Veiled Chameleon restless behavior/screenclimbing towards UVB strip

[IrohtheVeiled]

Hello, this is my first post on the forums.

I have had my veiled chameleon, Iroh, for just over two months. For approximately the past month, he has noticeably been exhibiting restless behavior when me or my partner are in the same room. This behavior includes screen climbing wanting to come out of his enclosure. When we do take him out of his cage, he does not puff up or indicate that he is agitated besides occasionally exhibiting his flared up colors. We have also noticed in the morning he will attempt to on occasion climb up closer to his UVB light than his highest perch which is approx. 6-8 inches from the top of the cage. We also recently noticed him climbing on the top of his cage, which is particularly concerning since he could definitely burn his feet under the heat lamp.

He was more timid about coming out of his enclosure for a period of time after we had gotten him, but after a period of time had been successfully bribed with food to get out of his cage. An unanticipated consequence of this has been he now wants to come up whenever we are in the same room as him, which is problematic as he resides in our living room in our 2 bedroom apartment. I want to be sure that any issues with husbandry that can account for this behavior change are addressed as we are continuing to learn how to take care of him. I did not realize the amount of work that went into caring for chameleons when I had purchased him, and the individual that sold him to me did not disclose much information as to what goes into taking care of a chameleon. We are doing our best, but we feel like there are adjustments that can be made to hopefully address this behavior. The behavior we are most concerned about is the screen climbing, particularly trying to climb the ceiling of his cage to get closer to the light fixtures. I don't know if I need an alternate UVB strip, I know I have to make an adjustment with his heat lamp however.

It should be noted that he has entered his sexually mature age-range as he was born in august making him approx. 7-8 months old.

He does not exhibit any signs of being sick. his colors always look vibrant, never dulled down or brown. He eats and sleeps normally, he starts preparing to sleep on his perch about an hour before his uvb turns off when I turn off his heat lamp. When I come home from work, he is almost always on his basking perch and does not show any indication that he was exhibiting the behavior in question when me and my partner are not at home. There are other things I know I have to adjust in his cage such as adding more horizontal perches.

Husbandry is as follows:
Your chameleon: 7 month translucent piebald veiled chameleon

Handling: 1-2x per day for about 20 minutes

Feeding: About 7-9 crickets daily, daily afternoon snack of either dubia roaches or mealworms (usually about 2-3 roaches/worms)

Supplements: Repashy calcium plus with his morning and evening crickets, Reptivite with D3 (2x per week (also with his morning crickets) - (I’m planning on substituting the repashy calcium for plain calcium w/no D3 and would like to add a once monthly multivitamin)

• Watering: Misting 2-3x per day; we have a press/hold release type sprayer where you don't need to pump i.e it releases a steady stream of water

Fecal description: Poops/pees 2-3 times a week, fecal matter is brown and not runny, urate is usually entirely white. Sometimes a clear film separates the two as he is peeing/pooping

• History: Has fallen once. Has almost fallen a few times but always manages to catch himself with his tail. I have noticed him shaking a bit when he pulls himself in
onto his perch, so I am concerned about his calcium intake.


• Cage info
Cage type: 18*18*36 Reptibreeze

Lighting: 1 slimline by Zilla T8 16 watt UVB light, 1 Zoomed UVA basking 50 watt heat lamp.

• Temperature: Basking 82 ambient 72 (I attempted to raise the basking temp by going up to a 75 Watt bulb but this made temps too high, so I intend to try a 60 W next.)

• Humidity: 40-50% during day. I'm shooting for 75% evening humidity but have to take more measurements to confirm that I am getting close to this. We do not have an automated misting system, but Iroh has never exhibited any signs of dehydration in his urates.

Plants: 1 golden pathos, 1 money tree - both have been thoroughly washed and re-potted. Put substrate soil on top to cover organic soil. There are some plastic/Silk plants to try and take up some negative space. I am aware plastic and silk plants are not advised on the forms, and am looking into more suitable alternatives.

