Recurring Impacted Sperm Plugs

[KLowery88]

I just dropped off Monty at the vet to have another set of impacted sperm plugs removed. He's been off food for more than a week and been straining to pass the plugs since yesterday. When I first got him a month and a half ago he had the same problem, so the vet is concerned that the previous large impaction, after having been left in for some time by his previous owners, could have done damage to the hemipenes.

Has anyone else had this problem? I've been researching how I might help him pass any future plugs, since I'd rather not have to stress him with a vet visit every month where he has to be sedated. If there is anything in my husbandry that I could change to make it easier, I'd love to know.

I moved him into a larger cage one week ago, so previous husbandry is outlined here: https://www.chameleonforums.com/thr...-male-veiled-today-advice-appreciated.145566/

Current husbandry:

Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - Veiled male, been in care month and a half, likely around a year to year and a half but not sure of age
• Handling - As little as possible. Just to weigh and move from cage to cage. Twice moved outside to get some natural sunlight
• Feeding - Offering discoid roach nymphs and superworms in feeder cups, crickets free range
• Supplements - Repashy Supercal NoD during the week, Repashy Calcium Plus on first and third Saturday of the month
• Watering - Dripper, hand misting 2 - 3 times a day
• Fecal Description - Been well over a week since the last poop. Poop was well formed, dark and moist with white urate. About a week ago found a white urate on its own. Nothing since I've moved him to the new cage.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - Screen, 24x24x48"
• Lighting - Reptisun 10.0 tube
• Temperature - Basking: 93 to 95, Ambient: 77 to 80
• Humidity - Around 50% ambient, 60-70% within plant leaves,
• Plants - Pothos at top, Schefflera in the middle
• Placement - Home office room
• Location - North Florida

 

[Carlton]

Damage from previous impactions is a possibility but I've never had to deal with this. My other reaction is wondering if he is not quite as hydrated as he could be. If the body is always trying to reclaim moisture maybe that could contribute to harder dried out sperm plugs getting stuck.

 

[KLowery88]

Damage from previous impactions is a possibility but I've never had to deal with this. My other reaction is wondering if he is not quite as hydrated as he could be. If the body is always trying to reclaim moisture maybe that could contribute to harder dried out sperm plugs getting stuck.

Dehydration was what I was wondering about as well since that is a much simpler reason, and I believe that's what caused the first impaction. Could a chameleon with white urates be dehydrated though?

I just brought him back home and the vet said that he was very careful to get everything out and I have a follow up medicine to use to keep any inflammation down.

 

[jannb]

I've had a couple of Chams that had sperm plugs removed when they were old but never did the vet put them to sleep for this but then again my Chams are always very sociable and unless it's major surgery they don't have to be sleeping. My vet does this as part of a routine check up unless it's one that prolapsed recently. I've seen him do it so many times I was able to keep my last old panther clean from sperm impaction myself.

 

[KLowery88]

I've had a couple of Chams that had sperm plugs removed when they were old but never did the vet put them to sleep for this but then again my Chams are always very sociable and unless it's major surgery they don't have to be sleeping. My vet does this as part of a routine check up unless it's one that prolapsed recently. I've seen him do it so many times I was able to keep my last old panther clean from sperm impaction myself.

I don't think he put him completely under, but just a bit to make sure he was still. He really wanted to be sure that he got everything out this time since he didn't sedate him the first time back in early December. I'm hoping everything works itself out and he starts being able to pass them himself.

 

[Carlton]

Dehydration was what I was wondering about as well since that is a much simpler reason, and I believe that's what caused the first impaction. Could a chameleon with white urates be dehydrated though?

Well, we use the white urate as an indicator of hydration but its not a precise thing. Pretty hard to overhydrate them. If you did you'd probably see very runny whole fecals and diluted watery urate.

 

[KLowery88]

Well, we use the white urate as an indicator of hydration but its not a precise thing. Pretty hard to overhydrate them. If you did you'd probably see very runny whole fecals and diluted watery urate.

Fair point. Since he's been moved into the larger cage with better drainage I've been misting for longer so I'll step it up even more. I was hoping to order his Mistking but this vet visit set me back for a bit on that.

With the medicine, more space to move around, and steady hydration I hope he can get things worked out from now on. If it's a chronic problem I'm not sure how else to address it.

 

[JaxyGirl]

I have read that there is a link between vitamin A deficiency and impacted sperm plugs.
Here's a good article http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=17+1796&aid=3027

 

[KLowery88]

I have read that there is a link between vitamin A deficiency and impacted sperm plugs.
Here's a good article http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=17+1796&aid=3027

Thank you, that was very helpful. He's actually suffered from a lot of the symptoms listed.

