Very tame chameleon
- Thread starter Cameo the Chameleon
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CharlieCharmingo
Avid Member
@CharlieCharmingo I'm sorry but I think we're just comparing 2 different ideas of what a social bond is. You are not a part of your chameleons social life, they do not have them. Millions of years of evolution has made sure of that. That said, I agree with you that you can be seen as a security blanket, but they do not like or love you. You're speaking out of speculation, but this a fact, these animals are not tegus and monitors and a lot of animals can avoid stress if we'd make that more clear. I'm not saying you're stressing your cham, you sound like a good keeper, but it's a misunderstanding of how these animals operate. They like when we provide them with something beneficial, but they don't care about us. BtW I enjoy the friendly arguments/discussions lol so don't take this the wrong way please! I speak my mind, but dont mean to offend. I just think it's a mistake to imply to newcomers that these creatures will be our friends and enjoy our company.
As far as houses go, chameleons don't have emotions, like us with a house. It was a weak analogy of mine.
No I'm not taking offense at all. As I said this is something that is always up for debate. However I do agree with one thing for sure, I would not give the advice to a new keeper to like snuggle with them on the couch for several hours while consuming a great deal of Netflix. Or anything like that. I would say get to know your chameleon really well first before handling experimentations. There definitely has to be some specific lines drawn and precautions taken especially when first getting to know these guys. I guess what I'm saying is if you have a chameleon who takes the mere knowledge that they know you will not eat them or purposely harm and they trust you enough to let you go in and out of their cages with no problem just like they would a worm or butterfly or something, and you want to call that a bond then that's okay.
Plus, and like you I'm not trying to offend or anything, I think there is something different with raising a chameleon up from birth and acquiring one that's already born. For example in the wild a female chameleon would lay their eggs and keep on about her day probably thinking "well was uncomfortable." Eventually the eggs would hatch and the first thing these chameleons would do is think "gotta get out of her before something eats me I'm way too small for this planet" right? But I believe that that train of thought can altered because when they first hatch they are usually (I've never bred so correct me if I'm wrong) in a confined space so flight is out, and their siblings hatch along with them and they wait until you(a person) notice their birth and though they would want to flee from you a technical predator you came and bring them food and water. And now that their whole birthing situation has been completely altered I think their thought patterns have he capability to be altered as well. Because instead of hatching and running all they know are you and their hatch mates if that makes sense? Not saying this is a possibility for all chameleons or reptiles, like humans and every other animal they each have their own unique personality and things they will and won't stand etc. And maybe it's not social like a cat that likes to sleep with you or a dog that'll play with you, but you can socialize a chameleon for a chameleon. In the wild if you approached one they'd probably hide or gap your own might say "oh look humans hand is connected to my tree I'm going to take that way" if that makes sense? It's kind of like fish. If you stuck your hand in a lake of fish they'd flee from you, but if you've hand feed your fish in your tank since you got them they may come up and eat it from your hand. Lol.
Idk. This is long and I feel like I'm rambling. Also disclosure I'm no scientist or anything this is just my opinion. I definitely do not advocate new owners or any owners to in force their will on their pet. Everything should be on their terms.
Kristen Wilkins
Chameleon Enthusiast
@CharlieCharmingo i completely agree with this !!. Having Septiceye from @Matt Vanilla Gorilla and how amazing Septiceye is he has no fear of humans . Septiceye the same will come to use as Tony will you . Same as our beardies . Jake is just plan lazy lol . Frances is more picky and she's the only one whom did not come from a breeder. She best with me definitely trust me but she just wants to do what and how she wants she does not think she needs anyone's help lol . She's a sassy little girl !!.
Kristen Wilkins
Chameleon Enthusiast
Kristen Wilkins
Chameleon Enthusiast
Hey I'm not an expert . All I can say is their personalities are different Septiceye and Frances . No one will ever convince me their the same . Septiceye is not scare of people he has never been .
perryny
Member
Several years I got a beautiful, 3 mo. old female veiled. Basil.
Prior to and after bringing her home, I read lots here and elsewhere and heeded the advice to keep the handling to a minimum. At the beginning I basically left her alone for the first week or so, letting her get accustomed to her new surroundings. Then slowly and occasionally I would take her out of her cage for a short while. She never seemed to like it much (shying/running from my hand, puffing up, sometimes opening her mouth...). The less I handled her, the less she seemed to want to be handled. Eventually, I basically loved her from afar, with almost no contact other than when necessary.
She did have (against a lot of advice against doing so) a companion. My little tree frog, Lenard...
https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/chameleon-and-frogs.111807/
Sadly, little Basil passed last year. Not too long after (Lenard was looking lonely), I got another 3 mo. old. This time, a panther - Finn (short for Finn Diesel).
From literally day 1, I made it a point to hold him a bit, feed him a snack by hand once a day and spend some time with him.
He absolutely associates me with food, but that's great (once he whapped my eyeball with his tongue when I wasn't looking). He comes right to me when I open the cage, he climbs straight up my arm and often up to the top of my head. He "snuggles" with me and my wife in bed when we're watching TV, either exploring the comforter, the headboard, or just chilling on my arm. When guests are over, even the most timid will put their hand out and he makes them feel instantly at ease (everyone loves his little cham claws).
