Sign of MBD or typical baby behavior?

MissSkittles

Chameleon Enthusiast
I definitely agree to having a full husbandry review. While I’m not great at sexing panthers, I do believe you have a beautiful little girl. When she matures, she will lay eggs regardless of being mated and to prevent any potential problems, her husbandry needs to be as perfect as possible.
 

PoseidonTheChameleon

Chameleon Enthusiast
So you shouldn’t put them on his daily crickets?
It's ok if your confused still. Like AmandaS said, you will use calcium WITHOUT d3 almost every feeding,then you will pick a day out of the week (say sunday) to use the calcium WITH d3 that you have. Then the next sunday you will use a multivitamin without d3, and every day that you feed your cham in between those sundays are the days you will you calcium WITHOUT d3
 

Klyde O'Scope

Chameleon Enthusiast
So you shouldn’t put them on his daily crickets?
You can put them on crickets—just not daily.

One way to keep the supplements straight:
  1. Pick a day of the week (I supplement on Sundays when I do major cleaning & chores).
  2. Every supplement day, alternate between calcium w/D3 and multivitamins. I mark the calendar ahead of time each month so I don't mix up supplement days.
  3. Every other day of the month, dust w/ calcium w/o D3
 
I appreciate the concern guys and I understand that d3 daily is probably a rookie mistake. Ive owned veileds before and panthers so I understand the basis of proper husbandry, I've researched all his plants, give him water regularly, he is very docile and calm, low stress, however I wanted to be sure this behavior wasn't a sign of something more. I'm glad just based off of the minimal descriptions I provided you were able to identify the issue. The part of husbandry where im failing here is really just giving the d3 too much and supplements.

I really did mean it when I said it's straightforward and maybe I was too nonchalant when I explained how I'd do their supplements going forward so here's what I understand.

Calcium daily, every other sunday give d3, and then on the alternating sundays I provide a vitamin multisupplement that is powdered, will only rarely use the liquid supplement. Thank you.
 

ERKleRose

Chameleon Enthusiast
I appreciate the concern guys and I understand that d3 daily is probably a rookie mistake. Ive owned veileds before and panthers so I understand the basis of proper husbandry, I've researched all his plants, give him water regularly, he is very docile and calm, low stress, however I wanted to be sure this behavior wasn't a sign of something more. I'm glad just based off of the minimal descriptions I provided you were able to identify the issue. The part of husbandry where im failing here is really just giving the d3 too much and supplements.

I really did mean it when I said it's straightforward and maybe I was too nonchalant when I explained how I'd do their supplements going forward so here's what I understand.

Calcium daily, every other sunday give d3, and then on the alternating sundays I provide a vitamin multisupplement that is powdered, will only rarely use the liquid supplement. Thank you.
So no using the liquid supplement. Get a good quality powdered supplement brand for your supplements, like Zoo Med’s ReptiCalcium Without D3 to use say every Monday through Saturday feeding. Get Zoo Med’s ReptiCalcium With D3 to use say on the first and third Sunday of each month for D3 feedings. Get Zoo Med’s Reptivite Without D3 to use on the second and fourth Sunday of each month for multivitamin feedings.
 
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Noted, will just return the liquid supplement to amazon then. Will pick up a multivitamin today, they are out of feeders as of today so ill be holding off on d3 for a little while to let their systems detox then get back onto this recommended supplement routine.
 

ERKleRose

Chameleon Enthusiast
Noted, will just return the liquid supplement to amazon then. Will pick up a multivitamin today, they are out of feeders as of today so ill be holding off on d3 for a little while to let their systems detox then get back onto this recommended supplement routine.
Also make sure to only dust the feeders when you are going to feed them off, not before. Also make sure to use the recommended feeders and gutloads from these two sheets to help make sure your chameleon is healthy. For gutload, either feed/have it in your feeder containers 24/7, or use a lesser quality gutload, like some Mazuri Better Bug Gutloading Diet or Pangea Roach and Cricket Food (can be used dry or mixed with water as a food and water source in one) or only one or two fresh gutload ingredients 24/7, and either the day before, overnight, or until a few hours until feeding some feeders off, offer them the high-quality gutload in a separate container. To make sure I have as much variety as possible in my gutload (variety is best for both gutload ingredients and different types/species of feeders!), I mix everything together in the correct rations in a blender along with Kosher gelatin, which will provide a water source for my feeders! If you don’t want to do a food and water source in one, you can also use cotton balls or paper towel soaked in water or hydrated water crystals (make sure to get them from a good source, like a reputable online feeder company, like our sponsors) for their water source. Let me know if you need more clarification or have any questions!
 

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Would repashi bug burger work alright? I still have some from when i was trying to breed hornworms and failed miserably. Would it be safe for mealworms to consume? That is what I've been giving them in addition to their bark chips. I assume for crickets it wouldn't be an issue.
 

