Trooper Twister's recent x-rays

HolyToledo

HolyToledo

New Member
I'm don't know how to make sense of these. Doesn't help that Twister was really living up to his name and giving them a hard time when they were trying to get the x-rays. They had to stop a few times cuz he was being such a twerp. Then when they weren't trying to take his pics, he was just wonderful for them!

Tough to make out anything but good ribs, and crooked leg bones, especially when this one looks like a very awkward position.
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In this one, it is easiest to see where his back is broken (up just a bit from his back leg which you can also see the thigh bone is pretty bent).
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I hope all the white in this one means that his guts are full of calcium? And you can see more of his bent/broken legs.
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Feel free to guess about what is going on with those things in his innards. I haven't had a chance to ask the doc yet...
 
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I'm not very good with X-rays but we do have a vet on here now and maybe he'll see them and offer his opinion. How's Trooper doing today?
 
can someone give me a start here and link me back to whatever is going on here---i'm showing the first page only,

thanks,

dr.o-
 
ok......so playing catch-up, he's been breaking bones left and right (and middle) without any horrendous misteps in husbandry, it does NOT appear to be MBD, and we're trying to interpret some of these rads pictured here?

o-
 
Kevin, you were on my list of people I hoped would see this thread.

Trooper (the chameleon) did apparently have MBD, his owner has worked to correct things. After significant improvement, the chameleon suddenly seemed hostile and injured, the X-rays are of his spine. The vet has said there is a compression fracture which is causing the infirmity in the lower extremities.

I hope I distilled that all correctly.
 
I feel like Kevin is going to be the go-to guy for all of our health questions. He's been here for a month give or take, and he's already helped me out too. Sorry Doc. Too bad we can't pay you for your services. Lol. ;)
 
ok, i dunno how much help i can be specifically since there was obviosuly a pretty good struggle taking the rads and they're pretty cockeyed. i tried to digitally clean them up as best as i could. in addition, if i were going to repeat rads for any reason in the future i would strongly consider giving him a few puffs of gas that he'll wake up from a few minutes later, and he won't have any clue that he just had very good radiographs; and needless to say you're not struggling with a chameleon with a broken back. just food for thought.

besides the various bones and organs that can be seen, i noted a few areas with numbers;

#1 is the (powdered?) calcium supplement in his stomach and likely transverse to descending duodenum that he must be taking orally. that's good, he's getting some calcium in his system.

#2 is one particularly bad old fracture/injury. the bone is basically destroyed there, typical in osteomyelitis in "normal bones", or poor bone construction after a fracture in MBD.

#3 certainly unfortunately shows a compression fracture from this one angle, however the missing xray could certainly show an even worse separation of the bones from each other altogether, no matter if the spinal cord is still attached or stretched. you can see the area where the bone "bows up". it's obviously not a good place to have a fracture.

those are the most important divergents from a normal x-ray that i'm seeing here, i'm so sorry y'all are having to go through with this. treatment would certainly be as it would with any severe case of MBD. i'll keep following along and try and catch up, but if there's anything else that i can try to answer or help with, let me know.

dr. o-
 
Thank you soooo much Dr. O for clearing up some of my questions on these x-rays.

I am an emotional twit right now and was even worse at the appointment. When I got there, I was sure this time was gonna be it for Trooper Twister because I just knew his back was broken...

Of course the office had a lot going on and when Dr. Dan came back, he had popped in real quick to let me know what was going on. As soon as he said that he felt we should give Twister a chance to see how he handles this chapter, I bundled him up and left! So, as usual, I didn't get good details and later didn't have copies of the x-rays when the doc was trying to explain what was going on with his back and legs.

Thanks too to you that clued the doc in on Twister's history. I've been really busy with this little guy. And other than not pooping yet, I'm surprised at how well he is doing...
 
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Copy of pm I sent to Kevinopp:

A small portion of his gut contents could be a tongueful of sand. He has always been a freak for the stuff and figured where some got spilled in a window frame and won't vacuum out but he manages to get to it now and then!

This little guy has been through hell but still is hanging in there. Funny how his issues started after viv moved (Sept 2011) and he no longer got direct sunlight (too cold outside after Nov) even though most was through glass?

Since Dec 2011 he has suffered at least one break/compromise per leg but his casque, jaw, and ribs are good and isn't it those areas that suffer most with MBD?

We started with an intensified supplement schedule (liquid or powdered Ca daily, Ca+D3 every 10-14 days, Reptivite 1x mo) and increased hydration, temperatures, and UV exposure and his bones have been healing well.

