The Concerns About the Recent Cameroon Imports

[Motherlode Chameleon]

I have got to say that the wild caught imports from Madagascar look in great shape compared to the wild caught imports from Cameroon this holiday season. Although much of the Cameroon order seemed not accurately placed with not sending most of the best Trioceros quadricornis to breeding groups.

Best Regards
Jeremy A. Rich

 

[OldChamKeeper]

I have got to say that the wild caught imports from Madagascar look in great shape compared to the wild caught imports from Cameroon this holiday season. Although much of the Cameroon order seemed not accurately placed with not sending most of the best Trioceros quadricornis to breeding groups.

Best Regards
Jeremy A. Rich

That's an understatement. Backwater got some GREAT animals from the importer which they posted all over the place while the Quad collective that sent in thousands of dollars for "the best pick" got craptastic B grade animals or not even the sexes they paid for. I'm still waiting to hear if Laurie and Bill were able to work anything out but since the best animals were sold off by the importer for max profits I doubt anything can be done except to never buy from this guy again unless it is a cheap day gecko. It'll be a nice ending if something is worked out. They got hosed.

 

[Mike Fisher]

At least they got the right species. I recently purchased a large group from a different importer and got the wrong species entirely. The reply was "We'll address it and try to do better in the future."

So I got stuck with them.

 

[Chase]

At least they got the right species. I recently purchased a large group from a different importer and got the wrong species entirely. The reply was "We'll address it and try to do better in the future."

So I got stuck with them.

That's messed up. Was that when you got the tavetana?

Chase

 

[GCash]

That's an understatement. Backwater got some GREAT animals from the importer which they posted all over the place while the Quad collective that sent in thousands of dollars for "the best pick" got craptastic B grade animals or not even the sexes they paid for. I'm still waiting to hear if Laurie and Bill were able to work anything out but since the best animals were sold off by the importer for max profits I doubt anything can be done except to never buy from this guy again unless it is a cheap day gecko. It'll be a nice ending if something is worked out. They got hosed.

Please forgive for me having to state facts because i want nothing more than Bill, Tylene and Laurie to succeed in their endeavor and have nothing but respect for them, but the actual queue was that I was alerted to the shipment that had arrived by jajeanpierre's post(1). I called as soon as they opened the next day and found out that a large lot had already sold(Backwater Reptiles I'm guessing since he was the next to post pics,2). I placed my order(3), and was told another party was interested in a large number of them(the Quad Collective I presume,4) but hadn't committed at the time of my order. I must reiterate that I wish nothing but the best of luck to the collective and hope to be an extension myself, however small of a part I may be. They are doing something we all should applaud.

As for the importer, I must say I've been treated very well aside from the animals being in poor condition, which I place blame on the exporter for that. As Mike Fisher has already stated, is pure animal abuse/cruelty. Something that a small amount of education and caring could fix.

 

[Mike Fisher]

That's messed up. Was that when you got the tavetana?

Chase

Yes, just the way it is. I take lemons and make lemonade, so it's all good. Just an example of what can happen.

 

[Chase]

Yes, just the way it is. I take lemons and make lemonade, so it's all good. Just an example of what can happen.

That's how it should be. There would be a lot of people who would pitch a fit about it happening, but in the grand scheme of things, what good does it do.

Chase

 

[Mike Fisher]

That's how it should be. There would be a lot of people who would pitch a fit about it happening, but in the grand scheme of things, what good does it do.

Chase

I would never consider shipping them back, and if I go all militant on the importer, guess who it will hurt on future purchases? I don't bite the hand that feeds me.

 

[Chase]

I would never consider shipping them back, and if I go all militant on the importer, guess who it will hurt on future purchases? I don't bite the hand that feeds me.

Exactly. Plus, it gave you a different experience than you expected

Chase

 

[laurie]

Please forgive for me having to state facts because i want nothing more than Bill, Tylene and Laurie to succeed in their endeavor and have nothing but respect for them, but the actual queue was that I was alerted to the shipment that had arrived by jajeanpierre's post(1). I called as soon as they opened the next day and found out that a large lot had already sold(Backwater Reptiles I'm guessing since he was the next to post pics,2). I placed my order(3), and was told another party was interested in a large number of them(the Quad Collective I presume,4) but hadn't committed at the time of my order. I must reiterate that I wish nothing but the best of luck to the collective and hope to be an extension myself, however small of a part I may be. They are doing something we all should applaud.

