Why is our Panther Chams mouth open?

[CatJ]

Hi,
New member here looking for advice please.

My female panther chameleon is spending a lot of time with her mouth open and tongue out slightly. We've just lost our male to a respiratory infection so I've already rushed her to a vet, and she's been given the all clear from that.

But a week later, she is still spending lots of time open mouthed. Why?

We wondered whether she was seeing her reflection and trying to be threatening, but she's not changing colour so that seems unlikely. Although she does puff out her throat.

She's eating and drinking plenty, but she has missed a couple of tongue strikes and seems to have struggled to detach her tongue from my hand when she's got me instead of the food. (She's not always hand fed, just when she has the occasional wax worm, she normally has locusts which she hunts on her own).

We've only had chams for 9 months, so would really appreciate some advice from experienced owners.

Pics of her and her viv attached

 

[Beppo]

Is it possible she sprained her tongue when she shot it at you? That’s the only thing I could think of… you should try searching tongue issue on here, I’ve heard of things like that happening when their tongue sticks to your hand and you jerk back or because she struggled to pull it back off of you? I am just making speculations, but while you wait for someone with more knowledge it may be something to look into

 

[GrannyK]

Hi and welcome to the forum! Sorry to hear of your male and the current issues with your girl. I’m no expert but you’re in good hands here on the forum. A few things that stick out to me is, they may ask is what supplements you’re using and your lighting set up. Can you take a pic of your supplements and what light fixtures are you using for heat and uvb? We have an ask for help form that may be helpful , I’ll attach it below. Just copy and paste with your answers.
Good luck with her.

Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. long has it been in your care?How
Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

Cage Info:
Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
Location - Where are you geographically located?

 

[Flick boy]

Hi,
New member here looking for advice please.

My female panther chameleon is spending a lot of time with her mouth open and tongue out slightly. We've just lost our male to a respiratory infection so I've already rushed her to a vet, and she's been given the all clear from that.

But a week later, she is still spending lots of time open mouthed. Why?

We wondered whether she was seeing her reflection and trying to be threatening, but she's not changing colour so that seems unlikely. Although she does puff out her throat.

She's eating and drinking plenty, but she has missed a couple of tongue strikes and seems to have struggled to detach her tongue from my hand when she's got me instead of the food. (She's not always hand fed, just when she has the occasional wax worm, she normally has locusts which she hunts on her own).

We've only had chams for 9 months, so would really appreciate some advice from experienced owners.

Pics of her and her viv attached

Hi and welcome to the forum. So firstly what lights are you using, looks like coil uvb ? ( these are not recommended as they do not provide enough uvb ,I will add the correct one ( either an arcadia t5ho 6% or a zoomed t5 ho 5% , if your chameleon is sitting with mouth open open / gapping maybe a sign she is too hot ,what temperature is in your viv at basking? If you get a chance it would be helpful to fill out the husbandry form provided by the other member .

 

[CatJ]

Answering all as best I can:

Your Chameleon - female panther, approx 9mths old. I've had her since April this Yr.
Handling - 15mins each day as trying to desensitise her
Feeding - med- large locusts. She eats 5-6 a day dep on size. Occassional waxworm, locusts dusted with revitaliseD3 (pic below).
Watering -i dont often catch her drinking but she signs no signs of dehydration. I have an automatic misting system in place to coat the bushy leaves with droplets every 5hrs for 20 seconds.
Fecal Description --long and brown with the white bit attached. No orange tints at all and always look slightly wet when fresh.
History --came straight from a reptile store so we'reher first proper owners

Cage Info:
Cage Type - exoterra glass viv, med x-tall. Pictured in this thread with her in it.
Lighting - lights on 12hrs/day, then off overnight. Ceramic (no light) basking lamp on at all times.
Temperature - 27oC approx 1/3 way down on the heat lamp side. So will be heater higher up u der the lamp and cooler lower down. Measured with permanent thermometer in the viv.
Humidity - 50-60% daytimes and I've seen this increase to 70-75% at night.
Plants - no live plants
Placement - living room. This room isn't used during the day 5days/week so she has peace n quiet. I even stop our dog being in there. We use the room in the evening but she's in her leaves asleep by 7.30 anyway.
Location - plymouth, UK

