Strange out of the blue behavior

[MannyXO]

My older panther that is about 2 years old started bein a lil funky lately, i havent had time to get him some new live plants in his enclosure because of a few school duties, but just yesterday i did get him a new ficus benjamina. However here in Los Angeles the weathers been back and forth with warm and cold so all of my panthers are in a winter funk still. He has been a tad bit more dull but his activity, eating, mobility have been great. However just today i did notice him sleeping mid day and a lil darker than usual which alarmed me. My last panther i had who was initially a rescue from a bad reptile store ended up passing from some parasites that were running rampant. And he wasnt even sleeping through the day. This guy gets calcium with Lod twice a month, calcium w/o d3 regularly and reptivite twice a month as well. I installed a new UVB into a new hood as well. And have a 75w bulb in his enclosure. Humidity is a stable 50-80% and he eats crickets, horn worms occasionally, super worms once a month.

 

[elizaann2]

Hello and welome! Can you share a photo of the enclosure? Please include the lights on the top.

 

[CalamityCrow]

Pictures of your cham would also be good.

You said you give him repashy LoD twice a month and reptivite twice a month - does that mean he's getting a multivitamin every week? If so, that's too much in the way of supplements. Repashy LoD twice a month (say, the 1st and 15th) is a perfect vitamin/supplement regimen. Otherwise, pure calcium (no D3) with every feeding is what you want to do.

Sleeping midday is a bad sign. Has he had a fecal done?

I'd suggest filling out the husbandry form in full so we can get a good look at what you're doing to see if we can pinpoint any causes for his eyes closed during the day. That usually means something is going wrong and he's feeling pretty awful, but it's hard to know what the cause might be without that complete picture.

Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
• Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
• Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
• Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
• Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
• Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
• History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
• Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
• Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
• Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
• Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
• Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
• Location - Where are you geographically located?

Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.

--------------

Please Note:

1. The more details you provide the better and more accurate help you will receive.
2. Photos can be very helpful.

 

[MannyXO]

• Your Chameleon - YBB male panther chameleon roughly a year and 7 months old
• Handling - as needed or for educational shows
• Feeding - crickets, dubias as staple, hornworms rarely and super worms rarely. Gut load with carrots and bug burger. All chams eat 3/4 times a week
• Supplements - calcium with LoD
• Watering - i use a hand on mister, yes chameleon is drinking
• Fecal Description - consistent, straw yellow urate with normal looking stool
• History - he was passed onto me from a old breeder who could not hold many chameleons, we did have a problem with him when i first got him with “lazy tongue” from what the vet said. Hes able to shoot tongue but does miss from time to time. Hes been with me since he was 5 months old.
• Cage Type - reptibreeze 4x2x2
• Lighting - 75w zoomed bulb and a T5 5.0 UVB with a 24inch uvb hood
• Temperature - highest i get is 80-85 lowest 70/72
• Humidity - hydrometer and humidity is 50-85%
• Plants - dracaena, umbrella plants, ficus benjamina or money trees
• Placement - corner of the reptile room next to other chameleons.
• Location - los angeles.
• 
  
• I cannot post any pics just yet as im here at work still

 

[MannyXO]

Pictures of your cham would also be good.

You said you give him repashy LoD twice a month and reptivite twice a month - does that mean he's getting a multivitamin every week? If so, that's too much in the way of supplements. Repashy LoD twice a month (say, the 1st and 15th) is a perfect vitamin/supplement regimen. Otherwise, pure calcium (no D3) with every feeding is what you want to do.

Sleeping midday is a bad sign. Has he had a fecal done?

I'd suggest filling out the husbandry form in full so we can get a good look at what you're doing to see if we can pinpoint any causes for his eyes closed during the day. That usually means something is going wrong and he's feeling pretty awful, but it's hard to know what the cause might be without that complete picture.

Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
• Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
• Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
• Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
• Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
• Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
• History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
• Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
• Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
• Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
• Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
• Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
• Location - Where are you geographically located?

Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.

