What species are our feeder hornworms? Anyone use them as moths?

[Franquixote]

I have never had a batch of hornworms grow as fast as this latest- they are now too big to feed.
I don't want to kill them, so I was thinking that I would try and allow them to become moths.
Anyone ever do this? I have a planter in the enclosure, but I think that when they dig down into it they will harm the roots so I will probably set up a bucket with dirt.
Any advice appreciated!
When the moths hatch out are they decent feeders?

 

[Franquixote]

So check out this tutorial if interested-
http://www.muchadoaboutchameleons.com/2014/11/how-to-pupate-hornworms-into-moths.html

I'm going to try it out! Sphinx moths are awesome, should be fun to see how Pixel reacts to these as feeders!

 

[dshuld]

I'm actually working on getting a breeding colony of them now. I've got 4 cocoons so far from previous tubs of worms and have 2 tubs of worms set aside specifically for this project. Of the 4 worms I put in the tub in this pic I took for @Katacara a couple of days ago only 2 were successful transformations. 1 turned to mush on top of the soil, 1 buried itself then turned to mush and then these two. I've got 5 or so that are nearly the right size to pull and try to pupate now too so I need to get a plastic shoe box for the two tubs I'm growing out now since I'm positive my wife (@Krissy83 ) loves me stealing dishes from the kitchen for this project . Though the dirt looks packed in tight it's just from smoothing it back out after pulling the mushy ones out of the tub.

 

[Spyro]

Manduca sexta is the scientific name. They are the species sexta

 

[Franquixote]

Mine seem to have no interest in burrowing yet, but full grown... getting 12+ hours a day of light.

 

[CJ's Exotics]

I'm actually working on getting a breeding colony of them now. I've got 4 cocoons so far from previous tubs of worms and have 2 tubs of worms set aside specifically for this project. Of the 4 worms I put in the tub in this pic I took for @Katacara a couple of days ago only 2 were successful transformations. 1 turned to mush on top of the soil, 1 buried itself then turned to mush and then these two. I've got 5 or so that are nearly the right size to pull and try to pupate now too so I need to get a plastic shoe box for the two tubs I'm growing out now since I'm positive my wife (@Krissy83 ) loves me stealing dishes from the kitchen for this project . Though the dirt looks packed in tight it's just from smoothing it back out after pulling the mushy ones out of the tub.
View attachment 196332

Funny on how much trouble they are. I forgot about mine in the cup, and they pupated in there and turned into beautiful moths very soon @dshuld.

 

[Franquixote]

It figures! So I guess I should just be patient then, did ALL of them hatch?! If not how many made it out of the total you had without any intervention on your part?
I'm surprised they had enough food to pupate without any intervention, did you add extra or they made it on just the food they came with?

 

[CJ's Exotics]

It figures! So I guess I should just be patient then, did ALL of them hatch?! If not how many made it out of the total you had without any intervention on your part?
I'm surprised they had enough food to pupate without any intervention, did you add extra or they made it on just the food they came with?

They just pupated, no intervention, no added food, but I would make sure that they aren't in the cup when pupating. This was an accident, oops!

 

[dshuld]

Lol, same for me. My first two were accidents in the tub. My second two were on purpose. I added 10 worms to the tubs last thursday ish...they buried themselves and got disturbed yesterday when I moved everything to a large sterilite tub. I also ended up adding another 11 in now that I have a large enough tub for them to all do their thing. Still waiting on 13 more to get fat enough to move over. My original 2 should be hatching soon I hope though.

 

[dshuld]

@Franquixote , your other thread says you're still feeding them? Mind taking pics of your worms? When I moved mine to their tubs I put a few stands of green beans in with them. The first 2 purposely done buried with in hours. The batch of 10 buried within 12 hours or so. I haven't been home to see if the batch of 11 have buried yet or not. I saw about 6 or 8 still roaming when I left for work at 630 this morning.

 

[Franquixote]

Check out the other thread for info, and yes I will take pics for you.

https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/will-hornworms-pupate-metamorphosis-in-coir.161454/

From here on out I will update the thread above, if you want any additional info let me know. I gave specifics on feeding in the above thread too.
What do you want pics of?

 

[Franquixote]

Check out the other thread! I am going to add pics ASAP and some interesting info!

 

[Franquixote]

STILL WAITING on any to hatch. Snails are in with them now. The room they are in is chilly and they only get het underneath and filtered lighting.

I'm wondering if they will even hatch at this point. And what to do if they DO hatch. I thought putting a hummingbird feeder in with the moths would take care of the adults, but not sure what to provide for the moths to lay their eggs on and if I can just use hornworm chow or what t feed them.

 

[dshuld]

I've read others used an umbrella plant in the cage with a tomato plant outside but near the cage. That is what I plan on doing as well when I quit procrastinating finishing their setup . I did have one hatch unexpectedly on me a couple weeks ago though. Have you touched an of your pupa at all?

 

[Franquixote]

I have not touched ANY pupa at all, the only things done are put snails in there with them and springtails to help clean up. Mist to keep humidity in. I like the idea of money plant plus tomato outside. I wonder if just putting a ripe tomato in there would help. or maybe some of those cherry tomatoes, 2-3 every few days removed as they rot.

 

[Longhorn1234]

If you already have a tomato plant then why not just let them lay eggs on that plant? You're gonna collect the eggs anyway, or will you let the eggs hatch in the plant where they were laid?

 

[dshuld]

For me, I plan on leaving the worms, moths, a tub of dirt and a tub for food in the cage together with the umbrella plant. I don't have any ambitions of trying to sell them, atm anyway. If the need arises to modify what I'm doing on housing the worms at some point I will but between my chams and @Matt Vanilla Gorilla chams I don't see me getting over run anytime soon lol. If I do I'll ask my reptile shop about trading them for store credit as they seem to have a shortage of them at times.

@Franquixote the reason I asked if you've touched them is I noticed something on the one that did hatch already. I've got a few more that have hit this stage too so I'm waiting to confirm my thoughts before really using it as a guide for my future pupa. But, touch them and see if they wiggle or not.

 

[Franquixote]

I'm afraid to dig them up- they are buried in coir. There is some white fuzzy mold is spots so they may be dead underneath and rotting.
I was told if you dig them up they probably will die.

 

[dshuld]

Ok, well I'll tell you I've dug mine up, twice as a matter of fact, and they haven't died yet lol. First time was when I moved them from multiple small tubs to the big one and the second time when I was checking to see how many of the 21 worms were successful changes. Pretty sure mine are all getting close though as they've partially unburied themselves exposing the "wiggly" end. The first one that hatched did the same thing then stopped wiggling shortly after and not much after that it hatched.

 

[Curlytails]

Hi guys. Im new to chameleons and i want to feed a varied diet but i do not have access to hornworms. Are there any similar alternatives?