 

[CatJ]

Hi and welcome to the forum. So firstly what lights are you using, looks like coil uvb ? ( these are not recommended as they do not provide enough uvb ,I will add the correct one ( either an arcadia t5ho 6% or a zoomed t5 ho 5% , if your chameleon is sitting with mouth open open / gapping maybe a sign she is too hot ,what temperature is in your viv at basking? If you get a chance it would be helpful to fill out the husbandry form provided by the other member .

Thankyou for your help. I've filled in the form as best I can.
We've cooled her viv by 3 degrees c to test that earlier this week as we thought the same. Doesn't seem to have made a difference tho. If anything, she's showing this behaviour more. I'll see if I can find the box for the uvb light as I can't remember which it is. It came with the set up when we bought her from a reptile store.

 

[CatJ]

Hi and welcome to the forum! Sorry to hear of your male and the current issues with your girl. I’m no expert but you’re in good hands here on the forum. A few things that stick out to me is, they may ask is what supplements you’re using and your lighting set up. Can you take a pic of your supplements and what light fixtures are you using for heat and uvb? We have an ask for help form that may be helpful , I’ll attach it below. Just copy and paste with your answers.
Good luck with her.

Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. long has it been in your care?How
Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

Cage Info:
Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
Location - Where are you geographically located?

Thankyou. I've copied and answered as best I can. We were gutted to loose our boy so I rushed her straight to our vet when I saw this behaviour! Pic of the supplement we use attached

 

[CatJ]

Viv size:

Exo Terra Med/X-Tall 60x45x90cm​

 

[Flick boy]

Thankyou. I've copied and answered as best I can. We were gutted to loose our boy so I rushed her straight to our vet when I saw this behaviour! Pic of the supplement we use attached

Ok so I'm going to touch on a couple of points. Do you have the ceramic on day and night, is it on a thermostat? I would personally recommend a normal white heat light instead of a ceramic, no heat at night ( they need / benefit from a good temperature drop at night unless your house drops below 10c , fecal good , the white urates indicates hydration, slight yellow colour is ok , orange dehydrated. Enclosure will need upgrading to a minimum 2x2x4 for an adult panther, you will need to provide a lay bin as females produce eggs like chickens irregardless of ever being mated, with your revitalise d3 this is only 1 of three supplements ( please visit arcadia supplements routine) which you will require earth pro a and cal mg . Placing your temperature probe on your basking branch will give you a better idea of temperature, komodo dual gauge probes are good and pretty accurate, this has two temperature probe and a humidity probe

 

[Bazelthechameleon]

The first thing that stands out to me about your husbandry is improper supplementation. You want to use a calcium WITHOUT D3 on the daily and use the D3 as a vitamin supplement once every 2 weeks. This is because chameleons can overdose on vitamin D3. The tongue issue can be attributed to an injury or the cage being too hot as other members have said. What is the temp at the branch directly under the basking lamp?

 

[Bazelthechameleon]

Do you have a UVB bulb in addition to your heat lamp?

 

[Flick boy]

Hi I'm attaching this as there isn't really enough branches or plant cover for your girl to get away from the uv or heat with exoterra, glass not having any mesh other than the top there isn't really great air flow , and will hold the heat creating a hotbox of stagnant air

 

[CalamityCrow]

Answering all as best I can:

Your Chameleon - female panther, approx 9mths old. I've had her since April this Yr.
Handling - 15mins each day as trying to desensitise her
Feeding - med- large locusts. She eats 5-6 a day dep on size. Occassional waxworm, locusts dusted with revitaliseD3 (pic below).
Watering -i dont often catch her drinking but she signs no signs of dehydration. I have an automatic misting system in place to coat the bushy leaves with droplets every 5hrs for 20 seconds.
Fecal Description --long and brown with the white bit attached. No orange tints at all and always look slightly wet when fresh.
History --came straight from a reptile store so we'reher first proper owners

