What does r/chameleons have against the chameleon forums?

[BenjiTheCham]

So today I made a comment on somebody’s post on r/chameleons and it got removed because “The chameleon forums are poison” and because I said that glass terrariums arn’t bad. This just made me really angry and I was wondering why this guy is against chameleon forums. I will add a picture of the message.

 

[Redman]

Hmmm, sounds like someone was here and got their feelings hurt.

 

[BenjiTheCham]

Hmmm, sounds like someone was here and got their feelings hurt.

Yeah, he messaged me and that’s what it seems like.

 

[Mrjamwin]

Just smile and move on. These forums aren't poison, there is a wealth of valuable information here from people with various years of experience and wisdom. This was the first place I went when I got my first Chameleon on a whim and it saved me and especially my Chameleon. If you go someplace and the people there are a bunch of putzs then it's not a place you want to be anyway. That's my opinion. Here people have been very supportive and understanding. Anyway.

 

[cyberlocc]

The second he said glass Vivariums are bad, it was clear he is uniformed so anything he said after can be thrown out the window.

I'd love that video link though, can you post that video here?

As to Foggers being a Dream Tool, well I would debate that. Have a few threads on it . However I would leave that up to each person to decide.


Also don't think Brad or Dec, have ever removed a post because they used the word "r/chameleons" the fact they want to censor, due to saying CF, and then call CF Posion, is actually a poisonous atmosphere for the subreddit, where obviously science is thrown out the window.

Thanks for playing "r/chameleon" moderator, who likely came here spreading fallacys and got called out and went to cry in their safe space of censorship.

Also the dude titles himself the Cham Whisper, so ya, Credibility gone.

 

[Carlton]

I consider people who view everything in black/white, yes/no, either/or as insecure and probably fairly ignorant. A recently "converted" zealot who is defending their new-found wisdom with a bit of desperation because they are still trying to convince themselves about whatever it is. A person who considers a situation from various POVs and makes a reasonable comment is someone who is secure enough in their own knowledge to welcome discussion. Discussion and debate are not threatening. They serve a good purpose assuming they are carried out with civility.

 

[Fenway]

I had a similar problem on Reddit. They basically told me not to reference this site because it takes away from theirs, which kinda makes sense. But then they also said that everyone here were purists and weren't open to new ideas and that this site was more considered about making money than proper chameleon care. I don't really see any value over there so I stopped paying attention to them. They also encourage training chameleons to drink from dishes and when I mentioned that doing so wasn't great they laughed at me, said I must not have been around long, and said that training chameleons to drink from glasses is totally fine and to think that they can't or shouldn't is an old idea.

 

[Carlton]

I had a similar problem on Reddit. They basically told me not to reference this site because it takes away from theirs, which kinda makes sense. But then they also said that everyone here were purists and weren't open to new ideas and that this site was more considered about making money than proper chameleon care. I don't really see any value over there so I stopped paying attention to them. They also encourage training chameleons to drink from dishes and when I mentioned that doing so wasn't great they laughed at me, said I must not have been around long, and said that training chameleons to drink from glasses is totally fine and to think that they can't or shouldn't is an old idea.

Weeeel, technically you could teach a cham to drink out of a glass but obviously there are problems associated with doing that. One, a big one, is that many chams won't do so reliably. We've all seen newbies who plunk the ubiquitous ceramic terrarium dish on the substrate and expect an arboreal lizard to leave its safe leafy realm and go down to drink. They usually don't. Then there's the problem of drinking filthy water sitting at the bottom of a cage. With fermenting cricket carcasses or poop floating in it.

To look at this another way, consider someone who trains their cham to lick clean fresh water out of a hand-held dish or a syringe. It can help the keeper monitor how much water they get during a day, help the cham learn to see their keeper as a trusted source of good things, and it is a nice way to spend time with them. Eventually I chose to teach my chams to drink water from some sort of hand-held source; syringes mostly, but one would lick water out of a silk leaf in my palm or off my skin itself. Got such a kick out of it every time.

Not all black and white is it? Many rules of thumb have exceptions. The point is, to consider what they might be.

 

[Fenway]

Weeeel, technically you could teach a cham to drink out of a glass but obviously there are problems associated with doing that. One, a big one, is that many chams won't do so reliably. Then there's the problem of drinking filthy water sitting at the bottom of a cage. With fermenting cricket carcasses or poop floating in it. To look at this another way, consider someone who trains their cham to lick clean fresh water out of a hand-held dish or a syringe. It can help the keeper monitor how much water they get during a day, help the cham learn to see their keeper as a trusted source of good things, and it is a nice way to spend time with them. Not all black and white is it? Many rules of thumb have exceptions. The point is, to consider what they might be.

Their point was that every chameleon could and should be trained to drink out of a glass and that watering in other ways was unnecessary because of this. They had a picture of a veiled chameleon just sitting on a table lapping out of a glass. It didn't look great. I'm sure some chameleons would drink out of a glass, but I wouldn't go around saying that you should train every chameleon to drink out of glasses. Part of what I didn't like was that they were so dismissive if you didn't agree with them.

