What MBD looks like...

[Elizadolots]

It may just seem that way because that's really the dominant chameleon on this board. I wouldn't let the fact most of the MBD discussed here is in Veileds scare you away from them. I believe all chameleons can have MBD and it is a concern for owners of any breed.

 

[delitrav]

Hello i brought my second boy from s friend who was nursing him back from severe MBD, when he got him his tongue was hanging out, he was laying on the floor of his viv and was in a right state, he had never been given any UV bulbs are nutrobal, when i got him he was on the mend, he couldnt climb very high, was still being hand fed and his crest was sagged over, he was very slow and didnt really want to do alot, ive had him almost 3 months now, he feeds by himself, he now shows his dislike by trying to bite me every now and then, he climbs alot better and is doing really well, he has breaks in his hip joints but he manages to get around but i dont think he'll ever go in a big viv like my others. Sad really, hes a really hansome boy.

Its great you took on a rescue and i hope he lives a long and happy life.

 

[joshua n janet]

my male was getting mbd but thanks to laurie she saved his life by sending me calcium and things that i needed

 

[dreamforthedead]

Awww poor little guy first time i've seen a pic of a cham with MBD. Thanks for sharing.

 

[Eszzie]

I've been to a special presentation from a vet here in Belgium. He showed the most common diseases with chameleon brought to his practice. It's shocking in what kind of chameleons are brought in with even worse MBD than shown here and the owners don't even know that it's not normal. Excuse me, but if you like animals, you surely know what a healthy one looks like, if it starts looking like a freaking alien you're just an animal abuser!

 

[sofia]

male calipratus with 2 broken legs

hello, i have a male cham 3 months old and 1 month ago i found out that one of his front legs is broken. he couldn't move, eat or do anything. i took him to the vent and he said that he propably fell down broke his leg and now he greated an exo-bone, to connect the 2 broken pieces of bones of his leg. he didn't give me nothing but a a medicine for the pain to drope in to his water tank. he was very good, start eating again, hunding etc but few days ago, i saw that his other leg is in the same condition.
to. he doesn't seem to be in pain, he is adsolutelly in perfect condition, he is very active, eats a lot, etc. he is a calipratus one and he lives in a lange vivarium with a small plant inside and lot of sunshine. can you please tell me whats wrong with him? i love him very much and im very concern about him
sofia

 

[Jono]

Hi Sofia

Start a new thread and fill this out and we'll do our best to help you. You will need to go back to the vet as soon as possible but for now you need to make sure he can't fall again so take out anything he can climb. I would also consider trying another vet if yours is not experienced with chameleons. Photos of your chameleon and his setup will help a lot.

Chameleon Info:

* Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
* Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
* Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
* Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
* Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
* Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
* History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.


Cage Info:

* Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
* Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
* Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
* Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
* Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
* Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
* Location - Where are you geographically located?


Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.

 

[ttsmackell]

Recovering from MBD possible!

Our little female has a severe case of MBD as well, but since she's so young (2-4 months), the vet called it something different... Nutritional Secondary Hyperparathyroidism. Basically, MBD is just like osteoporosis or osteoarthritis, but NSHP is more from a lack of nutrition from the get-go.

Unfortunately, we fell in love with our little Emily at a chain petstore (I know - a big no-no!) but we knew that she needed to be rescued. She had what some call rubber limbs that didn't seem to cooperate with her, her grip was very light, her tail just whipped around instead of gripping or curling, and we've never seen her lash her tongue out to catch food.

Three weeks after the initial vet visit, twice a day carnivore care hand feeding, daily calcium gluconate, and, of all things, Pedialyte, and she's got a grip that could crush walnuts! She's also gotten some control over 3 of her limbs, she climbs large, low-lying branches, and she eats grubs that we still hand-feed her. Oh, and she finally pooped (ALOT) for the first time in 3 weeks...

Unfortunately, the vet says that we may just have to hand feed her for the rest of her life (which has been cut short due to her condition). She does rip the superworms, mealworms (gut-loaded and dusted) and crickets right off the tweezers, but won't go for them in her cage.

 

[JCDenton]

So how common is this if you use the proper lighting and supplements? Will the cham self regulate and make sure he gets enough light on his own, or do you need to worry about having too many shady hiding spots in the bottom of the cage?

 

[spadefish]

Genetic Predisposition?

Julirs' original post leas me to a couple of questions and I am not sure thatanyone has an answer. If Henry has MBD despite proper lighting and supplementation, does he have a genetic defect? All things being equal, I would have to assume that if his parents were healthy and raised properly too that he would have to have some kind of germline issue based ontwo recessive genes. It has to be something more than "well, this happens sometimes." Although, that may be all we can ever say about it, I suppose.

Or, if it isn't a specific germline defect related to calcium absorption per se, maybe it's a result of being just a sickly creature (lots; of things going on makin it hard to do anything well).

What does everyone think? Dr. House?

 

[sengiro40k]

Since you have experience with MBD, do you think gutloading your prey with a calcium rich cricket diet, vitamin rich cricket quencher, carrots, and collard greens will keep you cham from getting mbd outside of an internal disorder?

 

[Julirs]

I beleive that some animals are more prone than others. Both of my cases came from healthy parents and had healthy siblings leading me to beleive this. the Veiled was picked on by siblings and possibly kept from proper lighting, but was supplemented like all 68 of his siblings. The Panther was simply not supplemented or not supplemented enough in his early years, but was kept under the proper lighting and both were fed properly gutloaded food.
I do think that if you do not supplement and gut load AND have proper UVB lighting you are asking for trouble, MBD being one thing that can happen.

By the way, both Remy and Hershey are doing great. Remy has shed and as he approaches 2 is a stunning little Panther. Will get pics up soon.

 

[sandrachameleon]

In keeping with the OPs intention to help people understand what MBD looks like....
This small chameleon's (not my animal) malformations were due to inadequate gutloading, too much vitamin A, too much D3. Although it got somewhat better (once husbandry was improved) mouth never did fully close, the head will never look right, the legs will never be straight.
I share these in the hopes it will help others understand that balanced nutrition is critical. One cant just approach supplementation and gutloading in a haphazard, uneducated, one-size-fits-all or lazy manner.

 

[Julirs]

Great post Sandra! People need to understand that too much can also throw off the balance and cause problems.

 

[KingJulien]

This is important to see, that it's not just too little calcium that causes this disease.

I have a question: do bulging eyes (with the watery ballloon like appearance) typically mean MBD, if there is no other obvious indication? I saw a panther at the pet store in bad shape.

 

[AsiaKauffman]

I raised a male veiled chameleon (lived 5 years), and he lived on peas. He hated other bugs and I never dusted them ect. Just used real sunlight, uv light and heat lamp and he was the healthiest chameleon I owned at the time. I have taken in chameleons with MBD, and its heart breaking to watch them not be able to function correctly, but awesome there are people like you and me out there to take in and make their lives happier and healthier with love and attention to their needs! CUDOS!

 

[AsiaKauffman]

Just got introduced to Phoenix worms and can't wait to get my boys to eat them! They have 61% more calcium than crickets and you don't need to dust them!

 

[carol5208]

Remy's story is so sad, but thank god for people like you with a big heart. I wish everyone could be educated on MBD so no chameleon every has to go through that. You gave him a great life and he was lucky to have found you. So sorry to hear that he has passed on.

 

[Julirs]

Thank you Carol.

I feel that Remy had a purpose in educating people about proper supplementation and preventing MBD. He will be missed.

 

[txskunk]

I'm so sorry...