Who knows... maybe I could have handled my first veiled from day one, and she could have hissed and bit at me every time anyway. But from now on, I'll give every new companion in my home every opportunity to see if they like being handled.
PS. Finn and Lenard are getting along famously...
Prior to and after bringing her home, I read lots here and elsewhere and heeded the advice to keep the handling to a minimum. At the beginning I basically left her alone for the first week or so, letting her get accustomed to her new surroundings. Then slowly and occasionally I would take her out of her cage for a short while. She never seemed to like it much (shying/running from my hand, puffing up, sometimes opening her mouth...). The less I handled her, the less she seemed to want to be handled. Eventually, I basically loved her from afar, with almost no contact other than when necessary.
She did have (against a lot of advice against doing so) a companion. My little tree frog, Lenard...
https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/chameleon-and-frogs.111807/
Sadly, little Basil passed last year. Not too long after (Lenard was looking lonely), I got another 3 mo. old. This time, a panther - Finn (short for Finn Diesel).
From literally day 1, I made it a point to hold him a bit, feed him a snack by hand once a day and spend some time with him.
He absolutely associates me with food, but that's great (once he whapped my eyeball with his tongue when I wasn't looking). He comes right to me when I open the cage, he climbs straight up my arm and often up to the top of my head. He "snuggles" with me and my wife in bed when we're watching TV, either exploring the comforter, the headboard, or just chilling on my arm. When guests are over, even the most timid will put their hand out and he makes them feel instantly at ease (everyone loves his little cham claws).
Who knows... maybe I could have handled my first veiled from day one, and she could have hissed and bit at me every time anyway. But from now on, I'll give every new companion in my home every opportunity to see if they like being handled.
PS. Finn and Lenard are getting along famously...
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Kristen Wilkins
Chameleon Enthusiast
That's Septiceye he is a little love he will go too any one he will sit with anyone visit with anyone . We have Frances or veiled little girl , 2 beardies and a leopard gecko. Septiceyes great with them too . Our little girl veiled is sassy she will came too me but it has to be on her terms and no one is allowed at her basking area at any time . She's the boss up their . She does not mind people looking at her at all but really only lets me hold her .Several years I got a beautiful, 3 mo. old female veiled. Basil.
Prior to and after bringing her home, I read lots here and elsewhere and heeded the advice to keep the handling to a minimum. At the beginning I basically left her alone for the first week or so, letting her get accustomed to her new surroundings. Then slowly and occasionally I would take her out of her cage for a short while. She never seemed to like it much (shying/running from my hand, puffing up, sometimes opening her mouth...). The less I handled her, the less she seemed to want to be handled. Eventually, I basically loved her from afar, with almost no contact other than when necessary.
She did have (against a lot of advice against doing so) a companion. My little tree frog, Lenard...
https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/chameleon-and-frogs.111807/
Sadly, little Basil passed last year. Not too long after (Lenard was looking lonely), I got another 3 mo. old. This time, a panther - Finn (short for Finn Diesel).
From literally day 1, I made it a point to hold him a bit, feed him a snack by hand once a day and spend some time with him.
He absolutely associates me with food, but that's great (once he whapped my eyeball with his tongue when I wasn't looking). He comes right to me when I open the cage, he climbs straight up my arm and often up to the top of my head. He "snuggles" with me and my wife in bed when we're watching TV, either exploring the comforter, the headboard, or just chilling on my arm. When guests are over, even the most timid will put their hand out and he makes them feel instantly at ease (everyone loves his little cham claws).
Who knows... maybe I could have handled my first veiled from day one, and she could have hissed and bit at me every time anyway. But from now on, I'll give every new companion in my home every opportunity to see if they like being handled.
PS. Finn and Lenard are getting along famously...
Matt Vanilla Gorilla
Chameleon Enthusiast
People who disagree with you could call your statement arrogant or rude or eveny ignorant! But, from what I have seen of you here on the forums you are a decent, nice person so I know that you did not intend to be insulting!
I am daily suprized by the magnificence and adaptabilities of my chameleons and will never asume that the size of their brain or their "evolutionary" path prevents them from being able to have preferences and that hanging around with me is a impossible preference for them! I have known quite a few people to have changed their minds about this subject in time! @Kristen Wilkins being one of them! I personally have experiential knowledge that make me feel strongly that chameleons can and often do form attachments and cudly bonds with some humans! Quite the experience if you ask me!!!
CharlieCharmingo
Avid Member
I don't think it changes millions of years of evaluation I just think that if you have a chameleon that tolerates being handled and feels fine free roaming with you present than very slightly you have changed their immediate workings because in the wild when would a chameleon ever use you to go from point a to be.
Also you shouldnt call people arrogant for their opinion unless it's super outrageous like bathing your chameleon. But if someone is being a good keeper just like you are but thinks the fact that their chameleon didn't bite them is signs of a bond then leave them be. It's different if they are being a terrible owner AND trying to convince you their chameleon loves sleeping on a pillow with them or something.