ERKleRose

Chameleon Enthusiast
Would repashi bug burger work alright? I still have some from when i was trying to breed hornworms and failed miserably. Would it be safe for mealworms to consume? That is what I've been giving them in addition to their bark chips. I assume for crickets it wouldn't be an issue.
Repashy Bug Burger is a quality gutload that’ll work for both (though mealworms should be fed sparingly as treats only), along with most of the feeders on the feeder chart. Repashymakes a hornworm chow called Superhorn for future reference, too!
 
I'll switch to crickets for both of them. I just HATE the hopping, and it's impossible to keep them in the food dishes which is why i regularly use mealworms. I worry that because of his/her size he/she won't be able to hunt for crickets.
 

ERKleRose

Chameleon Enthusiast
I'll switch to crickets for both of them. I just HATE the hopping, and it's impossible to keep them in the food dishes which is why i regularly use mealworms. I worry that because of his/her size he/she won't be able to hunt for crickets.
Can you get roaches, black soldier fly larvae, silkworms, or any other type of feeder from the chart besides just crickets? As long as the feeders are small enough, it shouldn’t matter when he/she is hunting them!
 
Chameleon Info:

  • Your Chameleon veiled and panther, male and female, I estimate my veiled is about 3 to 4 months and panther (female) is around 1 month closing on 2 months, purchased when she was very very small, probably just hatched like a week before.
  • Handling - daily or every other day depending, usually for short periods to interact for feeding or giving water.
  • Feeding - mealworms, repashi bug burger, since they are small I feed them to their hearts content, usually 3 mealworms daily for the panther and 5-7 medium sized mealworms or 3-4 large mealworms. I plan to feed the veiled less only a couple times a week in a few months and in about 5 or 6 months do the same schedule for the panther. Switching to crickets as of today.
  • Supplements - calcium and vitamin d3 as discussed will get on regular routine and stopping the d3.
  • Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
  • Fecal Description - brown, large, not watery or malformed, urine contained along with the calcium and no sperm plugs that I have been able to see, likely because of age. No testing for parasites.
Cage Info:
  • Cage Type - screen, 16x16x32
  • Lighting - dual ballast, usually runs from 7am to 6pm for the panther and my veiled likes to bask longer so I usually let him go until 7pm or 8pm.
  • Temperature - I used to check their temps regularly but I keep the temperature moderate in here, not too hot or cold. They should be comfortably around 70-80 degrees while on their basking posts. Using UVB and UVA bulbs, just replaced like last month and replace them every few months. Not sure what brand of ballast or light but they are your generic storebought lights that you'd pick up at a pet store, the green and black boxes. Night temps at a low are like 50 degrees on a cold night but regularly around 60-70 because we keep the apartments temperature moderate.
  • Humidity - I have a humidifier that runs, with a screen it's kinda hard to keep it all in there, so I just leave it running all day, water collects at the top of the screen and my veiled likes to drink from the top of his screen. I give them both water by hand and they also have water fixtures in their cages as well.
  • Plants - yes, one money tree which my veiled has ate off of and been fine- I know it's still on the fence whether or not these are fine but I haven't had an issue with it. I have a couple trees in there that I also checked to make sure was safe and I also have that big red and green one, don't remember what it's called but I also checked to make sure it's safe before buying it and putting it in his cage.
  • Placement - cage is about 4 feet off the ground, it's not high traffic but I have a studio apartment so I do have to walk by their cages to get to my kitchen, but I'm not like constantly walking back and forth past their cages.
  • Location - Oregon, pacific northwest, so we naturally have good humidity in the air and high heat temperatures are never an issue, the only concern is extreme cold however we keep our apartment heated.
Current Problem - supplements and feeders

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chamoflage

Member
Are the cages right next to each other? If so do you have a covering between them so they can't see each other? There's a few other things that stand out to me on the husbandry form but I'm still newer myself and don't want to give over information or misspeak.

Perhaps a couple of the more experienced keepers can review and give some feedback to help give your chams the best life. I know I was super thankful to get feedback because there's so much misinformation out there.

@ERKleRose @MissSkittles
 

ERKleRose

Chameleon Enthusiast
I won't be able to review this until probably late afternoon when I'm finally free, so if no one has done it by then, I'll do it!
 
Are the cages right next to each other? If so do you have a covering between them so they can't see each other? There's a few other things that stand out to me on the husbandry form but I'm still newer myself and don't want to give over information or misspeak.

Perhaps a couple of the more experienced keepers can review and give some feedback to help give your chams the best life. I know I was super thankful to get feedback because there's so much misinformation out there.

@ERKleRose @MissSkittles
I'm planning on getting a screen for between their cages soon, however the panther is still a baby and my veiled hasn't seemed to be bothered by him, they both just chill, I think it's because they generally don't see eachother. I'm planning on adding something between them though yes.
 
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