Cage Info:
Cage Type - exoterra glass viv, med x-tall. Pictured in this thread with her in it.
Lighting - lights on 12hrs/day, then off overnight. Ceramic (no light) basking lamp on at all times.
Temperature - 27oC approx 1/3 way down on the heat lamp side. So will be heater higher up u der the lamp and cooler lower down. Measured with permanent thermometer in the viv.
Humidity - 50-60% daytimes and I've seen this increase to 70-75% at night.
Plants - no live plants
Placement - living room. This room isn't used during the day 5days/week so she has peace n quiet. I even stop our dog being in there. We use the room in the evening but she's in her leaves asleep by 7.30 anyway.
Location - plymouth, UK

Hello and welcome! There's been some good info given here but it may be sort of confusing.

One of the best places to start is here: https://chameleonacademy.com/panther-chameleon-care/

The Chameleon Academy is an absolutely fantastic resource that's the most up to date husbandry on chams that you'll find.

Seeing what you have here, there are a few things you want to change immediately.

Temperature: If your temperature is 27C about 1/3 of the way down the cage, and your cham can get higher up than that, she's FAR too hot. 27 is about the warmest you want to have her at her basking spot, which I suspect is much closer to the top of her cage. You want this to help manage the eggs she'll be producing - lower heat means less hungry, and less food means fewer eggs, which results in a much longer lifespan for our lovely ladies. For the heat, most folks use a 60 watt incandescent bulb for their heat. The reptile bulbs tend to get WAY too hot, and a ceramic heater can risk that as well. Additionally, turn the heat off when her lights go off. As the Chameleon Academy website mentions, chams need a pretty significant temperature drop and it's safe (encouraged) for the temps to drop as low as 15-21C. This is LIKELY why she's gaping so much if an RI was ruled out - she's too hot. Also her pictures show her very pale, and they go as pale as they can when they're too warm as well.

Lighting: Flickboy mentioned an update to lighting. The light you have looks like a spiral UVB bulb. Unfortunately, those don't give off any usable UVB for most chams, and they're not recommended at all. It's possible that some of her tongue issues are due to lack of proper UVB. This is something I would also immediately correct. Like mentioned above, you want a linear UVB bulb with a 6% UVB rating. The most popular ones are the Arcadia T5HO 6% or the Zoomed T5. Arcadia is best because you only have to change the bulbs out about once a year. Zoomed, you need to change them every six months. Most folks get the 24" light. Your gal may be suffering early signs of metabolic bone disease from lack of UVB, which enables her to create natural D3 and properly absorb calcium. Without proper calcium absorption, the body takes it from it bones and organs instead, and this can lead to defects in limbs, casque, tail, tongue function, etc. IT's also rather painful for them so proper UVB is absolutely CRUCIAL.

Supplements: Another thing that you need to change are the supplements. What you have been dusting your locusts with is something with D3. THis can also be contributing to the issues with aim/tongue use. As mentioned above, you need to be dusting your feeders with calcium ONLY, with no D3. D3 takes a long time to process out of a cham's body, so I'd stop supplementing with that for a month or two to see if there's improvement, instead swapping to the calcium-only powder.

Less critical:

Cage: You definitely want a bigger cage. Something like 60x60x120cm or thereabouts. You also want to make sure you have good airflow in the cage. Many people use screen cages, but I have a "hybrid" cage and a fan on the screened top, with a small screened area on the bottom. This creates a "chimney" effect and allows the cage to dry out entirely between mistings. This is crucial to prevent RIs.