As for the importer, I must say I've been treated very well aside from the animals being in poor condition, which I place blame on the exporter for that. As Mike Fisher has already stated, is pure animal abuse/cruelty. Something that a small amount of education and caring could fix.

I am not sure when you placed your order, But I put $4,000 on the table to lockup our purchase. I did this as soon as I knew they were coming in. He and I were emailing before he even had the chams. I talked to Craig but only after I had spoke with his girl friend. I was told we would get good chams. Period. That is about it.

All we want to do is produce a captive population of quads in the US. We are happy that you will be working toward the same goal.

 

[Mike Fisher]

All we want to do is produce a captive population of quads in the US. We are happy that you will be working toward the same goal.

I wish you guys the best of luck with your group! It will be exciting to have affordable CB T. quadricornis in the USA.

 

[GCash]

I am not sure when you placed your order, But I put $4,000 on the table to lockup our purchase. I did this as soon as I knew they were coming in. He and I were emailing before he even had the chams. I talked to Craig but only after I had spoke with his girl friend. I was told we would get good chams. Period. That is about it.

All we want to do is produce a captive population of quads in the US. We are happy that you will be working toward the same goal.

I stand corrected. If you had a deposit down, that is pretty messed up. From the information I received, which was non-specific, this picture was painted. I hope you all can accept my apologies for the previous post. Sorry.

 

[OldChamKeeper]

I stand corrected. If you had a deposit down, that is pretty messed up. From the information I received, which was non-specific, this picture was painted. I hope you all can accept my apologies for the previous post. Sorry.

Misinformation is standard when somebody is trying to cover their butt. Apology accepted. I'm referring to the importer as the person covering their rear by the way

Like Laurie said, we put down a large amount of money, more than enough to make any importer happy as a sale. Instead of us getting solid and healthy animals he used the fact he already had a bunch sold to cherry pick the nicest out for himself and his other retail customers. Then he left the rest with us. He considered it good business, it guaranteed him a minimal amount of animals dying on him as the importer, it guaranteed him as the importer not being stuck with too many animals he can't sell, it made him as the importer look good to places like Backwater or some of the individuals who just happened to buy a Quad as a pet from him.

However to many of us in this hobby for decades, with experience to match, he just tossed us as customers out the window virtually guaranteeing we won't ever spend big bucks with him again. I sure as hell won't and I will steer many of the beginners away from him who ask me for info on where to pick up an animal.

Has he bothered to make good on the animals Laurie or did all the good ones get sold already to random individuals? The female I have is doing ok, but it sure as hell was not as nice as the ones Backwater was selling. Then there's poor bill who paid for three females and only has one to show for the money... he paid over $600 for one healthy female when you break it down but Backwater courtesy of this importer had multiple nice females all for sale for around $200+

$4000 bucks...and even that amount couldn't get us solid animals from this importer. That's something for all of you to think about when it comes to those of us looking to spend good money on the rare stuff.

 

[Motherlode Chameleon]

Misinformation is standard when somebody is trying to cover their butt. Apology accepted. I'm referring to the importer as the person covering their rear by the way

Like Laurie said, we put down a large amount of money, more than enough to make any importer happy as a sale. Instead of us getting solid and healthy animals he used the fact he already had a bunch sold to cherry pick the nicest out for himself and his other retail customers. Then he left the rest with us. He considered it good business, it guaranteed him a minimal amount of animals dying on him as the importer, it guaranteed him as the importer not being stuck with too many animals he can't sell, it made him as the importer look good to places like Backwater or some of the individuals who just happened to buy a Quad as a pet from him.

However to many of us in this hobby for decades, with experience to match, he just tossed us as customers out the window virtually guaranteeing we won't ever spend big bucks with him again. I sure as hell won't and I will steer many of the beginners away from him who ask me for info on where to pick up an animal.

Has he bothered to make good on the animals Laurie or did all the good ones get sold already to random individuals? The female I have is doing ok, but it sure as hell was not as nice as the ones Backwater was selling. Then there's poor bill who paid for three females and only has one to show for the money... he paid over $600 for one healthy female when you break it down but Backwater courtesy of this importer had multiple nice females all for sale for around $200+

$4000 bucks...and even that amount couldn't get us solid animals from this importer. That's something for all of you to think about when it comes to those of us looking to spend good money on the rare stuff.

