Why can’t i hold my cham anymore

[kped]

My now 6month old baby Veiled Cham was just moved from a 20-40 gal “fish tank” (which she stayed in for 3 months) to a stand up net cage half the size of the first tank (she’s been in the new cage for almost a month now) .. thinking she would like to climb that more instead of trying to climb glass and scaring her by lifting the top off everytime i have to feed her .. ever since i moved her into her new cage she refuses to let me hold her which is odd because everyday since i got her i would take her out for 5-10 mins and let her roam and climb me... i got close by hand feeding i gained some trust back but she still flares up and hisses when i try to let her climb my hand am i doing something wrong? there isn’t a ton of vines only because they’re EXPENSIVE i’d say 5-6 fake plants hanging but i doubt that’s what it is because she had even less in the bigger tank just a background to make it feel more full if that makes sense (i have no pictures of the big tank with the backdrop unfortunately)

 

[kinyonga]

Please answer the questions in the how to ask for help thread near the top of the health forum. You need to make some changes to your caging.

Moving her from one dage to the other or rearranging the cage she's in both put her in a new "territory" and she has to get used to it again which may make her standoffish.

Post a couple of bigger photos of her please.

Are you aware that female veileds can produce eggs without having mated once they get their big girl colors? She will need an egglaying bin in her cage and proper diet and temperatures to ensure that she doesn't become eggbound or lay huge clutches, suffer from follicular stasis or MBD related to that.

 

[Klyde O'Scope]

+1 Temperaments can also change as they grow up/mature.

I agree there are many husbandry issues here that need addressing.

 

[kped]

Please answer the questions in the how to ask for help thread near the top of the health forum. You need to make some changes to your caging.

Moving her from one dage to the other or rearranging the cage she's in both put her in a new "territory" and she has to get used to it again which may make her standoffish.

Post a couple of bigger photos of her please.

Are you aware that female veileds can produce eggs without having mated once they get their big girl colors? She will need an egglaying bin in her cage and proper diet and temperatures to ensure that she doesn't become eggbound or lay huge clutches, suffer from follicular stasis or MBD related to that.

i wasn’t told anything buying her i’ve been doing my research like crazy and only get bits and pieces that’s why i’m here

 

[kped]

 

[PoseidonTheChameleon]

i wasn’t told anything buying her i’ve been doing my research like crazy and only get bits and pieces that’s why i’m here

This is the form she was referring to

Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
• Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
• Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
• Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
• Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
• Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
• History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
• Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
• Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
• Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
• Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
• Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
• Location - Where are you geographically located?

Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.

--------------

Please Note:

1. The more details you provide the better and more accurate help you will receive.
2. Photos can be very helpful.

 

[kped]

• Your Chameleon - veiled cham, female, almost 6 months
• How long has it been in your care? 3 months
• Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon? i try to take her out for 5 minutes everyday but she hasn’t came out in a month
• Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? crickets and calci worms What amount? 5 crickets 2 calci wormsAm 5 crickets pm
• Supplements - nothing because i was told only calci worms and if she didn’t eat those to use the calci powder
• Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? ZooMed dropper How often and how long to you mist? 3x a day since my humidifier is iffy Do you see your chameleon drinking? yes
• Fecal Description - normal when compared to articles on how it should look
• . Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites? i don’t know probably not
• History - i took her out 5 minutes everyday since i got her the only time she hasn’t come out is when i moved her into her new cage after a few months of having her cus i heard the net cages are better

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - screen i don’t know the dimensions off the top of my head
• Lighting - 2 morning bulbs idk the names of brands got them at petco and a night bulb
• Temperature - i have a small temp thing with a microphone thing that sticks into the dirt reads from 70-75
• Humidity - i was using the stick on ones that go in the tank but since i switched cages it doesn’t read accurately so i jus mist 3 times in the day
• Plants - no real plants, 5-6 fake vines and a stand up fake plant
• Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? i have a ceiling fan she’s a good 6ft from my bedroom door but my rooms small so that’s unavoidable At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor? idk enough for other animals not to reach

 

[Haley Hendrix]

Give me a sec and i’ll review it.

 

[Haley Hendrix]

feedback in bold


Your Chameleon - veiled cham, female, almost 6 months

• How long has it been in your care? 3 months
• Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon? i try to take her out for 5 minutes everyday but she hasn’t came out in a month

dont just try to take her out. lure her out with her favorite snack so she associates you with food/good things.

• Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? crickets and calci worms What amount? 5 crickets 2 calci wormsAm 5 crickets pm

Get more of a variety. feed all at once, once in the morning so they have time to digest there food by basking throughout the day.

• Supplements - nothing because i was told only calci worms and if she didn’t eat those to use the calci powder

This is incorrect. They need Calcium with and without D3 and a multivitiam. Calcium without D3 daily except one day a week give multivitiam/ Calcium with D3, alternate week to week.

• Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? ZooMed dropper How often and how long to you mist? 3x a day since my humidifier is iffy Do you see your chameleon drinking? yes
• Fecal Description - normal when compared to articles on how it should look
• . Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites? i don’t know probably not
• History - i took her out 5 minutes everyday since i got her the only time she hasn’t come out is when i moved her into her new cage after a few months of having her cus i heard the net cages are better

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - screen i don’t know the dimensions off the top of my head

min should be 2x2x4

• Lighting - 2 morning bulbs idk the names of brands got them at petco and a night bulb

This is very important, you need a T5HO 5.0 UVB that goes from one end of the top of the cage to the other. Basking bulb should be fine with a 60 watt. No night bulb.

• Temperature - i have a small temp thing with a microphone thing that sticks into the dirt reads from 70-75

What is your basking temp?

• Humidity - i was using the stick on ones that go in the tank but since i switched cages it doesn’t read accurately so i jus mist 3 times in the day

You need a digital one. Make sure that when you’re missing it dries out between each one.

• Plants - no real plants, 5-6 fake vines and a stand up fake plant

All plants should be real. This species likes to eat there plants and can become impacted if they eat the fake plants.

• Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? i have a ceiling fan she’s a good 6ft from my bedroom door but my rooms small so that’s unavoidable At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor? idk enough for other animals not to reach

 

[Klyde O'Scope]

+1 Temperaments can also change as they grow up/mature.

I agree there are many husbandry issues here that need addressing.

Maybe we can make this a little easier.

Veiled Chameleon Care – Chameleon Academy​

I would follow this up—or in conjunction with—the Husbandry Program at the top of the page.
Then if you have any questions, you can come back here to ask.

I would also download & print out a copy of the Veiled Chameleon Care Summary sheet on that page for quick reference, and keep it near your enclosure.

there isn’t a ton of vines only because they’re EXPENSIVE i’d say 5-6 fake plants hanging but i doubt that’s what it is because she had even less in the bigger tank just a background to make it feel more full if that makes sense (i have no pictures of the big tank with the backdrop unfortunately)

Yes, fake vines are expensive, and unfortunately, the kind you have could also pose a potential impaction risk. Please get some live plants & vines, and chuck the fake ones.

The plants & vines on these lists are chameleon-safe:
https://chameleonacademy.com/plants/
https://www.madcham.de/en/pflanzen-fuers-terrarium/
https://www.chameleons.info/l/safe-and-unsafe-plants/
https://www.chameleonschool.com/safe-plants-for-chameleons/

For real vines, I can wholeheartedly recommend (from the above lists):

• Golden Pothos
• Philodendron
• Wandering Jew
• Madagascar Jasmine

There are more to choose from on the lists. I know these to be relatively easy to care for and relatively fast-growing. You don't need all of them; however many you like will be fine, and you can thread them around the enclosure as they grow.

 

[Andrew1283]

First off your girl is beautiful! I also have a female veiled and she went on a hunger strike for a few days when I moved her into a larger enclosure. She got those same black spots and stripes which I call her, “Miss Nasty” personality. It’s a phase which should pass once she acclimated and feels safe. I agree, toss the fake stuff and get a couple real plants at least. My 2’ X 2’ x 4, Reptibreeze enclosure was only $75.00 on Amazon, which included shipping. A bigger enclosure with real plants will make your cham so much more comfortable and calm. And when they’re comfortable you really get to see the most of their personality. Don’t handle them unnecessarily, let them do their thing, but hand feeding is a great way to earn trust.

 

[Haley Hendrix]

You can look into dragon strand ledges, they’re very helpful to hang plants/stick and vines. If you need an idea of what an enclosure should look like I will attach mine.

 

[kinyonga]

You said..."Your Chameleon - veiled cham, female, almost 6 months"...she's a cutey and looks healthy!