Feeders: I didn't see anything about what you feed your feeders. Making sure to feed your locusts the proper foods will go a LONG way in maintaining your cham's health. Chameleon Academy has some good recommendations for what to feed them. Things like mustard greens, collard greens, some carrots and sparingly adding some fruits will give your bugs happy full stomachs, and give your cham what she needs.

Humidity: 50% is the upper range that you want for your panther cham. See about lowering that during the day and shifting that humidity towards the nighttime.

Lay Bin: I'm going to tag in @kinyonga, @Beman, and @MissSkittles to discuss a lay bin and share their expertise on the nature of female chams from that perspective.

Overall though, PLEASE read through Chameleon Academy and really chew on the information there. It's fantastic info and it's set up in a way that's very easy to understand, with suggestions for products and setups that will do your cham wonderfully well.


I know that's a lot! But please let us know if you have any questions. There's more to learn for sure, but if you correct your lighting, heat, and supplementation ASAP your cham should make quite a positive change.

 

[Reptar313]

^ very good info and well put

 

[CatJ]

Hello and welcome! There's been some good info given here but it may be sort of confusing.

One of the best places to start is here: https://chameleonacademy.com/panther-chameleon-care/

The Chameleon Academy is an absolutely fantastic resource that's the most up to date husbandry on chams that you'll find.

Seeing what you have here, there are a few things you want to change immediately.

Temperature: If your temperature is 27C about 1/3 of the way down the cage, and your cham can get higher up than that, she's FAR too hot. 27 is about the warmest you want to have her at her basking spot, which I suspect is much closer to the top of her cage. You want this to help manage the eggs she'll be producing - lower heat means less hungry, and less food means fewer eggs, which results in a much longer lifespan for our lovely ladies. For the heat, most folks use a 60 watt incandescent bulb for their heat. The reptile bulbs tend to get WAY too hot, and a ceramic heater can risk that as well. Additionally, turn the heat off when her lights go off. As the Chameleon Academy website mentions, chams need a pretty significant temperature drop and it's safe (encouraged) for the temps to drop as low as 15-21C. This is LIKELY why she's gaping so much if an RI was ruled out - she's too hot. Also her pictures show her very pale, and they go as pale as they can when they're too warm as well.

Lighting: Flickboy mentioned an update to lighting. The light you have looks like a spiral UVB bulb. Unfortunately, those don't give off any usable UVB for most chams, and they're not recommended at all. It's possible that some of her tongue issues are due to lack of proper UVB. This is something I would also immediately correct. Like mentioned above, you want a linear UVB bulb with a 6% UVB rating. The most popular ones are the Arcadia T5HO 6% or the Zoomed T5. Arcadia is best because you only have to change the bulbs out about once a year. Zoomed, you need to change them every six months. Most folks get the 24" light. Your gal may be suffering early signs of metabolic bone disease from lack of UVB, which enables her to create natural D3 and properly absorb calcium. Without proper calcium absorption, the body takes it from it bones and organs instead, and this can lead to defects in limbs, casque, tail, tongue function, etc. IT's also rather painful for them so proper UVB is absolutely CRUCIAL.

Supplements: Another thing that you need to change are the supplements. What you have been dusting your locusts with is something with D3. THis can also be contributing to the issues with aim/tongue use. As mentioned above, you need to be dusting your feeders with calcium ONLY, with no D3. D3 takes a long time to process out of a cham's body, so I'd stop supplementing with that for a month or two to see if there's improvement, instead swapping to the calcium-only powder.

Less critical:

Cage: You definitely want a bigger cage. Something like 60x60x120cm or thereabouts. You also want to make sure you have good airflow in the cage. Many people use screen cages, but I have a "hybrid" cage and a fan on the screened top, with a small screened area on the bottom. This creates a "chimney" effect and allows the cage to dry out entirely between mistings. This is crucial to prevent RIs.