--------------

Please Note:

1. The more details you provide the better and more accurate help you will receive.
2. Photos can be very helpful.

I caught myself there in

• Your Chameleon - YBB male panther chameleon roughly a year and 7 months old
• Handling - as needed or for educational shows
• Feeding - crickets, dubias as staple, hornworms rarely and super worms rarely. Gut load with carrots and bug burger. All chams eat 3/4 times a week
• Supplements - calcium with LoD
• Watering - i use a hand on mister, yes chameleon is drinking
• Fecal Description - consistent, straw yellow urate with normal looking stool
• History - he was passed onto me from a old breeder who could not hold many chameleons, we did have a problem with him when i first got him with “lazy tongue” from what the vet said. Hes able to shoot tongue but does miss from time to time. Hes been with me since he was 5 months old.
• Cage Type - reptibreeze 4x2x2
• Lighting - 75w zoomed bulb and a T5 5.0 UVB with a 24inch uvb hood
• Temperature - highest i get is 80-85 lowest 70/72
• Humidity - hydrometer and humidity is 50-85%
• Plants - dracaena, umbrella plants, ficus benjamina or money trees
• Placement - corner of the reptile room next to other chameleons.
• Location - los angeles.
• 
  
• I cannot post any pics just yet as im here at work still

started sleeping mid day after enclosure rearranging yesterday, added new tree. Still eating and moving about when not caught sleepin. But when sleeping has some dull/ dark lines.

 

[MannyXO]

Hello and welome! Can you share a photo of the enclosure? Please include the lights on the top.

I can a little later tonight

 

[MannyXO]

Heres the enclosure with my little dude.

 

[CalamityCrow]

• Your Chameleon - YBB male panther chameleon roughly a year and 7 months old
• Handling - as needed or for educational shows
• Feeding - crickets, dubias as staple, hornworms rarely and super worms rarely. Gut load with carrots and bug burger. All chams eat 3/4 times a week
• Supplements - calcium with LoD
• Watering - i use a hand on mister, yes chameleon is drinking
• Fecal Description - consistent, straw yellow urate with normal looking stool
• History - he was passed onto me from a old breeder who could not hold many chameleons, we did have a problem with him when i first got him with “lazy tongue” from what the vet said. Hes able to shoot tongue but does miss from time to time. Hes been with me since he was 5 months old.
• Cage Type - reptibreeze 4x2x2
• Lighting - 75w zoomed bulb and a T5 5.0 UVB with a 24inch uvb hood
• Temperature - highest i get is 80-85 lowest 70/72
• Humidity - hydrometer and humidity is 50-85%
• Plants - dracaena, umbrella plants, ficus benjamina or money trees
• Placement - corner of the reptile room next to other chameleons.
• Location - los angeles.
• 
  
• I cannot post any pics just yet as im here at work still

Howdy! Can you be more specific? The more detail you give, the better we can assess what's going on.

Handling - how often do you do educational shows?
Feeding - How many bugs do you feed your cham per feeding? How do you do it - bowl, shooting gallery, by hand? It's probably best to gutload with fresh veggies only. My concern is that the bug burger is over-supplementing the feeders, and if you combine that with a possible over-supplementation of Repashy LoD, that could be a very highly likely cause for your cham not feeling well. I'm going to attach a feeding/gutloading image that'll be really helpful! Also: where are you getting your feeders? I've personally found that local pet store feeders, especially crickets, are often unfortunately infested with parasites because of cross-contamination with other reptiles. It sounds like you have other reptiles as well, which can be prime to pass parasites around too especially if you share feeders across your different animals.
Supplements - How often do you give the LoD? For best health, your cham should be eating all feeders dusted with a calcium powder WITHOUT D3. 2x a month (Say, the 1st and 15th) should be a dusting with the LoD multivitamin. If you give any more than that, you're likely to overdose your cham on D3 and possibly A, which can cause a whole slew of problems, as they're fat-soluable vitamins and can take quite a while to process through their systems. If you're supplementing differently, that could be some explanation for your cham's concerning behaviors.
Watering - How often do you mist, and when? Does the enclosure have a way to dry out between mistings? Do you have good airflow?
History - Have you ever had a fecal float done to test for parasites?
Lighting - The UVB light sounds correct, but from the picture it looks like your boy might be able to get too close. For the T5s, you want his highest branch to be 7-9 inches below the lamp on top of the cage. Also, what brand do you have, and when was the last time you changed it?
Temperature - How are you measuring your temps? I see a digital hygrometer in the image you posted, so that's good! But I don't see a probe thermometer and that's ideal.

Can you post a couple more pictures of your cham himself? Being able to see his body/turrets/legs will help us help you as well!

