Swollen neck

[nhoj6465]

When I checked on my cham this morning her left side of her neck between her jaw bone and shoulder was a lil swollen. I have no idea what is wrong. I did see her eat 2 crkts but usually she would go right after them but today she seemed not so excited to see them crawling around. She hasn't drank anything n about a wk but I did give her a couple of drops of water yesterday while she had her mouth open while she was pissed. I am not sure if I am just trippin or if maybe I am doing something wrong. PLEASE correct me if I am wrong. I just want to catch whatever it is early b4 it turns into something big. Thanks!! Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon -7 mth ambilobe female have had her since March.
Handling -Once a day
Feeding -I am feeding crkts, wax wrms, silkies every now & then. In morning 5 crkts in mid afternoon 5 more crkts and a couple of wax. I gutload crkts w/catfood. then silkies have mulberry chow and I don't feed the wax worms. Do the need gut load?
Supplements -Rep-Cal Calcium, Calcium w/d3 and Herptivite. 5xwk calcuim/calcium W/D3 2xmth/ Herptivite 2xmth. Watering -Moto mister. I mist 5xday for about 2 mins. I haven't seen her drink n about a wk. But I did drop a couple of drops of water n her mouth while she had it open being pissed off yesterday.
Fecal Description -Brn formed but urates r a orangish color. She poops 1xday. Yes she was tested and came back neg. History -Um this just happened overnight. Yesterday she looked normal. She is n heat or whatever they call it. She's a peach color and has purple spots all over. right now she is roaming her cage more than usual. I do have a male but they have not been bred yet. It seems that the swelling is between her jaw bone and her shoulder bone and it is only on the left side.

Cage Info:
Cage Type -Screen enclosure. 24x24x48 Lighting -I got a hanging garage light fixture 4 the 48" UVB strip lite bulb. Reptisun 5.0 UVB 100 watt heat bulb which is 10 inches away from her basking spot. Lights on @ 8am off 8pm
Temperature -Ambient is 74 middle closer 2 top it's 77 and @ basking spot it's 82. Overnight it gets about 73. Digital thermometer and the meters stay n the cage.
Humidity -60% after misting 80%.
Plants - All of it is artificial.
Placement -Located n living room nxt 2 computer desk. At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor? 6 ft from floor.
Location - Louisville Kentucky

 

[ColorCham427]

gutloading crickets with cat food is a huge NO NO. (can and will enventually cause gout) painful experience for your chameleon.

how much supplementation is being used? what color are the feeders after you dust them? white?

I use repcal with vitamin d3 more than twice a month, but i raise my chams indoors.

you should mist for longer periods, or use a dripper for a very long period.

some chameleons dont drink infront of people, and most importantly most chameleons take a few minutes to get stimulated by watching the water move in order to go after it and drink.

you shouldn't feed your chameleon in the afternoon.

at night, try to get the temp. down a little more, 68 is good.

your chameleon most likely has gugular edema. post pix asap.

search on this forum about gutloading.

 

[kinyonga]

Can you post some pictures of her from both sides so we can see the difference in the neck please?

I gutload/feed crickets, superworms, etc. with a wide assortment of greens (dandelions, kale, endive, collards, escarole, parsley, etc.) and veggies (carrots, squash, sweet potato, sweet red pepper, zucchini, celery leaves, etc.).

 

[nhoj6465]

View attachment 24416

gutloading crickets with cat food is a huge NO NO. (can and will enventually cause gout) painful experience for your chameleon.

how much supplementation is being used? what color are the feeders after you dust them? white?

I use repcal with vitamin d3 more than twice a month, but i raise my chams indoors.

you should mist for longer periods, or use a dripper for a very long period.

some chameleons dont drink infront of people, and most importantly most chameleons take a few minutes to get stimulated by watching the water move in order to go after it and drink.

you shouldn't feed your chameleon in the afternoon.

at night, try to get the temp. down a little more, 68 is good.

your chameleon most likely has gugular edema. post pix asap.

search on this forum about gutloading.

I dust the crickets everyday with calcium then twice a month with multivitamin and twice a month with calcium/D3. When i dust them I blow them off so they won't be so dusty. I can still see the color of the cricket. I do raise them indoors and I get them outside 2 to 3 times a wk. Here r some pics hope they help. Please help I am starting to get very worried it looks a lil bigger then earlier and she has been roaming all day. I did see her eat 2 crickets today so that is a good thing. Ok so I have before and after pics here. The pics of Pechu without the peach color was just 2 days ago.