You said...you feed her "crickets and calci worms"..."5 crickets 2 calci wormsAm 5 crickets pm"...at that age you can feed her as much as she will eat in a couple of minutes at each feeding.
Once she is approaching full grown, you need to cut her back first to once every second day, then cut the number of feeders per day until you get her to being fed every two or three days and only 4 or 5 crickets (or equal calories from other insects) per feeding. If you overfeed her once she is mature she will produce large clutches of eggs, may develop follicular stasis, eggbinding, MBD, etc and die young.

You said...Supplements - "nothing because i was told only calci worms and if she didn’t eat those to use the calci powder"...
It's important to dust all the insects lightly before feeding them to her, with a phos free calcium powder at all feedings but one a week. One that one feeding, alternate between a phos free calcium/D3 powder and a vitamin powder with a prEformed source of vitamin A lightly. It's important to feed/gutload the insects with a wide assortment of greens such as kale, dandelion greens, collards, etc and veggies such as sweet potato, sweet red pepper, zucchini, squash and a very very small amount of fruit such as berries, apples, pears, etc.

You said the Fecal Description - "normal when compared to articles on how it should look"...so urates are white or almost white?

History - you said... "i took her out 5 minutes everyday since i got her the only time she hasn’t come out is when i moved her into her new cage after a few months of having her cus i heard the net cages are better"..cage type that's better depends on where you live. Where do you live?


You said...Lighting - "2 morning bulbs idk the names of brands got them at petco and a night bulb"...we need to know if the bulbs are right so your chameleon will be healthy.

You said re..Temperature - "i have a small temp thing with a microphone thing that sticks into the dirt reads from 70-75"...what is the basking temperature? It should be 80F.

Humidity - you said..."i was using the stick on ones that go in the tank but since i switched cages it doesn’t read accurately so i jus mist 3 times in the day"...it's important to know what it is.

Re Plants - you said..."no real plants, 5-6 fake vines and a stand up fake plant"...fake plants are not recommended for veiled chameleons in particular...they munch on them frequently and could become impacted if they ingest fake leaves. Use real well washed, both sides of the leaves, plants that are nontoxic.

 

[kped]

idk enough for other animals not to re

You can look into dragon strand ledges, they’re very helpful to hang plants/stick and vines. If you need an idea of what an enclosure should look like I will attach mine.

please attach an example that would be so helpful!

 

[kped]

You said..."Your Chameleon - veiled cham, female, almost 6 months"...she's a cutey and looks healthy!

You said...you feed her "crickets and calci worms"..."5 crickets 2 calci wormsAm 5 crickets pm"...at that age you can feed her as much as she will eat in a couple of minutes at each feeding.
Once she is approaching full grown, you need to cut her back first to once every second day, then cut the number of feeders per day until you get her to being fed every two or three days and only 4 or 5 crickets (or equal calories from other insects) per feeding. If you overfeed her once she is mature she will produce large clutches of eggs, may develop follicular stasis, eggbinding, MBD, etc and die young.

You said...Supplements - "nothing because i was told only calci worms and if she didn’t eat those to use the calci powder"...
It's important to dust all the insects lightly before feeding them to her, with a phos free calcium powder at all feedings but one a week. One that one feeding, alternate between a phos free calcium/D3 powder and a vitamin powder with a prEformed source of vitamin A lightly. It's important to feed/gutload the insects with a wide assortment of greens such as kale, dandelion greens, collards, etc and veggies such as sweet potato, sweet red pepper, zucchini, squash and a very very small amount of fruit such as berries, apples, pears, etc.

You said the Fecal Description - "normal when compared to articles on how it should look"...so urates are white or almost white?

History - you said... "i took her out 5 minutes everyday since i got her the only time she hasn’t come out is when i moved her into her new cage after a few months of having her cus i heard the net cages are better"..cage type that's better depends on where you live. Where do you live?


You said...Lighting - "2 morning bulbs idk the names of brands got them at petco and a night bulb"...we need to know if the bulbs are right so your chameleon will be healthy.

You said re..Temperature - "i have a small temp thing with a microphone thing that sticks into the dirt reads from 70-75"...what is the basking temperature? It should be 80F.

Humidity - you said..."i was using the stick on ones that go in the tank but since i switched cages it doesn’t read accurately so i jus mist 3 times in the day"...it's important to know what it is.