I think with a few more details, we'll be able to more effectively assess what might be causal in your boy's not feeling well but based on what info I have, my suspicion is too much in the way of D3 and/or A, or maybe parasites.

One of the things I see that concerns me about the enclosure is that while you have EXCELLENT foliage, the bamboo bars there worry me - when the cage gets wet, they can get SLICK. I'd be concerned about your cham slipping and hurting himself. Additionally, you have a lot of horizontal perches, but not much that cross-cross or go angled towards the vertical. I'd swap out the bamboo with real sticks from the yard - they're free and more natural in diameter and texture. Any stick will do as long as it's not from a sap-bearing tree, or anything with a lot of smell, like cedar. A few of the fluker's fake vines to twist and turn around your sticks would also be very helpful. Just don't get the mossy ones - they can flake stuff off and get bits into their eyes. The perches, however, are unlikely to be a contributing factor to his current behavior, unless he's had an injury at some point.

Eyes closed at all in the day time is a bad sign. @elizaann2 can post our growing list of reputable vets across the country. I'd highly suggest scheduling a vet appointment to find out what's going on. As you probably know, reptiles hide their ailments VERY well and any signs they're outwardly showing usually mean they're headed towards a serious illness.

Finally please see the chart below about gutloading - you may find it beneficial.

 

[MannyXO]

Howdy! Can you be more specific? The more detail you give, the better we can assess what's going on.

Handling - how often do you do educational shows?
Feeding - How many bugs do you feed your cham per feeding? How do you do it - bowl, shooting gallery, by hand? It's probably best to gutload with fresh veggies only. My concern is that the bug burger is over-supplementing the feeders, and if you combine that with a possible over-supplementation of Repashy LoD, that could be a very highly likely cause for your cham not feeling well. I'm going to attach a feeding/gutloading image that'll be really helpful! Also: where are you getting your feeders? I've personally found that local pet store feeders, especially crickets, are often unfortunately infested with parasites because of cross-contamination with other reptiles. It sounds like you have other reptiles as well, which can be prime to pass parasites around too especially if you share feeders across your different animals.
Supplements - How often do you give the LoD? For best health, your cham should be eating all feeders dusted with a calcium powder WITHOUT D3. 2x a month (Say, the 1st and 15th) should be a dusting with the LoD multivitamin. If you give any more than that, you're likely to overdose your cham on D3 and possibly A, which can cause a whole slew of problems, as they're fat-soluable vitamins and can take quite a while to process through their systems. If you're supplementing differently, that could be some explanation for your cham's concerning behaviors.
Watering - How often do you mist, and when? Does the enclosure have a way to dry out between mistings? Do you have good airflow?
History - Have you ever had a fecal float done to test for parasites?
Lighting - The UVB light sounds correct, but from the picture it looks like your boy might be able to get too close. For the T5s, you want his highest branch to be 7-9 inches below the lamp on top of the cage. Also, what brand do you have, and when was the last time you changed it?
Temperature - How are you measuring your temps? I see a digital hygrometer in the image you posted, so that's good! But I don't see a probe thermometer and that's ideal.

Can you post a couple more pictures of your cham himself? Being able to see his body/turrets/legs will help us help you as well!

I think with a few more details, we'll be able to more effectively assess what might be causal in your boy's not feeling well but based on what info I have, my suspicion is too much in the way of D3 and/or A, or maybe parasites.

One of the things I see that concerns me about the enclosure is that while you have EXCELLENT foliage, the bamboo bars there worry me - when the cage gets wet, they can get SLICK. I'd be concerned about your cham slipping and hurting himself. Additionally, you have a lot of horizontal perches, but not much that cross-cross or go angled towards the vertical. I'd swap out the bamboo with real sticks from the yard - they're free and more natural in diameter and texture. Any stick will do as long as it's not from a sap-bearing tree, or anything with a lot of smell, like cedar. A few of the fluker's fake vines to twist and turn around your sticks would also be very helpful. Just don't get the mossy ones - they can flake stuff off and get bits into their eyes. The perches, however, are unlikely to be a contributing factor to his current behavior, unless he's had an injury at some point.

Eyes closed at all in the day time is a bad sign. @elizaann2 can post our growing list of reputable vets across the country. I'd highly suggest scheduling a vet appointment to find out what's going on. As you probably know, reptiles hide their ailments VERY well and any signs they're outwardly showing usually mean they're headed towards a serious illness.