 

[Kaizen]

Every medium will have a members who, in virtue of a perceived past wrong, or else out of a sense of loyalty, will bash other online venues. I posted a link to a blog entry I wrote on Herbivory in chameleons, and it was immediately removed by the fb admins. The reason? They don’t want people going to the forums. You’ll hear some of the same stuff here about other groups. Unfortunately, online communication is subject to this weird phenomenon where social filters falter, and peoples’ ability to employ even a modicum of tact and diplomacy magically evaporates. It happens in every group/forum/online medium, and the victims end up going to another group/forum, and saying how bad the former one is.

 

[cyberlocc]

HAHAHA I stirred the Pot, and loved every word of doing it!

@Kaizen We may at times, say the other groups have crazzy ideas, and such. However I dont think I have ever seen any post saying go to them or linking them, be deleted. So completely different ideas here.

1 is users speaking about their experiences with a group, or their objections to their ideas.

The other is speaking of Moderators, pushing agendas, half truths, psuedo science, and Censoring ideas they do not like. The latter does not happen here, sadly it does in most of the other Chameleon Outlets.

 

[Carlton]

HAHAHA I stirred the Pot, and loved every word of doing it!

There's always going to be a problem choosing to "stir the pot". Doing so in a constructive manner. To promote discussion, not put people's backs up or force people to pick sides. Once the backs go up the ears shut down. Polarizing people isn't very productive. How you conduct yourself in the discussion matters. The result being that chams continue to suffer all because of ego and defiant opinion.

 

[Ramrod]

I don't see any reason to even go anywhere else. Got all the info and help I need right here. IMO

 

[nightanole]

CF
facebook
/r/chameleons


FIGHT!

Most the loud mouths causing a ruckus havent even had 1 chameleon die of old age yet.



Though it is interesting we are seeing less and less "Rango's" and more and more "Pascal's".

All the first gen Rango's should have kicked the bucket by now. So they should be helping out with the new Pascal's.


Also we need a new chameleon movie...

 

[cyberlocc]

There's always going to be a problem choosing to "stir the pot". Doing so in a constructive manner. To promote discussion, not put people's backs up or force people to pick sides. Once the backs go up the ears shut down. Polarizing people isn't very productive. How you conduct yourself in the discussion matters. The result being that chams continue to suffer all because of ego and defiant opinion.

I mean, stirring the pot, by mentioning CF, in their posts, is Promoting discussion maybe to the members, however if the Moderators are object to CF as they have stated, that will continue and it will just be deleted. Which was the point, by stirring the pot. Eventually if CF is linked enough, they will give up on deletion or they will not.

I did not tell anyone to pick sides, just brought attention to the site on the posts.

"The result being that chams continue to suffer all because of ego and defiant opinion."

We are going to diverge there, I dont think that R/Chams, Chameleons are suffering. Flips idea of shot glasses makes sense, and I am sure that it could work, and likely does well in certain areas, with good indoor humidity. We place too much focus on Chameleons dont drink standing water, they actually do. They drink standing water from leaves, some of my plants have semi bowl shaped leaves, they hold a nice puddle, and chameleons drink from said puddle.

Shot Glass / Dew from a Leaf, as long as the water is replaced frequently, then the overall method is fairly similar in reality. Whether they lick water off a leaf, or out of a shot glass, does it really matter?

I also dont think their Chameleons are "Suffering" because they do not like Bioactive, they think soil will 100% cause an issue, or that Glass Cages will cause an RI. None of those things, will cause what they think, however by keeping in Screen, with Covered soil, and not Bioactive, wont cause suffering either.

The only folks being hurt, by the train of thought there on the subreddit is the users. The users who feel forced into a way they are told, and have their ideas, or deviation shot down. The animals will be fine, as for all intents and purposes their ideas on care closely mimic those on here, and seem fine.

 

[JuniorC]

HAHAHA I stirred the Pot, and loved every word of doing it!
View attachment 260862

View attachment 260863


@Kaizen We may at times, say the other groups have crazzy ideas, and such. However I dont think I have ever seen any post saying go to them or linking them, be deleted. So completely different ideas here.

1 is users speaking about their experiences with a group, or their objections to their ideas.

The other is speaking of Moderators, pushing agendas, half truths, psuedo science, and Censoring ideas they do not like. The latter does not happen here, sadly it does in most of the other Chameleon Outlets.

Oooo you took it there ??

 

[jamest0o0]

CF
facebook
/r/chameleons


FIGHT!

Most the loud mouths causing a ruckus havent even had 1 chameleon die of old age yet.



Though it is interesting we are seeing less and less "Rango's" and more and more "Pascal's".

All the first gen Rango's should have kicked the bucket by now. So they should be helping out with the new Pascal's.


Also we need a new chameleon movie...

Lmao

 

[Coop]

I have been banned from that subreddit. Twice.

 

[jadelync]

This post is interesting, having been on the sub first and then coming here also. I think both places have some good information. I do not understand why there can't be more than one good place to go to get information on chameleons.

I just want to figure out the best life i can give my cham so he's happy and healthy. Whoever can help do that is good in my book. But don't put down other places....damn.

 

[jamest0o0]

This is about to be like the great facebook vs chamforum fight of 2019