Re Plants - you said..."no real plants, 5-6 fake vines and a stand up fake plant"...fake plants are not recommended for veiled chameleons in particular...they munch on them frequently and could become impacted if they ingest fake leaves. Use real well washed, both sides of the leaves, plants that are nontoxic.

zoo med morning lamp with reptisun 10.0 uvb in dual light fixture

so should i not have 3 different lights?

 

[kped]

First off your girl is beautiful! I also have a female veiled and she went on a hunger strike for a few days when I moved her into a larger enclosure. She got those same black spots and stripes which I call her, “Miss Nasty” personality. It’s a phase which should pass once she acclimated and feels safe. I agree, toss the fake stuff and get a couple real plants at least. My 2’ X 2’ x 4, Reptibreeze enclosure was only $75.00 on Amazon, which included shipping. A bigger enclosure with real plants will make your cham so much more comfortable and calm. And when they’re comfortable you really get to see the most of their personality. Don’t handle them unnecessarily, let them do their thing, but hand feeding is a great way to earn trust.

i just checked the size it’s 18” L x 12”W x 20”H Zilla cage

 

[kped]

You said..."Your Chameleon - veiled cham, female, almost 6 months"...she's a cutey and looks healthy!

You said...you feed her "crickets and calci worms"..."5 crickets 2 calci wormsAm 5 crickets pm"...at that age you can feed her as much as she will eat in a couple of minutes at each feeding.
Once she is approaching full grown, you need to cut her back first to once every second day, then cut the number of feeders per day until you get her to being fed every two or three days and only 4 or 5 crickets (or equal calories from other insects) per feeding. If you overfeed her once she is mature she will produce large clutches of eggs, may develop follicular stasis, eggbinding, MBD, etc and die young.

You said...Supplements - "nothing because i was told only calci worms and if she didn’t eat those to use the calci powder"...
It's important to dust all the insects lightly before feeding them to her, with a phos free calcium powder at all feedings but one a week. One that one feeding, alternate between a phos free calcium/D3 powder and a vitamin powder with a prEformed source of vitamin A lightly. It's important to feed/gutload the insects with a wide assortment of greens such as kale, dandelion greens, collards, etc and veggies such as sweet potato, sweet red pepper, zucchini, squash and a very very small amount of fruit such as berries, apples, pears, etc.

You said the Fecal Description - "normal when compared to articles on how it should look"...so urates are white or almost white?

History - you said... "i took her out 5 minutes everyday since i got her the only time she hasn’t come out is when i moved her into her new cage after a few months of having her cus i heard the net cages are better"..cage type that's better depends on where you live. Where do you live?


You said...Lighting - "2 morning bulbs idk the names of brands got them at petco and a night bulb"...we need to know if the bulbs are right so your chameleon will be healthy.

You said re..Temperature - "i have a small temp thing with a microphone thing that sticks into the dirt reads from 70-75"...what is the basking temperature? It should be 80F.

Humidity - you said..."i was using the stick on ones that go in the tank but since i switched cages it doesn’t read accurately so i jus mist 3 times in the day"...it's important to know what it is.

Re Plants - you said..."no real plants, 5-6 fake vines and a stand up fake plant"...fake plants are not recommended for veiled chameleons in particular...they munch on them frequently and could become impacted if they ingest fake leaves. Use real well washed, both sides of the leaves, plants that are nontoxic.

 

[Coop]

That lighting is not suitable for a chameleon. The coil uvb is not good, and will need to be replaced the a t5ho linear bulb. The heat bulb can be replaced with a normal incandescent bulb, and the night heat light is not needed. The cage is way too small, a full grown veiled will need a 24x24x48.

 

[kped]

got these from petco she’s never ate them atleast in front of me i spent probably $50 onfake plants are they really that bad i’lldefinitely get some real ones but is it going to cost as much as the fake i hate that i spent so much money on unnecessary stuff bc petco literally said i needed this stuff but i do want a happy cham thank you allfor ur help

 

[kped]

That lighting is not suitable for a chameleon. The coil uvb is not good, and will need to be replaced the a t5ho linear bulb. The heat bulb can be replaced with a normal incandescent bulb, and the night heat light is not needed. The cage is way too small, a full grown veiled will need a 24x24x48.

so only two bulbs and they stay on 24:7? and should i put her back into the 40 gal fish tank or keep her in this one till i get a bigger one.. i’m out of work so i have literally no money to get it rn