Teaching your Chameleon to STAY - Part 2

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I find your humor sickening and your need to use these animals as props to feed your own ego on camera even more sickening.

The fact that you would go out of your way to stress them out, grabbing them on the back, and intentionally getting them riled up as a way to produce some silly video that 15 year old boys would get a kick out of is the very opposite of what this website is all about.

But then again, that's just my opinion and you asked,

Really.....
 
Saldarya said:
I find your humor sickening and your need to use these animals as props to feed your own ego on camera even more sickening.

The fact that you would go out of your way to stress them out, grabbing them on the back, and intentionally getting them riled up as a way to produce some silly video that 15 year old boys would get a kick out of is the very opposite of what this website is all about.

But then again, that's just my opinion and you asked,

Really.....
Click to expand...

Should a chameleon's life be entirely stress free?

I say no.

My larger chameleons are all free rangers. They have their particular patrol areas, know where the best hunting is, where the fountains are and yes, occasionally encounter one another.

This causes them some stress, they all have fight or flight responses available to them.

I am certain that my chameleons are smarter and more adaptable than your chameleons because of their wide ranges of life experiences.

All of my chameleon keeper friends tell me how healthy my animals are and it's because occasionally they get a little stressed but always have a way to remove themselves from whatever is causing them stress (flight response).

The only time one cham ever inflicted injury to another cham of mine is between a male and female of the same species.

You know what is sick? People who keep their large chams in cages, that's what's sick. That's the worst stress of all and the chams can't do anything about it and die. They can't decide on what temperature they want to bask in, where they want to explore and what to do if they encounter another cham.

I bet you love to keep your chameleons in cages and away from each other, right?
 
I don't want to get into a heated argument but I kind of have to side with saldarya. I understand that a little but of stress is perfectly normal but how is it essential? In that. In the. In the video, you were practically man handling Osama and I'm sure if I were him I wouldn't have been pleased to have my back grabbed and my face taunted by your hand. Also, purposely putting two species together is ridiculous and saying its adaptable is too. I always thought the best way to care for animals like chameleons is doing what you can to re create their habitat. By that logic, how would a chameleon from the Middle East see one in Madagascar. Chams in cages isn't the worst stress of all, most people on here offer huge free ranges and carefully handle them. The worst stress is over handling them and grasping them like their nothing. Lastly, it perfectly fine and probably the better to keep your chameleons away from each other because naturally, the SAME species won't come in contact to often.

I don't want to start a controversy but the way you were treating them I just found somewhat in-humane.
 
qdude46 said:
I don't want to get into a heated argument but I kind of have to side with saldarya. I understand that a little but of stress is perfectly normal but how is it essential? In that. In the. In the video, you were practically man handling Osama and I'm sure if I were him I wouldn't have been pleased to have my back grabbed and my face taunted by your hand. Also, purposely putting two species together is ridiculous and saying its adaptable is too. I always thought the best way to care for animals like chameleons is doing what you can to re create their habitat. By that logic, how would a chameleon from the Middle East see one in Madagascar. Chams in cages isn't the worst stress of all, most people on here offer huge free ranges and carefully handle them. The worst stress is over handling them and grasping them like their nothing. Lastly, it perfectly fine and probably the better to keep your chameleons away from each other because naturally, the SAME species won't come in contact to often.
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qdude46 said:
I don't want to start a controversy but the way you were treating them I just found somewhat in-humane.
Click to expand...

Oh, come on. I can agree with you on handling them from above as a predator would but that's where it ends.

Chameleons are all little drama queens, males, females, from Madagascar or the Arabian Peninsula. They live to get pissed off about something, anything.

My large chams get handled about once a week for a few minutes while I clean their free range environments. They have territories that they themselves have decided on and defend. They tolerate certain other chams and do not tolerate certain other ones. My big girl Melissa Meller (see image attached) has no problem with Ziggy Panther even coming over and drinking out of her personal fountain but if Osama bin Allen (Veiled) is in sight she quickly gets stressed out and hides until he goes away.

Now compare that to Melvin Meller who never displays any signs of stress no matter who else comes into his territory. Both Mellers, both displaying different stress personalities. A cage would not allow this.

Now even add that to the fact that I work from home and the free range chams see me all day working on the computer and display some interesting behaviors.

1. As soon as I turn on my computer all the free rangers go to their usual basking spots so I'll turn on their heat lamps or open their windows so they can get some direct sun and catch a breeze.

2. My guys are very picky eaters and if they don't see what they want in their personal buckets they will come down from their perches and actually approach me on a branch and stay about a foot away from me until I give them a Dubia or a Hornworm.

You can keep all the nonsense about a perfectly stress free life benefiting your chameleons.

I challenge anyone on the overall health and longevity of my 14 chams of 6 different species.



 

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Brian,

I would make the suggestion that you would promote your views better by not being so defensive, and coming across as arrogant.

If you want to make your viewpoint understood, whatever it is, you would accomplish your goal by a calmer, educational approach, rather than an attacking, rude approach.

We all have opinions, but how we express them, is more heard than the opinions themselves. I have not looked at this video, I have just read the posts, so whatever you did on the video does not affect my advise to you.

Why ya gotta be so mean?:confused:

Nick
 
ChamAllen said:
Should a chameleon's life be entirely stress free?

I say no.

My larger chameleons are all free rangers. They have their particular patrol areas, know where the best hunting is, where the fountains are and yes, occasionally encounter one another.

This causes them some stress, they all have fight or flight responses available to them.

I am certain that my chameleons are smarter and more adaptable than your chameleons because of their wide ranges of life experiences.