It's like the God religious theory. Some people believe in it and thinks it's arrogant that others don't and vise versa. But whether your doctor believes or not at the end of the day doesn't matter as long as he is doing his job correctly and to the best of his ability when it comes to you. It's the same with chams. As long is someone is doing what's best for their Cham, taking advice, learning, researching, etc. and their chameleon is happy and healthy who cares if friend a thinks there's some sort of understanding between them and friend b doesn't? Is the Cham healthy? Are they doing their best for it? Are they willing to take advice and help from more experienced people? If yes to all then okay your okay in my book.
Again I repeat I am saying this as merely conversational banter. Please do not read this as me advocating for forced interactions with your chameleons. I understand that they are an overal a social animal. And I understand that they are not like other animals. I treat my chameleon like my chameleon not as anything else.
jannb
Chameleon Enthusiast
I totally agree. This discussion has been on here many many times and I alway say that I bond with my chameleons. I even ask my vet about it and he said absolutely they can bond with people. He said in the past he wrote an artical about it but it might be time for him to write another one.
CharlieCharmingo
Avid Member
Several years I got a beautiful, 3 mo. old female veiled. Basil.
Prior to and after bringing her home, I read lots here and elsewhere and heeded the advice to keep the handling to a minimum. At the beginning I basically left her alone for the first week or so, letting her get accustomed to her new surroundings. Then slowly and occasionally I would take her out of her cage for a short while. She never seemed to like it much (shying/running from my hand, puffing up, sometimes opening her mouth...). The less I handled her, the less she seemed to want to be handled. Eventually, I basically loved her from afar, with almost no contact other than when necessary.
She did have (against a lot of advice against doing so) a companion. My little tree frog, Lenard...
https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/chameleon-and-frogs.111807/
Sadly, little Basil passed last year. Not too long after (Lenard was looking lonely), I got another 3 mo. old. This time, a panther - Finn (short for Finn Diesel).
From literally day 1, I made it a point to hold him a bit, feed him a snack by hand once a day and spend some time with him.
He absolutely associates me with food, but that's great (once he whapped my eyeball with his tongue when I wasn't looking). He comes right to me when I open the cage, he climbs straight up my arm and often up to the top of my head. He "snuggles" with me and my wife in bed when we're watching TV, either exploring the comforter, the headboard, or just chilling on my arm. When guests are over, even the most timid will put their hand out and he makes them feel instantly at ease (everyone loves his little cham claws).
Who knows... maybe I could have handled my first veiled from day one, and she could have hissed and bit at me every time anyway. But from now on, I'll give every new companion in my home every opportunity to see if they like being handled.
PS. Finn and Lenard are getting along famously...
Woah. You're a brave dude/lady. I would never house two different species together. But I'm glad it's working out perfectly fine for you. Can you talk about what their enclosure is like and your experience with them both in the same cage? It just seems so odd. Also your other Cham died? I'm sorry. Old age or stress or what? Do you think having the frog in there played a part in it? How old is the frog? How long do they live? What was your panthers initial reaction to it? Sorry if I'm asking a lot of questions. I like to learn I think. Lol.
Kristen Wilkins
Chameleon Enthusiast
T
this is so true and yes I was one of them whom thought chameleon did not like handling and should not be handled. I was so very wrong !!. Septiceye prove that thought wrong daily .
Kristen Wilkins
Chameleon Enthusiast
Agreed Septiceye is bonded with every one lol . Really he is . Matt made sure of that . Frances is bonded with me . Their not stressed chameleon they happy babies .
Matt Vanilla Gorilla
Chameleon Enthusiast
Lovely little chameleon! I see the trust! I feel the love! Great job!!!!
Kristen Wilkins
Chameleon Enthusiast
So cute love it
.
CharlieCharmingo
Avid Member
I agree matt I believe brain size and such shouldn't matter. I think Tony is one of the smartest animals I've ever had in my life. He KNOWS whatever he knows lol. And it's amazing watching his eyes rotate and see him thinking about how he's going to handle a situation. But I just think animals overall are smarter than we give them credit for and have more ablitites then we give th credit for. All it takes is getting to understand them and know their limits. I also believe they can have a preference to you over someone else etc.
Kristen Wilkins
Chameleon Enthusiast
This is so true !!. Both Septiceye and Frances are VERY smart . Talk about problem-solving !!. They most certainly are instinctual !!. My beardies are down right snuggling little love bugs . Septiceye as of yet I have not found anything he does not tolerate . Frances she will let one know if one is crossing her line . Their all out side a lot we live in a busy area where people see them a lot . Never stressed, stressed colors , puffed , eyes shut , freezing , no dropping them self too hide . Just go about their business exploring or hunting whatever . Just happy babies .
CharlieCharmingo
Avid Member
I live a couple of blocks from a school and also in a neighborhood where lots of people like to go on walks/jogs so a lot of people and children stop by to see my animals when we're outside. I joke that Tony made our house famous. Everyone asks how they are or inquiring why they aren't out on "such a nice day" lol.
