Sign of MBD or typical baby behavior?

[ERKleRose]

Waterfall does have a water filter and water is changed out frequently to avoid bacteria buildup. The other watering devices I was using off of amazon kept having the pumps burn out and it was honestly a fire hazard.

Now if you have a recommendation for something better or different or if you can advise why this one I have now wouldn't work, maybe it'd give me more reason to switch it out with whatever you may recommend, but I can't see bacteria buildup being an issue with regular cleaning. Both chameleons I've seen drink from them.

Is the filter biological, mechanical, chemical, or all of those? Do you properly and thoroughly clean out the water fall multiple times a day? The risk isn't worth it! Use a dripper instead for constant water, and either hand mist and/or get an automatic mister for the normal waterings (at least two times a day, preferably around lights on and lights off, for a minimum of 2-5+ minutes long each time). Using a cool-mist humidifier during the coldest parts of the night (only when it's 65*F or lower) helps, too. If you get a cool-mist humidifier, replace the crinkly tubing with vinyl tubing or PVC pipe and thoroughly clean it and all tubes and any other accessories used a minimum of once a week. Bill Strand has a great hydration schedule! Here's the link for it: https://chameleonacademy.com/basics-hydration-for-chameleons/

 

[ConfusedHornwormGuy]

Ive heard things of the little dripper and I suppose it's a viable option, but isn't bacteria buildup just as likely in water stagnating next to your heat lamps? It really doesn't seem like it's free of the issues that any other water fountain suffers. Even the ones you buy off of anazon with the leaves for them to drink off of, get regular bacteria buildup and must also be cleaned frequently and leaves replaced. I think the lesson to keep in mind here is to keep your chameleons water sources clean to make sure they don't get some sort of resporatory infection. But again I'm not opposed to switching out these fountains but I do really like them, my chameleons seem to as well, plus my wife and I do enjoy the sounds as well. In lieu of that still willing to switch them out if they are really going to pose so much danger.

 

[ConfusedHornwormGuy]

I'll replace the tubing on my humidifer, good suggestion. I hate the crinkly tubes anyway.

 

[ERKleRose]

Ive heard things of the little dripper and I suppose it's a viable option, but isn't bacteria buildup just as likely in water stagnating next to your heat lamps? It really doesn't seem like it's free of the issues that any other water fountain suffers. Even the ones you buy off of anazon with the leaves for them to drink off of, get regular bacteria buildup and must also be cleaned frequently and leaves replaced. I think the lesson to keep in mind here is to keep your chameleons water sources clean to make sure they don't get some sort of resporatory infection. But again I'm not opposed to switching out these fountains but I do really like them, my chameleons seem to as well, plus my wife and I do enjoy the sounds as well. In lieu of that still willing to switch them out if they are really going to pose so much danger.

How often and what do you clean your waterfall with?

 

[ConfusedHornwormGuy]

And I'll pick up a little dripper for each of them. I hate them but I suppose it's best. Where do you recommend I have the tube for the dripper placed in the enclosure? Higher? Lower? Should it be 45 degrees from the branch so they can tilt their head upward?

 

[ConfusedHornwormGuy]

Waterfall cleaned once so far, just got them a week ago, used isopropyl alcohol and rinsed with warm water. Not sure of the composition of the filter, just looks like a standard wider grain aquarium sponge. Probably best to swap them out if daily cleaning is required.

 

[ERKleRose]

And I'll pick up a little dripper for each of them. I hate them but I suppose it's best. Where do you recommend I have the tube for the dripper placed in the enclosure? Higher? Lower? Should it be 45 degrees from the branch so they can tilt their head upward?

I put my drippers on the opposite side of the cages from my heat bulbs, and they're covered to not get any debris in, which helps with cleaning them. You want the dripper on top of or hanging/secured above the cage with it dripping over plant leaves that are high in the cage

Waterfall cleaned once so far, just got them a week ago, used isopropyl alcohol and rinsed with warm water. Not sure of the composition of the filter, just looks like a standard wider grain aquarium sponge. Probably best to swap them out if daily cleaning is required.

They need to be cleaned at least twice (or more) a day with something that kills everything, like F10 SC. You'll also need a really good filter (better than the one it came with) for it to work out, too. You can always put the waterfall somewhere else in your house for you and your wife to enjoy the sounds and ambiance without having to worry about it in the chameleon cage!

 

[chamoflage]

I angle my dripper so it falls on lots of the leaves from the ficus and cascade down so she can drink water off the leaves, and angled away from the heat lamps. Although I have only seen my chameleon drink the dew off the top of her screen that's left over from her night time fogging.

 

[ConfusedHornwormGuy]

Agreed. Will be moving the fountains elsewhere and ordering drippers. They've only been in their cages for a short time so I'm sure they'll survive. Most of them drink from the drops that collect on their mesh from the humidifier anyway.

 

[ConfusedHornwormGuy]

I angle my dripper so it falls on lots of the leaves from the ficus and cascade down so she can drink water off the leaves, and angled away from the heat lamps. Although I have only seen my chameleon drink the dew off the top of her screen that's left over from her night time fogging.

I'm right there with you. Even when I had my standing reptile water fixtures with the traditional leaves and water running down them, they rarely drank from it, generally only when I had left the humidifier empty for a day. So they tend to use the standing water fixtures as an alternative source, preferring the dew from the humidifier as yours does.

 

[chamoflage]

I'm right there with you. Even when I had my standing reptile water fixtures with the traditional leaves and water running down them, they rarely drank from it, generally only when I had left the humidifier empty for a day. So they tend to use the standing water fixtures as an alternative source, preferring the dew from the humidifier as yours does.

