinking water for such pets.
No ice cubes.
Type: Why panther? Well from what I have read Panthers are more of the lower hight type that live in bushes rather then higher up in trees and don't require a huge climb zone. This better fits my arrangement where I want to keep him in my home office where the pets (dogs, cats, hamsters, Chicillie and kids okay kids arn't pets but still) won't be around to stress the heck out of my exotic pet. Correct me if I'm wrong. So a 2.5 Aquarium I think will do the trick.

Okay the key to me is that I'm willing to spend money to make a happy pet. Exo Terra is what I have in mind for my Aquarium. Perhaps I should be saying Habitat rather then Aquarium so I will say habitat from here. Exo Terra also make a screen version of the glass one that I like. Let me pimp a few links at the 2 that have my eyes on. Also even though these have a rock like background in them I was also thinking of attaching green plant like aquarium decall side on the outside to reduce reflection that (from what I hear) will stress him out.

Glass: PT-2607
Screen

Need input on this I want to be abolsolutly sure on what I buy. I don't want to hurt my pet in any shape or form. If I want an animal to die is becasue I killed it and plan to eat it. So I have no intention to make any mistakes here.

Yes I plan to buy all the digital metters to monitor all the zones of the habitat so I will be making sure he is one happy guy.


Feeding: Okay my idea is that I will always keep 1 live cricket loose (dusted) in his enviorment at all times while a clear dish will have 2 assorted (dusted) worms a day for him to be on happy fella. No I know that if I just let loose some 6 or more crickets in his habitat they will eat his flesh.. Not my cup of tea. However what would you say on the number of crickets. Like I said I was only planning on letting loose 1 like one at all times. Something he can hunt and be occupied.
Mine will eat about 6 large adult size crickets in the morning with silkworms and superworms throughout the day. I do not cup feed,but many people do. Some chams will not cup feed.
Okay I think that will pretty much cover my lets bring him home questions I will have at this time.. Though I will be like asking the sales guy "Anything else I should get?" questions I know the important ones like don't get a heat rock or pad or height of lamps to pet.

 

[TRI0N]

Excellent!

Okay I'll fold under pressure here and I want (like I said a happy enviroment) to make my pet very happy...

Large Habitat

Please give input. I will stick with the high quality temp meters and humidity meeters and will re-locate the location in my office the room needed for this.. My home office is not small (30 x 25 feet) and will move a computer as needed. Gotta love computers since they make kick butt humidity locations (I have a total of 5 in my office) to create a very warm climate.

Okay in terms of the Sub-Adult. I was goint to buy mine from Pet Co. and they will be in next week. They have a policy there where they won't take them earlier then 2 months after birth. Since that is their breeding time I will be only set to get a Sub-Adult (this is a term used here so I will use it) to buy from them. My understanding is they hatch at the end of summer and I'm looking for something yound enough to grow into its enviorment I have set and not too young to where it does not have the instints to hunt and feel confident enough. So I'm not looking to find something that will die young and/or too use to enviorment that its not already custom to. I want it to feel very secure and stress free. So soon as they get the new batch I want to give it a much greater enviorment then one that Pet Co. attempt to put them in for display and don't want any side effects that can happen if they stay in such an enviorment too long.

Sorry for my extreme responses and questions. I was a science major and I have this nit-pick problem to know all reasons for anything needed to make things happen. Working at the time of my posts on things kinda just typed like a bat out of hell. Just spent like a lump sum of money on my family to get pets they want and I'm preping to get what I want so I'm just making sure I do this right. So don't slap me with any wet diapers in the process. TeeHee..

Input, Input and more Input.. I love the comments and again thanks for what you have all contributed to.