―

Placement: Dining room - this is in front of our only entrance to our apartment. When he is sleeping we cover his cage to prevent any light from the hallway from waking him up. We also cover his cage while he sleeps so we may still use the rest of our living room after 7pm.
Location: Southeastern Wisconsin

 

[MissSkittles]

Hi and welcome to the forum! Give me a bit of time and I’ll go thru your husbandry and see how I can help.

 

[MissSkittles]

I’ll be putting my feedback in bold. If something is especially important, I’ll be putting it in red. Also, I’ll be breaking this down into two parts. I talk a lot.

Your chameleon: 7 month translucent piebald veiled chameleon I love pieds. He’s very handsome and those little pink feets!

Handling: 1-2x per day for about 20 minutes I’ll address his friendliness/willingness to come out at the end.

Feeding: About 7-9 crickets daily, daily afternoon snack of either dubia roaches or mealworms (usually about 2-3 roaches/worms) Just one feeding in the morning is best. He is still growing, but you do need to be careful that he doesn’t become obese. If his cheeks or casque start puffing out, cut down on his feedings. Otherwise, by the time he’s around 11-12 months old, you’ll want to be feeding him 3-4 feeders every other day (plus treats). Mealworms aren’t a very good staple feeder and you could add a little more variety. It’s also very important that you keep your feeders well fed and healthy, so that they are more nutritious. Attaching some graphics to help. One of the treats that I think my chameleons really enjoy is bsfl that has been allowed to pupate into flies. It’s nice enrichment for them to have a challenging little hunt.

Supplements: Repashy calcium plus with his morning and evening crickets, Reptivite with D3 (2x per week (also with his morning crickets) - (I’m planning on substituting the repashy calcium for plain calcium w/no D3 and would like to add a once monthly multivitamin) He is getting overdosed with vitamin D3 and preformed vitamin A, as well as other fat soluble vitamins. You need to use a phosphorus-free calcium without D3 lightly dusted at every feeding except when using a different supplement. Then, for one feeding every other week you will use the ReptiVite with D3. Since he has been getting far too much vitamins and minerals, I would hold off on giving him any more for about a month. Just give the plain calcium without D3. The fat soluble vitamins need time to be metabolized and excreted…they are not quickly processed by the body. The ReptiVite with D3 is a combination multivitamin and D3, so that plus the plain calcium is all that is needed. The Repashy Calcium Plus is also a combination multivitamin and D3, but is very high in D3 and vit A.

• Watering: Misting 2-3x per day; we have a press/hold release type sprayer where you don't need to pump i.e it releases a steady stream of water Sounds good, but how long are you misting for? Ideally we mist for at least two minutes right before lights go on and off. If needed, an additional 1 minute misting or use of a dripper for 15 minutes or so can be added. Many chameleons are secret drinkers, so we look to the urate to determine their hydration status.

Fecal description: Poops/pees 2-3 times a week, fecal matter is brown and not runny, urate is usually entirely white. Sometimes a clear film separates the two as he is peeing/pooping Sounds about right. It’s always a good idea to get a fecal.

• History: Has fallen once. Has almost fallen a few times but always manages to catch himself with his tail. I have noticed him shaking a bit when he pulls himself in
onto his perch, so I am concerned about his calcium intake. It is not the calcium, but is the D3. Signs of D3 overdose often resemble those of mbd. Once the D3 works its way out of his body, these things should stop. Calcium and D3 are not just for bones, but also are important for muscles and nerves and so much more. This may help. However, do NOT give any more vitamin A as that also has been overdosed. https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/d3-poisoning.2401/ https://todaysveterinarypractice.co...1/TVP-2018-1112_Hypervitaminosis_Reptiles.pdf

 

[MissSkittles]