Yeah I like having the dripper as a backup and to give her another option to drink if she chooses. She's pretty secretive and the times I caught her drinking if she saw me she gave me a mean side eye and stopped. I'm not typically home during the day so it's a nice piece of mind that there is another option for her to drink. Although I do end up getting quite a bit of excess water to drain out and have to be super mindful to empty out my drainage cup (or else it's been quite the mess on more than one occasion).

 

[Klyde O'Scope]

Ive heard things of the little dripper and I suppose it's a viable option, but isn't bacteria buildup just as likely in water stagnating next to your heat lamps? It really doesn't seem like it's free of the issues that any other water fountain suffers.

Poop, dead bugs & plant matter, and runoff don't contaminate drippers or misters.
Do you drink water from your toilet bowl, bathtub, and /or gutters?

But again I'm not opposed to switching out these fountains but I do really like them, ...., plus my wife and I do enjoy the sounds as well.

Then by all means, use a desktop waterfall/fountain for ambience outside the enclosure.

Went easy on plants for now because she is still so small and the cage is large in size comparitively so I need it to be easier for her to find food until she's large enough to properly hunt for any crickets. I plan to add more shrubbery once she gets a bit larger, plus the live money tree which I have in there will grow quite large,

That's not really a concern. Chameleons can properly hunt & find food practically from the moment they hatch.

I plan to add more flukers vines as well in the near future. As you can see my veiled has a good bit of shrubbery in there with minimal fake plants, I plan to go that route with the panther as well.

With so many live plant and vine options, why use fake at all, especially with a baby? You have more than enough time for real vines to grow with her (which I don't think is really necessary either; my panther climbs all around everything—even thin stems & twigs you wouldn't think could/would support his weight—with no problems).

Since she's a female I plan to put large rocks at the bottom of her cage with a little bit of substrate mixed in and then a lay bin with the play sand with a live plant in there for her to get in and also lay her eggs next to the roots. Hopefully that offers some clarification on my intentions for her setup, but right now I'm trying to be mindful of her age (still a baby, probably hatched like a month or two ago tops) and her size (pretty tiny).

‽‽‽ Like the fountain, I don't understand the rocks. While not a common/frequent event, chameleons can & do fall. IMO, this is inviting catastrophe.

Chameleons can survive falls surprisingly well, but it is absolutely a trauma you want to avoid. When they do this they are not checking to make sure they do not hit anything along the way. If they hit the corner of a hard surface [or a rock] this jump and fall could be fatal.
https://www.chameleonbreeder.com/podcast/ep-80-handling-your-chameleon/

 

[ConfusedHornwormGuy]

Poop, dead bugs & plant matter, and runoff don't contaminate drippers or misters.
Do you drink water from your toilet bowl, bathtub, and /or gutters?


Then by all means, use a desktop waterfall/fountain for ambience outside the enclosure.


That's not really a concern. Chameleons can properly hunt & find food practically from the moment they hatch.


With so many live plant and vine options, why use fake at all, especially with a baby? You have more than enough time for real vines to grow with her (which I don't think is really necessary either; my panther climbs all around everything—even thin stems & twigs you wouldn't think could/would support his weight—with no problems).


‽‽‽ Like the fountain, I don't understand the rocks. While not a common/frequent event, chameleons can & do fall. IMO, this is inviting catastrophe.

I figured rocks would be better than substrate. If you read the previous comments - I do plan on switching out the fountain but thank you for explaining the reasons why bacteria can build up in the fountain. I have yet to find any poop or dead bugs in there but still plan to switch them out because I know it'll happen eventually.

I suppose I'll just stick to the enclosure safe bark chips then. Thank you.

 

[ConfusedHornwormGuy]

And I'll look for more shrubbery for her.

 

[ERKleRose]

I figured rocks would be better than substrate. If you read the previous comments - I do plan on switching out the fountain but thank you for explaining the reasons why bacteria can build up in the fountain. I have yet to find any poop or dead bugs in there but still plan to switch them out because I know it'll happen eventually.

I suppose I'll just stick to the enclosure safe bark chips then. Thank you.

You want either no substrate, bare-bottom with a drainage system underneath the enclosure (not in it) and a lay bin or completely bioactive with deep enough substrate to act as a lay bin, no in-between.

 

[ConfusedHornwormGuy]

So you're saying her entire enclosure should be the lay bin? Why not just have thin substrate with a lay bin? Can't she tell the difference or will she just try to dig and lay in the thin substrate?

 

[ERKleRose]

So you're saying her entire enclosure should be the lay bin? Why not just have thin substrate with a lay bin? Can't she tell the difference or will she just try to dig and lay in the thin substrate?

You can have both, but the substrate needs to be bioactive, not just bark chips

 

[ConfusedHornwormGuy]

You can have both, but the substrate needs to be bioactive, not just bark chips

Sorry I use the term bark chips but they are the bioactive one from the pet shop, I also have the moss with the natural antibiotic properties to help keep things clean

 

[ERKleRose]

Sorry I use the term bark chips but they are the bioactive one from the pet shop, I also have the moss with the natural antibiotic properties to help keep things clean

You do need more than bark chips and moss to make a proper bioactive substrate. You need multiple types of substrates/substrate ingredients that all work together to allow springtails, isopods, plant life, and more to thrive. This a great blog explaining everything! https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/intro-to-bio-activity.2429/

 

[ConfusedHornwormGuy]

Oh okay that's awesome. I'll read the guide and work on making some and get all of the substrate out of both of their cages, cause I am also using the bark chips and moss in my veiled enclosure as well.