Reduced growth rate - He is smaller than he should be.

Metabolic bone disease - He does have signs of this on one leg.

Necrosis/sloughing of the tip of the tail - Before I got him his previous owners had to have part of his tail removed because it turned black.

Swollen lips - Not swollen lips, but he did have to have a growth removed from the corner of his mouth.

Difficulty with maintaining a grip or posture - He was very weak with his back legs when I first got him, but this has really improved in the last month.

Loss of appetite - His appetite has been poor since I've had him, though it picked up when his last impaction was cleared and I'm hoping the same happens again.

Hemipenile impactions in young males - Obviously this is his second time going through this.

The last week of December I gave him some vitamin A from a tablet after reading about vit A causing eye issues and I thought that might have contributed to his blind eye. I don't think that's the case now, but it could be causing the other issues. How long does it take to recover from hypovitaminosis A? Should I give him another drop from a vit A tablet?

 

[JaxyGirl]

It can take a bit of time depending on how deficient he is. Add vitamin A gradually and watch him closely because too much can cause hypervitaminosis A. I started researching Vitamin A deficiency because my female was having most of the symptoms stated in this article also. I bought her from a breeder and I noticed she had an issue in one eye but at the time I just thought it was from shipping or that she had something in it so I tried flushing it, moisture drops and nothing hepled. She also had slightly swollen lips along with thick mucus in her mouth and a slight tremor in her gate but otherwise she appeared healthy. So after lots of research I opted to try vitamin A. I have a feeling that her eye had been like that for a long time before I got her. I treated that Eye with Terramycin and started her on Vitamin A.
After about a month all symptoms cleared up. Unfortunately, her eye is still very sensitive and I believe her vision is slighty impaired as a result of the heavy infection but otherwise she is very healthy and all other symptoms are completely gone.

I'm positive that supplimenting with Vit A had to do with her total recovery and has prevented any other issues. I still give all my lizards Vit A once a month.
Vit A is stored in the liver and tissues and muscles in their bodies. Then works its way into the blood stream. Vit A works hand in hand with the utilization and metabolism of Vit D and calcium in their bodies. If there is an imbalance their bodies will compensate by taking what is needed from bones and muscle.
If a Chamelion has a vitamin A deficiency they are not going to build up reserves in they're systems from feeders alone but because there just isn't enough in a feeder at this point to rectify problem.. So you need to suppliment until the Cham gets better. I also believe that the Vitamin A needs to be Preformed Vit A and not Vitamin A in the form of Betacarotine because there is some research that suggests that chams don't break down Betacarotine in their systems very well.

What I did was to suppliment my Cham with Vitamin A for 4 days straight so that it could be utilized in the body right away because remember if he has a vitamin deficiency it means there is none in his body so you have to rebuild that deficit.
Then I supplemented once a week until symptoms went away completely and now I suppliment once a month so there is enough vitamin A stored in the liver for utilization by the body at all times. It is important to maintain that because as soon as you stop eventually the symptoms will come back.
I bought Preformed Vitamin A liquid gels at the pharmacy 1,000 IU. I poked a hole in the gell cap and used a syringe to suck up a drop (that's all you need)
And then I injected it into a favorite feeder which was Horn Worm (kinda gross but it works) The Cham didn't even taste it. You can also use crickets etc.
if you don't have a syringe u can use a small eye dropper and if you don't have that just put a drop on the feeder..what ever works to get the vitamin in him.

There's is a lot of controversy of over supplimenting with Vit A but I feel that if a Chamelion is lacking it there is no way it will get enough to support the body from feeders alone.

I feel supplimenting Vit A should be added to the supplementation schedule that we give our chams now. Dusting feeders w cal everyday. D3 twice a month. Multi once a month. Vitamin A once a month. However there isn't a lot of proof out there regarding supplimenting with Vit A. I personally feel that it plays a huge part in symptoms of MBD and the immune system especially if the Cham has been regularly supplimented with Vit D, Calcium and a multi Vit but still gets sick. There isn't a lot of proof or research regarding Vit A in reptiles but there is a lot of subject matter about exotic birds and chickens. Birds are the closest living relatives of reptiles and they get all the same diseases and vitamin deficiencies as reptiles so I feel there is a huge correlation between the care of reptiles and birds. Unfortunately a veterinarian can't test for vitamin A deficiency while the Cham is alive. Unfortunately, (I was told by my veterinarian) because Vit A is stored in the liver usually the deficiency can only be found through an autopsy and by then it's too late.

