Supplementation/MBD 1

gooslapa

New Member
Sources- I highly encourage everyone to do their own research. This is merely a summary of facts that can be found through many sources. I paraphrased many of these sections from:
Reptile Medicine and Surgery, Mader
North American Veterinary Conference Procedings 2007
Speakers- Dr. Mader
Dr. Mark Mitchell- LSU
Dr. Fleming- Disney’s Animal Programs
Dr Pare- Toronto Zoo
My personal notes from veterinary school
Endocronology and Reproduction- Feldman and Nelson 3rd edition

I know that someone will ask what I am doing for my chams. So here it is. I have no real reason for this protocol other than it is similar to that used by some successful cham breeders.

I change my UVB lighting every 6 months. (probably unnecessary)
Gut-load with WER carrots, romaine, and orange
Juviniles Calcium w/o D3 twice a week
Multivitamin twice a week
Adults- Calcium w/o D3 once a week
Multivitamin once a month
Females (gravid) –Calcium w/o D3 twice a week
Multivitamin once to twice a week

I WOULD LOVE ANY AND ALL FEEDBACK.

WHAT are WER carrots??
 

MWheelock

Veterinarian
Clarification

There should be a comma between the two.
WER was a cricket dry food mix- I'm not sure if it is on the market anymore.
Zoo-Med dry cricket food is fine
 

Sheldon Cooper

New Member
Calcium

Forgive my newbie comment/question, but why do I need a calcium supplement if Herptivite has Calcium listed on the side of the container? I thought that meant it has Ca in it. I've been dusting my cham's crickets with that ever since I got him in December & he's doing okay, growing and happy. I'd like to provide him with better food, so I'm picking up a new batch of crickets tomorrow at Petco & will get a Ca & Ca+Vit D3 supplements as well, I just need to know exactly why. I'm also trying to get him to eat some veggies from a feeder cup, today was the 1st day I put them out for him, sprinkled with mealworms to get his attention. As far as water-soluble supplements go I'm a little hesitant, he doesn't seem too keen on drinking immediately when sprayed & then the drops dry up within 30-60 minutes.
 

KillaNCham

New Member
Max-a-Meleon's dusting schedule now.

Here is my dusting schedule, i feel like i keep changing it because everyone does something different!! SO different.

I have had my veiled since he was 6 weeks old. He has been in my care for exactly a month. breeder's suggestion was Calcium every day and multivitamin with D3 3 times a week until 3 months old.

Now here is what I do:
Calcium (no phosphorus) 5 days a week on ALL feeders.
Gut load with Repashy superload, apple, carrots, greens.
Multivitamin Fridays with Reptivite containing D3 and Calcium

I am trying to find a happy medium here.
Breeder suggestion:Calcium every day and multivitamin with D3 3 times a week until 3 months old.
Other suggestions have been all over the place!

Suggestions?
 

adambentz

New Member
Wow!! Thank you for posting such I depth information.

I'm a new to the forum and a new chameleon owner. I was recently turned on to this gut loading research by my Exotic Animal Vet, who Specializes in avian and reptile care. She instructed me to stop dusting all together and only use this product as a source of vitamins and Calcium for feeders... I am skeptical and would love to hear your thoughts.

http://www.timberlinefisheries.com/v/vspfiles/assets/images/finke et al_2005_evaluation of four dry commercial gut loading products for improving the calcium content of crickets.pdf
 

MWheelock

Veterinarian
Calcium

Hey,
Briefly took a look at the article you cited.
Enough calcium in the gut load is not necessarily the issue. The issue is whether the calcium the chameleon is getting is absorbed.

If your cham is getting the right amount of UV light and a good diet, it does not need supplementation.
The real question is whether your cham is actually getting the UV light or enough calcium in the diet.

A lot of us, still use Calcium w/ D3 on a regular basis (less frequently when they are older and bone growth is not so fast.) My chameleon's don't see the outside, so I give the powder once every few weeks just in case they are not getting enough UVB to convert to D3 so as to absorb calcium. I'm also hoping if they got too much dusting, the body doesn't make it's own D3 (negative feedback loop) to compensate.