Cage info
Cage type: 18*18*36 Reptibreeze This is a bit too small for an adult veiled chameleon. The minimum standard is 2x2x4’ or equivalent. I’ve got to be a cheerleader for going even bigger if you are able. https://chameleonacademy.com/double-wide-chameleon-cage-project/ I’ve been upgrading all of my chams to double sized and even my girls use all of the space.
Lighting: 1 slimline by Zilla T8 16 watt UVB light,I’m afraid this isn’t really adequate. While you can remove the plastic cover which is blocking uvb, the reflector is poor and I have no idea what the output is. You would be much better to get an Arcadia Pro T5 with a 6% uvb or a ReptiSun T5 with a 5.0 uvb. https://www.lightyourreptiles.com/arcadia-pro-t5-fixture-6-bulb-22-5-sale-now-only-69-99/ I prefer Arcadia as the bulbs are good for a year. I have tested a ReptiZoo uvb light (it is a friendlier price) and was sadly disappointed. While the fixture seems ok, the bulb output is dismal. With one of the lights I’ve suggested, then for ideal uvb level the basking area needs to be about 8-9” below the lights. 1 Zoomed UVA basking 50 watt heat lamp.
**While your guy has been looking to climb the screen top, I believe he is probably too heavy to do so. It is something that baby and young chams like to do and they are light enough to do it. If your guy is still light enough and is walking upside down along the screen top, you will need to raise your lights at least a few inches above the screen to reduce risks of burns.

• Temperature: Basking 82 ambient 72 (I attempted to raise the basking temp by going up to a 75 Watt bulb but this made temps too high, so I intend to try a 60 W next.) 82 is a good basking temp. You don’t want to go above 85. What are your night time temps? The ideal is to have a significant cooling off at night, preferably below 68-70. Not everyone can achieve that, but we do what we can.

• Humidity: 40-50% during day. Perfect! I'm shooting for 75% evening humidity but have to take more measurements to confirm that I am getting close to this. We do not have an automated misting system, but Iroh has never exhibited any signs of dehydration in his urates. You only want to raise humidity at night if you are able to consistently achieve the temp drop below 68. If you can, then you could hook up a fogger/cool mist humidifier for a few hours in the very early AM to boost humidity all the way. This simulates the natural hydration from fog that they get in the wild.

Plants: 1 golden pathos, 1 money tree - both have been thoroughly washed and re-potted. Put substrate soil on top to cover organic soil. There are some plastic/Silk plants to try and take up some negative space. I am aware plastic and silk plants are not advised on the forms, and am looking into more suitable alternatives. Pothos comes in several different varieties and is just perfect for chameleons. Tradescantia Zebrina is nice and gives a little pop of color and interest. This may help. https://chameleonacademy.com/plants/ Do keep in mind that some of the plants that are usually kept outside will be needing a strong plant light. Some use the Arcadia Jungle Dawn. I like Sansi (currently on sale) https://www.sansiled.com/products/70w-led-grow-light

―

Placement: Dining room - this is in front of our only entrance to our apartment. When he is sleeping we cover his cage to prevent any light from the hallway from waking him up. We also cover his cage while he sleeps so we may still use the rest of our living room after 7pm. You won’t want to cover the top of his enclosure though as you’ll be impairing ventilation. I use curtains which I can just pull over for my animals which are in my main living area. I see that you have something on the side, which I’ll assume is your cover.

