Sign of MBD or typical baby behavior?

I tried stacking things between their cages at one point but the space is too small, I need to like go get a piece of acrylic or plastic or black wood or something to place between them. Just haven't been able to find the right thing for the job, and didn't really want to use fabric.

Another update, went to the store yesterday and purchased crickets and new calcium with a multivitamin with no d3 and I couldn't find d3 by itself, only d3 with calcium, so I grabbed that. Made sure it was all phosphorus free as well. I prepared some repashi bug burger last night and poured it into shot glasses (using them as moulds) placed in fridge and used a butter knife to release into the cricket enclosures for gut loading. Will be more sparing on the crickets as it is difficult to dust them.
 
My suggestions will be in red.
  • Your Chameleon veiled and panther, male and female, I estimate my veiled is about 3 to 4 months and panther (female) is around 1 month closing on 2 months, purchased when she was very very small, probably just hatched like a week before.
  • Handling - daily or every other day depending, usually for short periods to interact for feeding or giving water.
  • Feeding - mealworms, repashi bug burger, since they are small I feed them to their hearts content, usually 3 mealworms daily for the panther and 5-7 medium sized mealworms or 3-4 large mealworms. I plan to feed the veiled less only a couple times a week in a few months and in about 5 or 6 months do the same schedule for the panther. Switching to crickets as of today. I think many of us are with you on not preferring crickets. While there is the ‘ick’ factor, roaches are awesome feeders. I scream like a little girl and run away when I see roaches, but I’ve gotten very used to and even grown fond of my roach colony. Silkworms are my favorite and have no ickiness. Bsfl (aka: Phoenix worms, calci worms) are great to add as a staple feeder, especially for young chams...perfect size. Do avoid mealworms unless you have no other feeder available. Your panther should be getting fed as much as she can eat in a 15 minute period, twice a day. I’m about another month you’ll cut her back to about 13-15 feeders once daily, which is what your male veiled should be getting now. Month by month they are cut back on number of feeders.
  • Supplements - calcium and vitamin d3 as discussed will get on regular routine and stopping the d3. There’s as many different supplement regimens as there are supplements available. You do want to use a phosphorus free calcium without D3 at every feeding. I prefer having my multivitamin and D3 combined and use Reptivite with D3 for one feeding every other week. As others have said, you will want to hold off on giving D3 again for a few weeks or so. If you choose to use separate multivitamin and D3, each one of those is used for one feeding every other week. One week you’d use the D3 and the next, the multi. Reptivite also comes without D3.
  • Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking? How are you watering them and how frequently? The recommended is to spray for at least 2 minutes early in the morning and later in the evening. For mid day, you could use a dripper for at least 20-30 minutes or add another misting of 1-2 minutes.
  • Fecal Description - brown, large, not watery or malformed, urine contained along with the calcium and no sperm plugs that I have been able to see, likely because of age. No testing for parasites.
Cage Info:
  • Cage Type - screen, 16x16x32 This is ok for now, but each will be needing a larger minimum of 2x2x4’ enclosure.
  • Lighting - dual ballast, usually runs from 7am to 6pm for the panther and my veiled likes to bask longer so I usually let him go until 7pm or 8pm. You need to get correct uvb lighting of a T5 linear fixture with either a 5.0 or 6% uvb bulb. Screw in uvb provides only a very narrow and short area of correct UVI and for mercury vapor lights you need a solarmeter to adjust for correct UVI. Your lights should be on a 12 hour schedule for both. No lights at night.
  • Temperature - I used to check their temps regularly but I keep the temperature moderate in here, not too hot or cold. They should be comfortably around 70-80 degrees while on their basking posts. Using UVB and UVA bulbs, just replaced like last month and replace them every few months. Not sure what brand of ballast or light but they are your generic storebought lights that you'd pick up at a pet store, the green and black boxes. Night temps at a low are like 50 degrees on a cold night but regularly around 60-70 because we keep the apartments temperature moderate. It’s pretty important to keep track of temps. I’d suggest getting a digital thermometer with a probe and just keep it in place at basking area. Basking temps need to be around 80 for both. Too cool and their metabolism slows and they don’t digest their food as well, among other things. Too hot and there’s risk for burns.
  • Humidity - I have a humidifier that runs, with a screen it's kinda hard to keep it all in there, so I just leave it running all day, water collects at the top of the screen and my veiled likes to drink from the top of his screen. I give them both water by hand and they also have water fixtures in their cages as well. Ok...no. You don’t want to use a humidifier during the day. High heat + high humidity = respiratory infection. For hydration, see my watering comment. Humidity during the day for your veiled should be between 30-50% and for your panther, between 50-70%. You need to let their enclosures dry out in between watering. It is a tricky thing to maintain ideal humidity for each cham when they have different needs. I have 3 veiled and a panther and all of their enclosures are side by side. Humidity stays around 45-46%. I do give my panther an extra misting or two or run a dripper for him for extra humidity during the day. At night is when you want to use the humidifier. When it’s cool, you can get their humidity up to 80-100%. This will simulate the hydrating fog of their natUralic habitat and will help hydrate them.
  • Plants - yes, one money tree which my veiled has ate off of and been fine- I know it's still on the fence whether or not these are fine but I haven't had an issue with it. I have a couple trees in there that I also checked to make sure was safe and I also have that big red and green one, don't remember what it's called but I also checked to make sure it's safe before buying it and putting it in his cage. Money tree is safe. I’m attaching a couple of safe plant lists for you. Your veiled will nibble his plants so they all need to be real and safe. To help with humidity, it’s good to give your panther only real plants too. Pothos is always a favorite as it’s awesome for chameleons.
  • Placement - cage is about 4 feet off the ground, it's not high traffic but I have a studio apartment so I do have to walk by their cages to get to my kitchen, but I'm not like constantly walking back and forth past their cages.
  • Location - Oregon, pacific northwest, so we naturally have good humidity in the air and high heat temperatures are never an issue, the only concern is extreme cold however we keep our apartment heated. I wouldn’t worry about cooler temps unless they get below 55 at night.
Current Problem - supplements and feeders Also attaching graphics on feeders and gutloading. I don’t traditionally gutload. I do keep my feeder bugs well fed with fresh produce and also Repashy Bug Burger. I also add in some bee pollen and spirulina when I make my bug burger. Keeping your bugs well fed and healthy makes them much more nutritious for your chameleons.
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As if I’m not wordy enough, I did forget to address them being able to see each other. While it may not seem that they are bothered by being able to see each other, believe me, they are. It’s a source of chronic stress which is very bad. It doesn’t need to be anything fancy...use a bed sheet or beach towel if that’s all you’ve got for now, but do block their views of each other as soon as possible.
 