Some think that his medical care has been lacking: only the two sets of x-rays Sept 2011 and Apr 2012 and no blood work done. I cannot disagree with that opinion because of the answers the bloodwork might provide. BUT, Twister does not tolerate puncture well at all (week long hunger/drinking strikes) and Dr. Dan says his condition is too fragile for now. We were getting ready to work on figuring out possible cause because he was doing so well when he fell and broke his back. Dr. Dan said with many he would suggest euthanasia but felt that with this little guy's survival history, his eating, drinking and alertness we should allow him to tell us when it is time to throw in the towel.

So, here we go again... (he is worth it though!)

I appreciate your suggestion of gas and will ask Dr. Dan about that for possible upcoming enema (hasn't pooped in a week and am trying pear baby food because that worked in the past).

Thanks sooooo much for your time and attention you have shared with us. Twister is a trooper and I value any input you may have for us in the future.

Jackie (and Twister!)

PS: Sorry this is so long, and would you suggest mineral oil, vegetable oil, or something else before resorting to enema?
 
Is he getting more movement in his rear legs and tail?

Remember, they can go a really long time without pooping even if nothing is wrong, so don't freak out on that issue too much...just freak out enough, okay?
 
HolyToledo said:
A small portion of his gut contents could be a tongueful of sand.


Do you suggest mineral oil, vegetable oil, or something else before resorting to enema?
Click to expand...

IME, and really radiologically, sand is typically not that bright (unless it is calcisand). X-rays are really about reading 5 specific shades of white to black and how they interact. And that there looks a lot like calcium.


Mineral oil down the respiratory tract of virtually any animal, it is exceedingly dangerous b/c the body just literally cannot break it down. Wherever it lands it just blocks oxygen transfer, and reptiles have REALLY primitive lungs compared to ours.

And it is cumulative.

Anyway, I will typically use some quantity of docusate sodium (DSS) in propylene glycol depending on the animals weight, severity of hydration, and how fast I'm planning on rehydrating them after the dose.

I'm not posting the recipe on here, it can kill an animal in poor condition easily too unless done right; sorry.

dr. o-
 
Overall improvement

Elizadolots said:
Is he getting more movement in his rear legs and tail?
Click to expand...

WooHoo!! Progress report is very favorable!

This evening he went off and left that right leg behind again, but I followed your advice and waited him out and it was only a couple of minutes before he opened that foot and pulled the leg forward! Then he forgot he had it again but there is progress in the control department.
Any use of the left leg comes and goes and I even have a pic of him standing on both feet! The left foot is always responsive now, even when he isn't using the leg at all, and always has a faint grip when the inside of his mitten is touched now.
His tail--sometimes he just hangs it limp and straight. I am watching closely to try to see if limpness corresponds to when the left leg is useless. Other times though he can curl about the bottom third and has even begun wrapping it around stems and stuff.

And 'PoopWatch 2012" has results! Ugly results but he did poop? It worries me because there was mostly urate (back to the mostly orange with a bit of white), and he acted like it was painful or something...
Will post a picture as soon as I get it uploaded. It is UGLY though and I know everyone will yell about dehydration and I really do offer him water almost hourly and he drinks some every few hours. This is what his urate was looking like awhile back too, but I have never seen this much at one time before. I know it has been a week but jeez, no wonder it hurt and maybe it hurt so bad, he didn't finish the job with the feces???

For the last two nights, he has slept through fairly quietly. Maybe I will be able to sleep tonight...
 
Lousy picture of the UGLY urate

Looking at the pic, it looks even worse than in reality and it is baaaad enough for real! As you can see, there is a white portion. The orange is way too dark for my liking but it looks even darker in this pic and there is lots more than he has ever produced at one time! And, other than the quantity, we have been at this stage of color before and pulled out of it. I guess I was thrilled too soon because right before breaking his back, we were back to light yellow and white urates.

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So, there has been progress on the ability to move but definite regression in this department...:(
 
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Progress is good! It's possible that the urate looks so orange because it's been inside his body for so long. I'm sure it's uncomfortable for him to poop at the moment. It sounds like things are definitely improving. Remember, recovery is not linear...I know you know that, but sometimes it's good to be reminded.
 
This time we have POOP!

Boy do we have poop.

Don't know if it was the pears or yesterday I gave him 2 drops of Reptaid. But something worked.

Must have taken alot of pressure off too because he is using both feet and legs and tail much more. Not recovered by a long shot but a big step forward...
 
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