Location: Southeastern Wisconsin

Now I’ll try to address your concerns and answer your questions the best I can.
As a general rule, veileds are not the friendliest of chameleons and it’s rare to have one that willingly comes out to you. While you may indeed have the rare one, more than likely he is wanting to come out because he isn’t all that happy with his enclosure. I’ve already gone over the size…he needs and wants more space. He also is needing more branches and vines to climb and travel on. This is also likely responsible for why he is screen climbing. However, sometimes you can give them so very many branches and they will still screen climb. It is challenging to hang things, but there are solutions. One is Dragon Ledges, which are wonderful! https://dragonstrand.com/dragon-ledges/ Not too long ago I needed to set up an enclosure and lacked the time to order some dragon ledges, so I improvised with scrap garden trellis. It worked out so well that this is what I’ve been using as I set up new enclosures. I drill some small holes in the trellis ends and using thin wire, attach it to the enclosure frame. To prevent it from sliding down I attach a couple of screws to the frame to wrap the wire around. Super easy, economical and looks quite nice. I use natural branches that I’ve scavenged when my neighbors trim their oak trees. Just avoid pine, eucalyptus and other trees with strong odor and sap. Use a variety of diameter branches to properly exercise the cute pink mitten feet. Make plenty of little roads for him to travel as he patrols his enclosure. If using vine, avoid the Exo Terra ones. Fluker’s makes a nice foam one. Make sure to have areas where he can take shade from his lights and heat and hiding places. I hated to throw away my fake plants once I replaced them with real, so I hung them on the outside of the enclosures for added privacy.
You mention having a substrate. It is best to keep the floor bare or you can do a bioactive set up (it’s nice but takes some expense and work to set up).
I think once you get your handsome guy a bigger and better enclosure set up, he will probably stop wanting to come out all of the time. Once he gets all of the fat soluble vitamins out of his system, he should lose the shakiness, not fall (provided he has plenty of little cham roads) and will be okay.
If you haven’t already found https://chameleonacademy.com/ it is an awesome resource. Along with the website, there is a fantastic pod cast, videos (I think most on YouTube) and an e zine. My favorite is that you can learn why we do things a certain way and there are many ‘specialists’ of varied fields as guests in podcasts who go in depth about stuff. Anyhow, do ask if you have any questions. I feel like I’ve thrown a lot of info at you. The most important is getting the uvb and supplements corrected first. Plants and such can wait a little bit.
pics of attaching trellis to enclosure frame. Size difference of a 16x16x30” and a 2x2x4’. (Old pic from when I was just learning)

 

[IrohtheVeiled]

Cage info
Cage type: 18*18*36 Reptibreeze This is a bit too small for an adult veiled chameleon. The minimum standard is 2x2x4’ or equivalent. I’ve got to be a cheerleader for going even bigger if you are able. https://chameleonacademy.com/double-wide-chameleon-cage-project/ I’ve been upgrading all of my chams to double sized and even my girls use all of the space.
Lighting: 1 slimline by Zilla T8 16 watt UVB light,I’m afraid this isn’t really adequate. While you can remove the plastic cover which is blocking uvb, the reflector is poor and I have no idea what the output is. You would be much better to get an Arcadia Pro T5 with a 6% uvb or a ReptiSun T5 with a 5.0 uvb. https://www.lightyourreptiles.com/arcadia-pro-t5-fixture-6-bulb-22-5-sale-now-only-69-99/ I prefer Arcadia as the bulbs are good for a year. I have tested a ReptiZoo uvb light (it is a friendlier price) and was sadly disappointed. While the fixture seems ok, the bulb output is dismal. With one of the lights I’ve suggested, then for ideal uvb level the basking area needs to be about 8-9” below the lights. 1 Zoomed UVA basking 50 watt heat lamp.
**While your guy has been looking to climb the screen top, I believe he is probably too heavy to do so. It is something that baby and young chams like to do and they are light enough to do it. If your guy is still light enough and is walking upside down along the screen top, you will need to raise your lights at least a few inches above the screen to reduce risks of burns.

• Temperature: Basking 82 ambient 72 (I attempted to raise the basking temp by going up to a 75 Watt bulb but this made temps too high, so I intend to try a 60 W next.) 82 is a good basking temp. You don’t want to go above 85. What are your night time temps? The ideal is to have a significant cooling off at night, preferably below 68-70. Not everyone can achieve that, but we do what we can.

• Humidity: 40-50% during day. Perfect! I'm shooting for 75% evening humidity but have to take more measurements to confirm that I am getting close to this. We do not have an automated misting system, but Iroh has never exhibited any signs of dehydration in his urates. You only want to raise humidity at night if you are able to consistently achieve the temp drop below 68. If you can, then you could hook up a fogger/cool mist humidifier for a few hours in the very early AM to boost humidity all the way. This simulates the natural hydration from fog that they get in the wild.