All of my chameleon keeper friends tell me how healthy my animals are and it's because occasionally they get a little stressed but always have a way to remove themselves from whatever is causing them stress (flight response).

The only time one cham ever inflicted injury to another cham of mine is between a male and female of the same species.

You know what is sick? People who keep their large chams in cages, that's what's sick. That's the worst stress of all and the chams can't do anything about it and die. They can't decide on what temperature they want to bask in, where they want to explore and what to do if they encounter another cham.

I bet you love to keep your chameleons in cages and away from each other, right?
Click to expand...

Nothing in my comments had anything to do with how you keep your chams or whether or not they are healthy. nor was it to disparage your thesis that a lil stress is good for them as they come in contact with each other. I would agree that there MAY be some merit there. My point was, and remains, you intentionally put them in stressful situations, and manhandled the veil only to put on a little bit of theatre for some silly youtube video.

Your purpose in this instance was not to provide them stimuli, it was to have some fun, which can be seen the way yo get a kick out of the fact that the veiled is so pissed in the video he strikes at you.

So to be clear, my issue is not HOW you keep them, or the fact that you allow them to interact, but that you did ALL of this, for a silly little sophomoric video.

Aside from that, rather than deal with that concern, you then go towards attack me and my husbandry, which you have absolutely not knowledge of. That my friend is called deflection.
 
I am sure chamallen knows what he is doing, by the looks of his chameleons he has more than enough knowledge to know how his chams react to each other.
 
yadadadadada thats all i hear from you, there is two types of stress,

Stress they receive on there own and stress that is out side of what they can do.

What you do is inflict unnecessary stress for no other reason but to make a video to get like and hits.

Yes I keep my cham in a viv, i don't have a choice, two cats in my house would soon make a meal of him.

Let me put you in a forced stress environment and see how you feel.
 
ChamAllen said:
Professional Animal Trainer Series - Teaching Your Chameleon to STAY

Happy Holidays everyone,

Please watch my video and rate it on Youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onnBMeSOP2U&feature=youtu.be

What do you think of the idea of getting Osama a top hat and cane and taking him to Broadway?

Your thoughts?.
Click to expand...

I laughed when you said "I love how you say he is a professional terrorist", great name for him :P My female veiled chameleon isn't too friendly either.
 
ChamAllen said:
Should a chameleon's life be entirely stress free?

I say no.

My larger chameleons are all free rangers. They have their particular patrol areas, know where the best hunting is, where the fountains are and yes, occasionally encounter one another.

This causes them some stress, they all have fight or flight responses available to them.

I am certain that my chameleons are smarter and more adaptable than your chameleons because of their wide ranges of life experiences.

All of my chameleon keeper friends tell me how healthy my animals are and it's because occasionally they get a little stressed but always have a way to remove themselves from whatever is causing them stress (flight response).

The only time one cham ever inflicted injury to another cham of mine is between a male and female of the same species.

You know what is sick? People who keep their large chams in cages, that's what's sick. That's the worst stress of all and the chams can't do anything about it and die. They can't decide on what temperature they want to bask in, where they want to explore and what to do if they encounter another cham.

I bet you love to keep your chameleons in cages and away from each other, right?
Click to expand...

I'm siding with Saldarya on this one. From the few posts I've seen from you, it seems like it's for sh*ts and giggles. This forum is to educate people on proper husbandry of Chameleons, which in your video looked as if your Chameleons were in fine health, but what we try to educate is that the least amount of stress for these animals will ensure them longer healthier lives.

Now, getting to the point, your attack towards his husbandry was completely uncalled for. I'm not trying to attack you in any way shape or form, I'm just going by what I'm reading and see from your foolish video. And yes, it's just that being foolish to get a rise out of these incredible animals stress that is caused due to your ignorance. You don't know how he cares for his animals, and from what I've seen of him post, his care is phenomenal so your argument towards him about his care is completely uncalled for.

When an animal or human is put into a stressful situation it's nothing but bad news. They should be respected properly and not be man handled as you have done. I would think a grown man like yourself would understand that. These animals aren't here to be put in situations like that, and honestly when you say that they should have some stress in their life and they will occasionally encounter one another, that is bound to happen. In the wild a Veiled Chameleon wouldn't encounter a Meller's Chameleon, nor a Panther Chameleon for that matter.

However, with you posting something like this, don't expect to be praised for this kind of behavior. We are here to educate and make sure that the proper care is distributed. A newcomer may see this and try it on their own, only to encounter bad things and wonder why it happened, especially when it came from a reputable forum.
 
I dont know what's the point of making you chameleon stay in 1 spot? :S Not neccesary to stress your chameleons like that.

Why dont you buy a cat or a dog and make him stay?
 
In the summer when I got my first chameleon, every piece of good information I received was from this forum. This website and the amazing kind-hearted people who make it possible actually saved my chameleon's life - when 2 vets couldn't. In saying that, I know personally that newbies rely heavily on this website for proper information. Some of the proper information that can be found repeatedly throughout this site is about proper handling, and the stress that can be caused. It should be kept to a minimum, and should not be done in a way that causes stress. A quick google search for "stress in chameleons" will display nothing but articles about the negative effects and illnesses that chameleons will experience under stress - many of them are life threatening.

I would also like to combat the idea of keeping chameleons in cages opposed to free range. Many people, like myself, spend thousands trying to ensure the proper habitat for their beloved pets. This website has a tonne of information that covers temperature range, ventilation, space, foliage, and everything all species of chameleons need to be properly housed. Free range is great, but most, especially those with other pet species, know the benefit of proper enclosures.
 
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