 

[kinyonga]

If the pictures you posted in another thread a couple of days ago were recent then this has gotten very bad very quickly and I would get her to a vet.

 

[nhoj6465]

So does anyone know the causes of edema or what it affects or what the treatment options r or even where I could go and get some info? I am hopefully going to take her to the vet tomarrow. Is this a life threatening condition should I be worried?

 

[kinyonga]

From my experience, edema would be even on both sides of the neck. You will need a vet to tell you what's going on.

Edema is sometimes due to improper supplementation...sometimes it can be due to organ failure. I'm sure there are other reasons too.

 

[sarah777]

Do you dust all the crickets she gets? If so she's getting too much. I usually only dust one cricket. I had a Veiled with this and stopped all supplements for a couple of days and lowered my dustings to only one cricket and he was fine. Although you could see his was swollen on both sides, so I don't know it's the same thing. I also only dust with a multi vit once a month and D3 once a month.

 

[Elizadolots]

Well...I suspect she's dehydrated because you say " urates r a orangish color". So, yes...mist more. Get that cage "raining" at least a couple of times a day (everything should be dripping) and keep a dripper going for "in between times".

You say you think she's "in heat" but don't mention whether you have a laying bin in for her. She doesn't need a male to produce eggs (she just needs a male to produce fertile eggs). I think any female from an egg bearing species should have an egg laying bin at all times...that's how she's going to alert you to her problem: go down and start digging around. You do say she's roaming so that makes me think the bin is really important.

There are guidelines in various posts....and the experts here will give you better advice than I'm about to, but from what I recall you need a bin that has 12 inches deep play sand (you can get this at places like Wal Mart, it's in the gardening department) and is bigger than the chameleon in length and breadth. The sand should be moist all the way through, moist meaning you can dig a 1 inch wide tunnel with your finger and get your whole finger in it without it collapsing.

If you see her start digging around the bin, you need to give her some privacy so she can do her thing without feeling like a predator is waiting to grab the eggs.

 

[nhoj6465]

Do you dust all the crickets she gets? If so she's getting too much. I usually only dust one cricket. I had a Veiled with this and stopped all supplements for a couple of days and lowered my dusting's to only one cricket and he was fine. Although you could see his was swollen on both sides, so I don't know it's the same thing. I also only dust with a multi vit once a month and D3 once a month.

I have been using supplements every time I feed, and the dust is on all of the crickets or worms I am afraid that I have been overdosing her. So do I just feed her 1 dusted cricket or whatever once a day or every other day? Can someone please inform me of a good supplement regimen!!

 

[nhoj6465]

Well...I suspect she's dehydrated because you say " urates r a orangish color". So, yes...mist more. Get that cage "raining" at least a couple of times a day (everything should be dripping) and keep a dripper going for "in between times".

You say you think she's "in heat" but don't mention whether you have a laying bin in for her. She doesn't need a male to produce eggs (she just needs a male to produce fertile eggs). I think any female from an egg bearing species should have an egg laying bin at all times...that's how she's going to alert you to her problem: go down and start digging around. You do say she's roaming so that makes me think the bin is really important.

There are guidelines in various posts....and the experts here will give you better advice than I'm about to, but from what I recall you need a bin that has 12 inches deep play sand (you can get this at places like Wal Mart, it's in the gardening department) and is bigger than the chameleon in length and breadth. The sand should be moist all the way through, moist meaning you can dig a 1 inch wide tunnel with your finger and get your whole finger in it without it collapsing.

If you see her start digging around the bin, you need to give her some privacy so she can do her thing without feeling like a predator is waiting to grab the eggs.

I am going to fix her up a bin tomarrow because she is still roaming and I didn't see her eat today but I did put a couple of drops of water in her mouth today about 3 times. The swelling n her neck doesn't look like it did yesterday.

 

[kinyonga]

I don't think calcium is the normal culprit for causing edema...I have tried to find a paper that indicates that calcium plays a part in edema in chameleons, but I can't find it...however there is lots that supports vitamin A and D play a part.