So, I'm hedging my bets. Hopefully not too little, but not too much.

Good luck,
Matthew
 

adambentz

New Member
Thank you!! Really appreciate the info.

I am curious about one thing, I am able to bring my panther out to bask in late spring and summer. I am unable to do so the rest of the year
would you be adding D3 during those months he does not have natural light?

Also I if you wouldn't mind explaining why phosphorus is taken out if the powders used for natural sunlight I would be very great full.

Thanks so much!

Adam
 

Gawace

New Member
hello dr.Mathew i got a simple question for you if u don't mind, would the lactate calcium, bought from the store, like lactate calcium for humans, harm my cham or is it ok for it? i got lactate calcium pills and smashed them till they turned into powder. Thank you and i'll wait your reply.
 

MsCham

New Member
What an amazing source of information! I will be printing this off, highlighting it and taping it next to my Veiled's set up for reference! Thank you very much!

I was wondering if you might be willing to debunk or confirm something I found in my own research. There are certain people who believe UVA light is also needed. As I've found so clearly from these forums, not all information one hears is true, especially surrounding the needs of reptiles, so if you wouldn't mind giving me your opinion on the need of UVA lighting for chameleons? Of course it would be in addition to the needed UVB lighting as well.

When setting up for my cham before I got him, (he's my first) I was told in the pet store that I needed UVA as well, so I got it... Now I'm wondering if that was merely an up-sell of what I didn't need... But he does spend a fair amount of time near it. I should clarify that this means my set up has three lamps: a 50W basking, 75W UVB, and a 75W UVA. Curious to hear your thoughts on the matter!

Thank you for all the info!
 

MWheelock

Veterinarian
Lighting

I don't know what brand you bought in Canada.
Usually long fluoro UVB tubes and mercury vapor are full spectrum that have both UVA and UVB in them.

I like the Reptisun 5-0 for veiled. (I wouldn't go higher than a 10-0)

Hope that helps
 

sapphira80

New Member
Just wanted to say thank you for writing all this up. I have found so little actual scientific information about chameleons (or reptiles in general). It drives me crazy because as a nurse, I'm used to specific information and parameters. I'm printing this out to go in my chameleon binder. Thanks again!
 

CraftingDreams

New Member
We are bringing home a 18 week old Jacksons Chameleon, and I thought I read where they are a bit different.. I am trying to understand how I need to give him his vitamins and calcium to keep him healthy... (bringing him out of a pet store that is keeping him in a tank with a combo uvb light, that is only 12 inches from the bottom of the tank)..

What are the best supplements for him, and how often should they be given. Like the lighting, it confuses me a bit.. :(
 

pgr7

Avid Member
For jacksons:
Calcium without D3 X2 weekly
Multivitamin x1 monthly
Calcium WITH D3 x1 monthly
 

CraftingDreams

New Member
Thank you so much.. I have a Repti Calcium with D3, just need to pick up the other two then.

Oh and going to pick up some of this plastic stuff that I can heat and mold to see if I can reconstruct the pan I was wanting to do.. going to cross my fingers.. for now, Ill use a garden pan under the cage and lift it up with 4 half bricks inside.. :)

Almost forgot.. what about phoenix worms.. I feed them to my bearded.. are they ok to also feed to Stan Lee?
 

pgr7

Avid Member
Thank you so much.. I have a Repti Calcium with D3, just need to pick up the other two then.

Oh and going to pick up some of this plastic stuff that I can heat and mold to see if I can reconstruct the pan I was wanting to do.. going to cross my fingers.. for now, Ill use a garden pan under the cage and lift it up with 4 half bricks inside.. :)

Almost forgot.. what about phoenix worms.. I feed them to my bearded.. are they ok to also feed to Stan Lee?
Absolutely, I feed them every other day to my jacksons chameleon.
 
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