 

[Julirs]

From one Science (Biology) major to another-I completely understand. And also from someone who started out doing this wrong in many ways. This forum is great and has helped me so much.
The Reptariums are good-I have 3 in use right now. Another options is this:

http://lllreptile.com/store/catalog...ges/-/24-x-24-x-36-inch-aluminum-screen-cage/
They come in black also,and paired with a black flourescent light hood and a pretty ceramic pot you can create a good cham home and an office showpiece. In many ways the screen cages are better, more sturdy, you an see through them alot easier, and there are more ways to create drainage systems esp. if you have a mister. Reptariums need more lighting due to the dark mesh, no where to attach basking lamps, but I surely think that it is easier to drag one of those things out for a good hosing off and cleaning then a heavy screen cage. I also think they maintain humidity better. After I clean today I will post pics of both to give you a better idea.

 

[TRI0N]

Oh and pictures... I have plans to even do a web-cam 24/7 of my pet so pictures will also be presented along with its video feed. So expect to see plenty of media once I gat him home.

 

[SierraNevada]

lights can be regular zoomed reptisun 10.0 bulbs for uvb.

I had a long conversation on the use of 10.0 UVB bulbs with Kammer of Kammerfladge Kreations. The expermentation with these bulbs didn't turn out well. There were some bad reactions, eye problems, skin problems, etc with this level of UVB.

Based on this, I wouldn't recommend the use of these bulbs and would stick with the 5.0 which is tried and true.

 

[rcagosto]

are you talking about compact 10.0 bulbs? i have heard the same, i use the long tubes because it spreads out. its true that a compact bulb is bad because too much uv b in one concetrated spot is alot for a cham. the long floresecnt i think are fine hasnt cause me any problems yet.

 

[Julirs]

I use 10.0s on Reptariums. Someone tested one with a UVB meter and the dark mesh definitley filters out rays. In most other cases I think 5.0 is a good way to go.

 

[SierraNevada]

They tried both...and they were pretty adamate about not using them. I use a 10.00 24" bulb in a reflective fixture for my water turtles with no ill effects. However, that's apples and oranges.

 

[TRI0N]

Okay my current Check List

Reptarium $72.99 (1)
Fluker's Clamp-Lamps 10" $15.99 (2)
Zoo Med Repti Basking Spot Lamp 2 Bulb Value Packs $16.99 (1 w/extra)
ESU Reptile Bask N Heat Ceramic Infrared Heat Emitter 40w Night Time heat source if needed. $27.99 (1)
Zoo Med Repti Sun 5.0 Fluorescent Lamps $36.00 (1)
Fluker's All New Digital Display Thermo-Hygrometer $22.99 (2)
Spray Bottle $3.99
Cricket Keeper 150 $19.99
Zoo Med ReptiSafe Instant Terrarium Water Conditioners $6.74
Clear Shallow Plastic Dish to place Worms in.
T-Rex 2:0 Calcium/No Phosphorus Supplement Carnivorous Reptile Formula $7.49
Zilla Green Terrarium Liner For Reptiles $9.99
Lots of branches and vines (silk and real).

Can't find online but will get the following:
Gut Feeder for Crickets. If natural spinish, calintro and greens are better then I will use but I fear I have no control over if any pesticides are used and think a formulated feed for crickets may be the best choice.

Spay system that I will either build or buy that will support the size of Habitat. All I have found is 30 galon max aquarium spay systems. By far too small.

My lighting idea will be have the Flouresent light and basking lamp on during the day. Then at night have them turn off and if needed use the IR light to produce any needed heat during cold winter days. Input or advise welcomed.

Flooring. I have read over and over again natural flooring will increase humidity but is dangerous to the pet if digested. So I picked this artificial flooring that can't be digested. Input or advise welcomed.

Please feel free to add input to any of the items I have listed. Most are linked to the product I will buy. The dust supliment I picked based on it being Phosphorus free since crickets and most worms will already provide this and don't need to over due its intake.

Also I have read that it is wise to dust everyday while some say 2-3 times a week. Whichever is better let me know and I will follow it.

I also read that the UV/B light should be not always on and should be used more on the lines of 30 mins to an hour a day. I will be purchasing digital timers that will allow me to program several time on and off settings each day.

All input welcomed.