Feeders: I didn't see anything about what you feed your feeders. Making sure to feed your locusts the proper foods will go a LONG way in maintaining your cham's health. Chameleon Academy has some good recommendations for what to feed them. Things like mustard greens, collard greens, some carrots and sparingly adding some fruits will give your bugs happy full stomachs, and give your cham what she needs.

Humidity: 50% is the upper range that you want for your panther cham. See about lowering that during the day and shifting that humidity towards the nighttime.

Lay Bin: I'm going to tag in @kinyonga, @Beman, and @MissSkittles to discuss a lay bin and share their expertise on the nature of female chams from that perspective.

Overall though, PLEASE read through Chameleon Academy and really chew on the information there. It's fantastic info and it's set up in a way that's very easy to understand, with suggestions for products and setups that will do your cham wonderfully well.


I know that's a lot! But please let us know if you have any questions. There's more to learn for sure, but if you correct your lighting, heat, and supplementation ASAP your cham should make quite a positive change.

Wow, thank you so much! That's a lot of info to process so I'll get to work ASAP.
The basking lamp is on a thermostat so I can lower that immediately. We've already turned off 1 of the heat bulbs due to the warm weather here. But I didn't know the viv was still too hot. I've been following internet and the reptiles stores guidelines but they've not mentioned the diff between male n female temps, so that's amazing info.
Regarding a lay bin, I have a built up reptile safe soil area at the bottom. I was advised to do this from day 1 and have always kept this really deep so she has plenty of room to dig and lay. Would I be better changing this too? I'll post some more pics of the viv set up inc the bulbs etc

 

[CatJ]

Lots more pics attached. Thankyou all sooo much for your help

 

[CatJ]

Do you have a UVB bulb in addition to your heat lamp?

Do you have a UVB bulb in addition to your heat lamp?

Hi, yes we do. I've added lots more pics of the lighting I have in place to show heat and uvb source. Really hoping I can get this right!

 

[Bazelthechameleon]

Hi, yes we do. I've added lots more pics of the lighting I have in place to show heat and uvb source. Really hoping I can get this right!

hiya! Coil uvb bulbs tend to not provide sufficient uvb for chams. I’d recommend a linear uvb bulb. @CalamityCrow already recommended the ideal bulb. I’d recommend purchasing this asap! I hope you see your issue resolve soon and your cham thrives with these new setup changes!

 

[kinyonga]

Lay bin set up…this is one way to do it…


The best sand I’ve found it this one…in my experience, it has never lead to an impaction if ingested or to eye infections if it gets in the chameleon’s eye and it holds a tunnel well…
https://can.sika.com/en/do-it-yours...ingproducts/sands-gravels/king-play-sand.html

You said…”Regarding a lay bin, I have a built up reptile safe soil area at the bottom. I was advised to do this from day 1 and have always kept this really deep so she has plenty of room to dig and lay. Would I be better changing this too?”…I’ve always found the sand works better…they seem to like it for a substrate to lay eggs in. What is on the other “half” of the floor of the cage…it looks like it has some bark chips in it.

 

[CalamityCrow]

Lots more pics attached. Thankyou all sooo much for your help

Thanks for the pics! Yes, you definitely need to update that bulb ASAP. Your cham isn't getting any good UVB and she desperately needs it. I'd also not have anything in the bottom of the cage that would be big enough to eat, and then cause an impaction. Bark chips are not a good idea to have, but soil (organic, without anything extra in it) would be okay I think. I don't know a ton about bioactive enclosures though.

how are you doing your feeding? I recommend some version of cup feeding. I have a little bird bowl in my cage for mine and he knows to go right for it when it's feeding day. Some folks use a "shooting gallery" (something like this: https://www.rainbowmealworms.net/shooting-gallery-chameleon-feeder/ sorry... not sure where to get stuff outside of the states!) but something where you can keep track of what they're eating is ideal. It keeps your feeders from escaping or from trying to nibble on your cham while she sleeps.

Hopefully you've had some time to go through the Chameleon Academy.

Has she done any better since lowering the heat?