UVB strength and position help please?

[nimax67]

UVB µW/cm²/strength questions and positioning: hi all, I've lost my little darling female panther chameleon, Freya, aged 10 months. After a few days intensive care at the vet's, the vet recommended putting her to sleep. She had MBD and was egg bound with her first infertile clutch. Now, yeah, usually poor husbandry is the cause. However I've followed all the guidelines, she was, I thought, thriving. She was in a 40x40x76cm reptibreeze viv (I'd actually already purchased the 46x46x92cm to transfer her to but she got ill before I could). Humidifier on for 5x1 hour a day with morning and evening misting. I use the daylight blue reptibreeze 100w light along with the reptisun 5.0 for 12 hours a day. Dusted mixed feeder insects. Big bin of mixed washed play sand and organic soil for egg laying which was in since she was 6 months (when I moved her from the small reptisun viv). The vet reckons my viv set up is good. thinks maybe renal failure compounded with the stress of egg laying. There were no broken bones but x rays showed some bowing of the legs bones. So that shows it must have been going on for a while, so I've gone out and purchased the solarmeter 6. UVB meter. I dont intend to get another female til I know I've got everything perfect in the set up. Trouble is, I don't have the degree is computer science required to interpret what the right readings are supposed to be (as good and all a site http://www.uvguide.co.uk/ is!). The solarmeter 6.2 measures UVB light in µW/cm². The vet reckons that some mesh vivs block a lot of the UVB light into the viv, plus how far away the light etc. My light is hung about 2-3"" above the top of the viv, with her perch 5-6" beneath the roof of the viv. UVB bulb gives off approx 45 µW/cm² at 3" and 5 µW/cm² at 9" unfiltered, and 23 µW/cm² (3") and 2 µW/cm² (9") through the mesh. Am I doing something wrong? I have sent off for arcadia 10 UVB bulbs. Can anyone please advise on use on the solarmeter 6.2 and what µW/cm² levels should be in a viv, (i.e. through the mesh, and at 6" and say, 9" perching levels?) help help help please??

 

[JacksJill]

Check the resources section on Lighting at the bottom there are three links try Lighting for Chameleons II link. Check out the second paragraph. Any chance your bulb was too old and not giving off enough UVB?

 

[nimax67]

Bulb changed 3 months ago when u moved her to bigger viv with laying bin plus the readings given in my post were taken today with my new UVB meter. will check link now thank you

 

[JacksJill]

I guess that was like when you call tech support and they ask you if it's plugged in. Mea culpa.

 

[nimax67]

I guess that was like when you call tech support and they ask you if it's plugged in. Mea culpa.

No, trust me when I say I'm at Homer Simpson's level of "where's the "any" key?" Ok so I've just read lighting for chameleons 1 and 2. Twice. Thank you that was what I was looking for, and sadly or happily it showed me that I was pretty much doing the right thing so it looks like the vet might be right re a pre-existing kidney problem.

TBH the pet shop owner wasn't nice in the long run. He sold Freya to me as definitely a male then got pissy about refunding the £100 difference (in the end I received £75 of the difference. Plus the other big unknown is the dusting supplement he sold me, it was his own recipe of multivitamin and calcium to be dusted every other feed. I've since discovered that "brand" mixed dusting medium is twice the price for half the weight. I will know for future.

But it's not about just replacing her. She knew and trusted me. Eagerly climbing on my hand from the viv for ealkabouts, even laying eggs in my hand the lady couple of days she was in the animal hospital. Even with "expert" handling from the vet she didn't relax to lay eggs, vet was surprised, anyway, thanks again JacksJill. Are you Jack with a girl called Jill or a Jackson Cham?

 

[JacksJill]

There are a lot to learn about cham care. Even the most experienced keepers are looking to learn more. This forum is a great source.

All you can do is pour what you learned from your unfortunate experience into your next pets care. You might want to consider buying from someone on the forum rather than a pet store. Stores serve a purpose but it is impossible for them to be the best keepers of such a large variety of species. Frequently you end up with a pet in bad shape for the get go. Best of luck to you in the future. You sound very responsible. I'm sure you'll do well.

I'm a Jillian who loves Jacksons

 

[nimax67]

There are a lot to learn about cham care. Even the most experienced keepers are looking to learn more. This forum is a great source.