Plants: 1 golden pathos, 1 money tree - both have been thoroughly washed and re-potted. Put substrate soil on top to cover organic soil. There are some plastic/Silk plants to try and take up some negative space. I am aware plastic and silk plants are not advised on the forms, and am looking into more suitable alternatives. Pothos comes in several different varieties and is just perfect for chameleons. Tradescantia Zebrina is nice and gives a little pop of color and interest. This may help. https://chameleonacademy.com/plants/ Do keep in mind that some of the plants that are usually kept outside will be needing a strong plant light. Some use the Arcadia Jungle Dawn. I like Sansi (currently on sale) https://www.sansiled.com/products/70w-led-grow-light

―

Placement: Dining room - this is in front of our only entrance to our apartment. When he is sleeping we cover his cage to prevent any light from the hallway from waking him up. We also cover his cage while he sleeps so we may still use the rest of our living room after 7pm. You won’t want to cover the top of his enclosure though as you’ll be impairing ventilation. I use curtains which I can just pull over for my animals which are in my main living area. I see that you have something on the side, which I’ll assume is your cover.

Location: Southeastern Wisconsin

Now I’ll try to address your concerns and answer your questions the best I can.
As a general rule, veileds are not the friendliest of chameleons and it’s rare to have one that willingly comes out to you. While you may indeed have the rare one, more than likely he is wanting to come out because he isn’t all that happy with his enclosure. I’ve already gone over the size…he needs and wants more space. He also is needing more branches and vines to climb and travel on. This is also likely responsible for why he is screen climbing. However, sometimes you can give them so very many branches and they will still screen climb. It is challenging to hang things, but there are solutions. One is Dragon Ledges, which are wonderful! https://dragonstrand.com/dragon-ledges/ Not too long ago I needed to set up an enclosure and lacked the time to order some dragon ledges, so I improvised with scrap garden trellis. It worked out so well that this is what I’ve been using as I set up new enclosures. I drill some small holes in the trellis ends and using thin wire, attach it to the enclosure frame. To prevent it from sliding down I attach a couple of screws to the frame to wrap the wire around. Super easy, economical and looks quite nice. I use natural branches that I’ve scavenged when my neighbors trim their oak trees. Just avoid pine, eucalyptus and other trees with strong odor and sap. Use a variety of diameter branches to properly exercise the cute pink mitten feet. Make plenty of little roads for him to travel as he patrols his enclosure. If using vine, avoid the Exo Terra ones. Fluker’s makes a nice foam one. Make sure to have areas where he can take shade from his lights and heat and hiding places. I hated to throw away my fake plants once I replaced them with real, so I hung them on the outside of the enclosures for added privacy.
You mention having a substrate. It is best to keep the floor bare or you can do a bioactive set up (it’s nice but takes some expense and work to set up).
I think once you get your handsome guy a bigger and better enclosure set up, he will probably stop wanting to come out all of the time. Once he gets all of the fat soluble vitamins out of his system, he should lose the shakiness, not fall (provided he has plenty of little cham roads) and will be okay.
If you haven’t already found https://chameleonacademy.com/ it is an awesome resource. Along with the website, there is a fantastic pod cast, videos (I think most on YouTube) and an e zine. My favorite is that you can learn why we do things a certain way and there are many ‘specialists’ of varied fields as guests in podcasts who go in depth about stuff. Anyhow, do ask if you have any questions. I feel like I’ve thrown a lot of info at you. The most important is getting the uvb and supplements corrected first. Plants and such can wait a little bit.
pics of attaching trellis to enclosure frame. Size difference of a 16x16x30” and a 2x2x4’. (Old pic from when I was just learning)
View attachment 353880View attachment 353881View attachment 353882View attachment 353883

Hey I just wanted to say thanks for getting back to me so soon, I really appreciate it. I realized my error in supplementation and I was going to address this first by replacing the calcium I had, this to me was the most apparent issue at hand, and one that I know leads to health issues. I forgot to mention in the husbandry, we do gutload feeders, however with commercial gutload products, I am not opposed to switching over to making them myself.