Ive tried spraying for watering and it doesnt work. My veiled and panther know their fixture locations and I water them by hand (droplets on the nose until they start drinking) usually twice a week. I can tell by their behavior when they start to get thirsty because they tend to start going lower in their cage or spending time in the upper area by where the humidifer runs.


I think you misunderstood what I said about the humidifier.... because it's in a screen all of the humidity escapes almost immediately, it blows humidity into a portion of the cage which has foliage and is at the upper part of his cage... water collects on the foliage and on the top of the screen, he drinks from there. The humidity doesnt spread out to the other areas of the cage, so this isn't an issue.

Noted on the light fixtures. Can you link me to a ballast and both of the lights which I need in there?

I've placed a blanket between their cages so they can't see one another.
 
ERKleRose said:
Yes, UVA is just any visible light. Though if you have live plants, you'll want to get a plant light, too. If you buy one of the generic T% HO fixtures in the link I posted, they come with a plant light!
Click to expand...
I was planning on doing the t5 ballast with the arcadia light, it says it comes with the UVB bulb, but I also wanted to make sure I had the other spectrum covered as well since the ballast only holds 1 light. I assume buying that one with the UVB 6% and the other ballast with the UVA will suffice?
 
Just an update. Started the feeding of calcium dusted crickets today for both, also repurposed an old mealworm container, dumping the crickets in there and shaking around with calcium coats them perfectly and makes it easy for the chameleons to spot. The adults escape but the babies don't. My veiled hasn't had a problem hunting them and seems to actually enjoy it, plus has been fun watching him chase them around. The baby crickets in the panthers cage mostly stayed in the dish, it looks like she has eaten a few but not sure. She's looking happy and healthy today and is basking on her branch, holding off on the d3 seems to have given them more energy and a boost. I appreciate you all helping me get ahead on the toxicity matter so I can prevent any major disease like mouth rot, parasite infestations, or MBD later on, the help means a lot. Looking forward to another step forward in the chameleon journey with these juveniles and hoping to enjoy a full life with the two of them. Also looking forward to posting more updates and pics as they continue to grow!
 
ConfusedHornwormGuy said:
Just an update. Started the feeding of calcium dusted crickets today for both, also repurposed an old mealworm container, dumping the crickets in there and shaking around with calcium coats them perfectly and makes it easy for the chameleons to spot. The adults escape but the babies don't. My veiled hasn't had a problem hunting them and seems to actually enjoy it, plus has been fun watching him chase them around. The baby crickets in the panthers cage mostly stayed in the dish, it looks like she has eaten a few but not sure. She's looking happy and healthy today and is basking on her branch, holding off on the d3 seems to have given them more energy and a boost. I appreciate you all helping me get ahead on the toxicity matter so I can prevent any major disease like mouth rot, parasite infestations, or MBD later on, the help means a lot. Looking forward to another step forward in the chameleon journey with these juveniles and hoping to enjoy a full life with the two of them. Also looking forward to posting more updates and pics as they continue to grow!
Click to expand...
Awesome!
 
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