That being said...if you have only been giving your chameleon the D3 twice a month and using Herptivite as the vitamin IMHO it doesn't seem like you have been overdoing either...unless you are feeding the insects things that contain a lot of D3 and prEformed vitamin A.

Also...it still bothers me that the edema came up so quickly and is uneven.
I would take it to the vet.

Here's what I found about edema...
"Organ toxicity associated with fat soluble vitamins A and D is suspected to be a common nutrition-related problem of chameleons. Excess vitamin A supplementation may lead to to hepatic and/or renal toxicity. Gular edema is suspected to be a common clinical sign of such organ dysfunction in chameleons...
http://wvc.omnibooksonline.com/data/papers/2006_V411.pdf

"Gular edema is a common clinical sign of organ dysfunction in chameleons"...
http://www.ivis.org/proceedings/navc/2006/SAE/603.pdf?LA=1

"Excessive vitamin A supplementation may result in organ toxicity (kidney and liver) some times causing gular edema and reproductive problems such as sterility"...and "Excessive vitamin D3 supplementation can result in organ toxicity (gular edema) metastatic calcification, gout, and pseudo-gout (calcium-like deposit)"...
http://www.allcreaturesvetcare.com/lizard_chameleon.php

Here's a good article about supplements...
http://www.chameleonnews.com/07FebWheelock.html

 

[sarah777]

"Quote" That being said...if you have only been giving your chameleon the D3 twice a month and using Herptivite as the vitamin IMHO it doesn't seem like you have been overdoing either...unless you are feeding the insects things that contain a lot of D3 and prEformed vitamin A.

But she has been dusting all the crickets, so in that sense it would be overdoing it.

 

[kinyonga]

I dust all my crickets lightly every time I use supplements and it hasn't seemed to be a problem.

 

[sarah777]

Oh, interesting. I only lightly dust 1 or 2. I guess I may be wrong in doing this.

 

[kinyonga]

There is no one definite way to supplement....its just important to get a balance. I feel that what I do works because my chameleons live long healthy lives as a rule...and I think that's what we're after!

 

[sarah777]

Very true!

 

[Warrix642]

I believe most people lightly dust every cricket most feedings. I like to do 2-3 days a week of no dust myself but everyone does it differently.

Dustin

 

[nhoj6465]

I don't think calcium is the normal culprit for causing edema...I have tried to find a paper that indicates that calcium plays a part in edema in chameleons, but I can't find it...however there is lots that supports vitamin A and D play a part.

That being said...if you have only been giving your chameleon the D3 twice a month and using Herptivite as the vitamin IMHO it doesn't seem like you have been overdoing either...unless you are feeding the insects things that contain a lot of D3 and prEformed vitamin A.

Also...it still bothers me that the edema came up so quickly and is uneven.
I would take it to the vet.

Here's what I found about edema...
"Organ toxicity associated with fat soluble vitamins A and D is suspected to be a common nutrition-related problem of chameleons. Excess vitamin A supplementation may lead to to hepatic and/or renal toxicity. Gular edema is suspected to be a common clinical sign of such organ dysfunction in chameleons...
http://wvc.omnibooksonline.com/data/papers/2006_V411.pdf

"Gular edema is a common clinical sign of organ dysfunction in chameleons"...
http://www.ivis.org/proceedings/navc/2006/SAE/603.pdf?LA=1

"Excessive vitamin A supplementation may result in organ toxicity (kidney and liver) some times causing gular edema and reproductive problems such as sterility"...and "Excessive vitamin D3 supplementation can result in organ toxicity (gular edema) metastatic calcification, gout, and pseudo-gout (calcium-like deposit)"...
http://www.allcreaturesvetcare.com/lizard_chameleon.php

Here's a good article about supplements...
http://www.chameleonnews.com/07FebWheelock.html

Wow u all r awesome thanks 4 the info and I will keep u updated. She seems to be doin better now the swelling has gone down almost totally . I will keep an eye on her over the nxt couple days. I am fixing her a layin bin because I think she has eggs she has been roaming like crazy. I bought play sand and vermiculite. Does anyone know how I should mix this?

 

[Texas Panther Man]

As Colorcham427 stated quit feeding your crix with catfood. Thats probably a big part of the neck issue. I would still get a panel done on her though even if the swelling went down. You need to research gutloading and either buy or make your own dry gutload and start using fruits and veggies for the wet gutload.