I had a strong feeling him crawling towards the UVB was for the reason you mentioned in your comment with my lighting - I had a feeling the UVB he is getting in inadequate. I think it would likely stop when I replace it. Another challenge with lighting I've been facing is trying to position lights so that he can get the uvb and the heat lamp both hit his highest perch. I really wanted to add more pathways for him to navigate his cage, securing them was the issue that I was running into, so I appreciate those recommendations of methods of how to do so. We have a wooded area right behind our apartments with lots of suitable branches that could be used.

And we definitely did not think our cham was friendly towards us and had a suspected it was due to husbandry rather than him being social. It has all been a learning curb for us and we're continuing to attempt to make adjustments to make our veiled a healthy happy cham.

Thanks for confirming humidity and temps were adequate. Nighttime temps rest upper-mid 60s probably close to 67-68. We have central air so this is something we can maintain year round where we're at now. And we mist for aprox 1-2 mins each time we mist at the intervals you mentioned (lights on lights off).

We really do appreciate your input and recommendations and hope to be able to follow up soon with updates as we make adjustments for him.

 

[IrohtheVeiled]

Oh and i saw the uvb lighting you recommended was on sale for 69 bucks for the hood and the bulb so I just purchased that right away, thanks for that.

 

[elizaann2]

Hello and welcome! I love your veiled

 

[IrohtheVeiled]

Hello and welcome! I love your veiled

Thank you!

Yeah he’s a very expressive handsome Cham

 

[IrohtheVeiled]

*update*

Proper uvb lighting has been ordered, d3/phos. Free calcium has been substituted. Trying to make his current enclosure more stimulating in the interim while I’m figuring out the logistics of a larger one in our home.

I removed the plastic from the current uvb fixture while I wait for the t5 to come.

I’m guessing I’ll have to raise the new lamp up a couple of inches to make sure Iroh stays in the safe zone, but I can’t imagine that is too difficult.

 

[IrohtheVeiled]

*2nd update*

Adequate UVB lighting has been received. An order has been placed for a reptibreeze 24x24x48 cage as well as dragon ledges to hopefully create a nice hanging garden for our little guy.

Now I’ll be spending my weekend taking a hike to scavenge for some suitable branches to prepare for when the cages and ledges arrive to make him his (hopefully) forever home.

 

[IrohtheVeiled]

*3rd update*
Iroh’s 2x2x4 cage has arrived. I’m working on building the branch system and acquiring some mature plants. I’ll post pics to this thread when it is completed. I have enough structural branches to make the brackets for network branches and perches and I’ll be doing this over this week so I can hopefully move him to his new home Thursday. After he is moved in the next issue I’m looking at is nighttime humidity, I have to find a way to raise it, and will probably be looking into a misting system for him.

I have acquired a jungle dawn to link to the Arcadia uvb fixture to provide lighting to the plants I am purchasing.

His enclosure will have two mature pothos plants to ensure dense cover in the lower half of the cage as well as a money tree for a center piece mounted to the lower portion of the back panel.

 

[TheMotherChameleon]

As long as your nighttime temps are are around 67 you can fog which will help raise nighttime humidity.

 

[IrohtheVeiled]

*4th update*

Irohs big boy cage has been planted, I’m installing the branches tomorrow and he should be moved in end of day with adequate lighting! It’s been an ongoing project but I anticipate he will be very happy with the end result.

The top pothos is a mature plant, the money tree has some growing to do. I ordered a 2nd pothos in the mail but it hasn’t come. Not sure if it’d be overkill to have two large trailing plants or not but I’m gonna try and make to replace the baby pothos with the full grown one that’s being shipped if I can.

 

[IrohtheVeiled]

Here he is rehoused and happy!

 

[MissSkittles]

You can never have too much pothos. It all looks great and he is the gorgeous king of his castle.