I would seriously make a call and talk to the owner. The owner promised you the best pick and reneged on his deal. The owner has to make amends or has a debt to be paid of some kind with your breeding group for the quality of Trioceros quadricornis he sent you. Your unhappy with his business and another shipment is arriving next year. The owner should make amends on the promise the owner broke.

Best Regards
Jeremy A. Rich

 

[OldChamKeeper]

I would seriously make a call and talk to the owner. The owner promised you the best pick and reneged on his deal. The owner has to make amends or has a debt to be paid of some kind with your breeding group for the quality of Trioceros quadricornis he sent you. Your unhappy with his business and another shipment is arriving next year. The owner should make amends on the promise the owner broke.

Best Regards
Jeremy A. Rich

Here is the real real short version of the law: The person who made the purchase is the only person who can call and complain about it or do more than call and complain if it goes on to become a legal issue. Anybody else has no claim to doing anything. Seriously since the animals were "sold" to Laurie and I picked up my animals from her as a "middleman" meaning the importer legally can claim he's not at fault. I can't call and complain. All I can do is make sure others are aware of this and to not drop thousands of dollars on this guy's business model.

So Laurie is the one dealing with it. If it doesn't make it right with Laurie and Bill then others will hear about it. Most likely on the BOI. Here on these forums this thread and discussion is just a lesson being taught to the many experienced keepers and those new ones looking for info here.

 

[Motherlode Chameleon]

Here is the real real short version of the law: The person who made the purchase is the only person who can call and complain about it or do more than call and complain if it goes on to become a legal issue. Anybody else has no claim to doing anything. Seriously since the animals were "sold" to Laurie and I picked up my animals from her as a "middleman" meaning the importer legally can claim he's not at fault. I can't call and complain. All I can do is make sure others are aware of this and to not drop thousands of dollars on this guy's business model.

So Laurie is the one dealing with it. If it doesn't make it right with Laurie and Bill then others will hear about it. Most likely on the BOI. Here on these forums this thread and discussion is just a lesson being taught to the many experienced keepers and those new ones looking for info here.

I have had ups and downs with this retailer. However we are a community on this Forums and I read your pain and of lately this retailer has attempted to make amends with me. I have got my fingers crossed for you. If your group is to far gone so be it. I prefer not to think that way.

Best Regards
Jeremy A. Rich

 

[laurie]

I am working with the importer, who is aware that I and the group, are much less than happy. We will see if we are able to come to an agreement. I will let you all know soon.

 

[jajeanpierre]

I am working with the importer, who is aware that I and the group, are much less that happy. We will see if we are able to come to an agreement. I will let you all know soon.

I really hope this is all sorted out.

Does anyone remember the picture I sent in of the Quad I was to be getting being held by a very young man? That's the owner/importer. He's just a young kid.

I've been in his store several times. The enclosures are immaculate. Lots and lots and lots of foliage filling the enclosures right up to the top.

We don't know what agreements he had with other retailers.

You on the forum didn't see this young kid getting all excited showing me his big Meller's wild caught that he imported in June. You didn't see that big WC boy, always watching him and scrambling at the door when he passed the enclosure or snapping the biggest, fattest cockroach out of his hands. You didn't hear him gently guiding me towards another Mellers when I told him I thought that big male was such a special, unique creature and said how much I would love to own him. Then I realized he would never sell him to me or anyone because HE thought the animal was so wonderful. I asked him point blank--you won't sell him to me will you? Nope, he's staying in the store or going home with him.

That's the importer I dealt with.

I see a lot of good with this importer. Maybe he doesn't understand some of the long-term fall out from some of his business decisions. At the same time, the superior specimen I bought was in the store unsold when he shipped inferior animals to Laurie's group.

 

[Mike Fisher]

I really hope this is all sorted out.

Does anyone remember the picture I sent in of the Quad I was to be getting being held by a very young man? That's the owner/importer. He's just a young kid.

I talked to him last night. He's always done right by me.

 

[GCash]

I talked to him last night. He's always done right by me.

I as well. He's treated me as well as could be expected. From what I was told, he originally put the initial deposit down for this shipment back in 2011 with additional ones since and just now got them in. So, he has taken risks also and had funds tied up for a while pulling this together and I do appreciate that the prices weren't jacked up astronomically. I still feel like everyone would be in better standing if the exporter had done a better job. That's where I see the root of the problem being. Always have. That's the first and worst mar on the face of chameleon keeping IMO.