Finally please see the chart below about gutloading - you may find it beneficial.

View attachment 353552

In terms of handling i do a basic check up on all my chams like twice a week, and educational shows arent always a thing so we can say thats more random

Feed wise i have galleries and usually give all the adults 10-14 crickets or roaches, superworms and or hornworms i offer 1/2 as a treat and more rarely. I buy my feeders from petco and a friends shop. I had an incident where a petsmart i bought feeders from had one of my rescue chams in emergency with 2 parasites that took him out. Thankfully the petco i do visit is clean and all as i have inspected the cricket bins before. I do have various other reptiles from snakes to various geckos and monitors. So i offer calcium w/o d3 daily and LoD twice if not a 3rd time a month for some of my chams. With d3 only twice a month. I should cut down to the 2 times a month for the LoD. Also to correct my confusion i have swapped from reptivite but when i did use it it was also a 2 times a month situation.

Misting wise. One medium mist in the morning. Usually i do a heavier one mid day or my brother also does it. And then a misting at night before 10pm humidity does dry out well in the area i have all the chams so it doesn't always stay humid great airflow as well and away from open windows and drafts.

No fecal testing done hes been really healthy with me especially from a bounce back scare when i first took him in. Maybe i should get him tested for Parasites.

The branch is exactly at 9 inches from the top i did measure before taking that photo. And i use zoomeds bulbs and their t5’s. And for temps i have a infrared heat gun so i can scan directly.

And as for the bamboo i do want to swap it out however any trees locally in my city and in the alley in my backyard are usually treated and i am very suspicious to any form of pesticides as i have various arachnids and feeders i do breed and do not want to cross contaminate my colonies or spid’s. I do get the dowels from michaels or homedepot which have worked great for me long term with my eldery chams.
As for photos i can update those of hermes in the morning when i do wake.

 

[elizaann2]

I agree with everything that @CalamityCrow said. Getting some fecals done to rule out parasites and/or treat them if that is the problem is a great idea. I also would be concerned with over supplementing.

Attached you'll find our vet list.

 

[Beman]

Heres the enclosure with my little dude.

Is he able to see the cage next to him? Looks like you do not have solid dividers in between.

Depending on the parasite issues your prior cham you lost had some are more contagious to others. Eyes closed during the day can mean a lot of different things, UVB bulb not producing and needs to be replaced, infection, parasites, stress from seeing other chams, and even d3 overdose.

You only want to give calcium without D3 at all feedings and then for panthers or veileds you would be giving repashy LoD 2 times a month say the 1st and the 15th. Then you would not give any additional D3 supplements. D3 is fat soluble so it stores in the system which is why we only supplement with oral d3 two times a month for these species.

 

[MannyXO]

Is he able to see the cage next to him? Looks like you do not have solid dividers in between.

Depending on the parasite issues your prior cham you lost had some are more contagious to others. Eyes closed during the day can mean a lot of different things, UVB bulb not producing and needs to be replaced, infection, parasites, stress from seeing other chams, and even d3 overdose.

You only want to give calcium without D3 at all feedings and then for panthers or veileds you would be giving repashy LoD 2 times a month say the 1st and the 15th. Then you would not give any additional D3 supplements. D3 is fat soluble so it stores in the system which is why we only supplement with oral d3 two times a month for these species.

The uvb is 100% so that im not concerned with. Stress from rearranging the enclosure a maybe, parasites us also likely however im super sanitary in all enclosures and a huge freak with cross contamination so im hoping thats less likely the cause. Here are some pictures of hermes

 

[MannyXO]

Behind some screen but hes munching on bugs

 

[elizaann2]

He is such a cutie!

 

[MannyXO]

Right before the photo he had some dark lining on his eyes and lips so im not sure if he was basking and then i kinda came into his zone. Im in a hawk eye mode and noticing all the small things that can be nothing.

 

[elizaann2]

Could be basking colors too. Their colors can become darker when basking to soak up heat and UVB.

 

[CalamityCrow]

Thanks for all the updates! My only guesses are D3 overdose, between the supplementation and the higher D3 content in bug burger... or possibly parasites. If I were you, I'd get a fecal done at the vet and rule that out, since it's an easy thing to check.

Hermes is a GREAT name for a panther cham and he's ADORABLE! I hope you can pinpoint what's making him feel bad. Poor buddy.