All you can do is pour what you learned from your unfortunate experience into your next pets care. You might want to consider buying from someone on the forum rather than a pet store. Stores serve a purpose but it is impossible for them to be the best keepers of such a large variety of species. Frequently you end up with a pet in bad shape for the get go. Best of luck to you in the future. You sound very responsible. I'm sure you'll do well.

I'm a Jillian who loves Jacksons

Well hello Jillian, Nick here. I bought my male cham from a different pet shop - much more trustworthy. In fact he was one of the first people that told me (from pics) that Freya was female rather than male. I'd love to meet up with a UK breeder for advice and check their set ups.

 

[Andee]

It sounds like the pre-made mix from the store owner may have been not helpful? Sadly... I don't mess around with supplements and stick to the ones that are recommended and are well known/reviewed well. Females can be difficult to deal with general when it comes to calcium, I have started recommending liquid calcium prescribed by a vet to have on hand, on a regular basis for laying times. It is extremely useful to be able to give it to females before and after laying for a week or so.

 

[Davecameos]

Hi
Sorry to hear about your female.
Solarmeter is a great tool and I could not be without one. I use the 6.5 version which gives UV Index so I cannot help with yours, but maybe this link can help you:

http://www.chameleonnews.com/10JulWeldon.html

There could be many reasons not just wrong uv.

She could have had too much vitamin d3 and that can cause kidney problems. In a long term, the body cannot absorb the calcium causing a type of mbd called renal metabolic bone disease.
Other options could be something genetic. Wrong supplements. Wrong setup.
Some females can develop follicular stasis: Eggs do not develop properly and she cannot lay them.
It is hard to tell. An autopsy can sometimes help but not in all cases. In my opinion Some females are not meant to be breeders and medicine is not that great for chameleons.

My advise would be to review your set up. Get rid of the homemade calcium supplement and use something like Sticky Tongue Farm Miner-All indoors. This is a calcium mix with minerals and a safe level of D3. Then you can get plain calcium to use for the days you do not use the miner-all and get a vitamin product. I personally think using supplements that combine the all in one type of thing are not good for chams.

Feeders: gut loading insects is the key to keep animals healthy and also variety. It is always better to give most of the nutrients and vitamins with food rather than supplements.

Sticky tongue farm has got a multi vitamin supplement that is used to feed the insects. It is a powder that mixed with water you can put with the veggies and fruit for the insects.

This is just my own opinion. Every person has got his/her own ways.

Those supplements are available in the UK. I know Muji World panthers sell them. I buy them from them. Hope this helps.

 

[nimax67]

Hi Andre and Davecameos (wayhey someone else see U.K.)

Thanks for above posts. Yes retrospectively I think the shop prepared supplement may have contributed to the new problem, maybe the light too far away, not sure but I'll certainly ensure zero room for error in future. My vet recommends vetark products. Dave are you a breeder?

 

[Davecameos]

Yes but I do not breed panthers.

 

[nimax67]

Yes but I do not breed panthers.

Well hello anyway. I've bred (purely hobbiest level) corn snakes and would like to try with panthers at some stage but won't get another female til I'm sure of my set ups.

 

[Davecameos]

It is a hobby for me too. the best way.
I have montane chameleons.
Good luck with the panthers. I still keep a male panther as a pet.

We are all learning, do not overthink about your female. Just check all the stuff and change the supplements to something more suitable for chams.

Good luck.

 

[JacksJill]

Get rid of the homemade calcium supplement and use something like Sticky Tongue Farm Miner-All indoors. This is a calcium mix with minerals and a safe level of D3. Then you can get plain calcium to use for the days you do not use the miner-all and get a vitamin product.

Good advise. I forgot to mention that earlier. I would consider anything you got from the first pet shop suspect and go with more reputable supplements.

 

[nimax67]

Good advise. I forgot to mention that earlier. I would consider anything you got from the first pet shop suspect and go with more reputable supplements.

Well I guess it's a sad fact that some people put money before welfare of animals. Sadly learnt this too late for my little Freya. Stupid when you consider how much the cost of the viv set up was. It's not like I was trying to save money, I was going on his recommendation. It was never about buying cheaper stuff.

 

[Davecameos]

Well I guess it's a sad fact that some people put money before welfare of animals. Sadly learnt this too late for my little Freya. Stupid when you consider how much the cost of the viv set up was. It's not like I was trying to save money, I was going on his recommendation. It was never about buying cheaper stuff.

Some shops are only money makers, I am afraid. I would recommend to get chams from breeders. There are quite a few panther breeders in England.
Chin up.