Im sorry this was long winded and I'm sure that I didn't quote the processes of Vit A in a chams system perfectly. But it's a quick summery of little bits and pieces of research that I have compiled to form my opinion about supplimenting with Vit A and I have seen great results in my chams. Hope it helps you too

 

[KLowery88]

It can take a bit of time depending on how deficient he is. Add vitamin A gradually and watch him closely because too much can cause hypervitaminosis A.....

I don't mind long winded at all! I used the same method you did with a gel tablet and I have plenty left over so I'll try giving him another small dose today. Like you said, I want to be careful and not oversupplement. Since I'm not entirely sure it's what is causing the issues, I'll be cautious about it.

I'm probably going to send that information to my vet to see what he thinks. I'm currently trying to get a hold of that article from the Journal of Herpetological Medicine and Surgery that was quoted in that web article you linked to see what other information it might have.

 

[JaxyGirl]

I don't mind long winded at all! I used the same method you did with a gel tablet and I have plenty left over so I'll try giving him another small dose today. Like you said, I want to be careful and not oversupplement. Since I'm not entirely sure it's what is causing the issues, I'll be cautious about it.

I'm probably going to send that information to my vet to see what he thinks. I'm currently trying to get a hold of that article from the Journal of Herpetological Medicine and Surgery that was quoted in that web article you linked to see what other information it might have.

Definitely ask your vet. He might actually have Vit A drops to give to you. I'll see what Articles I have also and forward them to you.
Also another food for thought..is I also started giving my chams probiotics (good bacteria)
I did a bunch of research about it first. Since I started giving it to my chams and bearded dragons they have had great poops. Lack of probiotics is one of the leading causes of death in baby chicks. Because without the good bacteria in their guts to keep out the bad bacteria they get sick and weak and can't fight off infection. The bad bacteria takes over the gut leading to all types of problem with digestion and food absorption which leads to Vit deficiency which leads to other problems. Same thing happens in humans. Also what's interesting is that the probiotic bacteria found in the intestines of reptiles and birds are the exact same ones found in humans. There is a paper about giving probiotics to iguanas to prevent salmonella. Salmonella is a bad bacteria which flurishes in the gut. because they don't have They started giving the Iguanas probiotics and the Salmonella disappeared or became vertually undetectable.
I'll see if I can find it.

 

[KLowery88]

Definitely ask your vet. He might actually have Vit A drops to give to you. I'll see what Articles I have also and forward them to you.
Also another food for thought..is I also started giving my chams probiotics (good bacteria)....

Thanks again, that would be great. I've also been searching around for probiotics as he had been on antibiotics for quite some time because of the growth on his mouth and then his tail being amputated, but wasn't sure which ones would be good for reptiles. I think Reptoboost was one I saw.

 

[Matt Vanilla Gorilla]

The only thing I can think of is hydrate well!

 

[JaxyGirl]

In my opinion I think that Nutribac would be better because it only contains several types of probiotics and no added vitamins. http://www.mzrproducts.com/ I think you hit on a good point that probiotics are important especially after giving a Cham medications such as Baytril
because not only does it kill the bacteria that caused the infection in the first place it also kills virtually all bacteria in the animal including the good bacteria. This alows bad bacteria found in the cage, feses or on feeders etc. to invade the intestines first before the good bacteria has a chance to grow. Unfortunately, caged lizards living indoors don't seem to have the opportunity to eat probiotics that are found naturally in wild lizards.
I actually use Sav-A-chic probiotics which can be found in any feed store or Tractor Supply store or online. It's a powder that comes in packets of three for about $3.00 each packet mixed with water makes a gallon. I just use a little bit and mix it with water and inject it into Horn Worms. Ive even dampened a cricket cricket and rolled it in the powder and fed it that way. My chams get probiotics once a month.
I also use Sav-A-chic Electrolyte which gives them trace minerals and adds a little extra hydration. Now that we have the heat on the house is a little dryer and it's my little precaution to make sure they're well hydrated through the winter.

http://www.herpcenter.com/green-iguana-care/nutribac-probiotics/

http://www.beautyofbirds.com/Lactobacillus.htm

http://microbiomejournal.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s40168-015-0113-6

http://www.everythingreptile.org/supplements.html

https://www.researchgate.net/file.PostFileLoader.html?id=55190900d685ccac148b45a3&assetKey=AS:273747011932160@1442277781665

 

[KLowery88]

In my opinion I think that Nutribac would be better because it only contains several types of probiotics and no added vitamins....

Thank you for the links. I'll take a look and order later tonight. His appetite is still poor today, so tomorrow I'm going to mix up a bug slurry with a drop of vitamin A. He doesn't have much weight to lose so I'm worried about the little guy.

 

[JaxyGirl]

Thank you for the links. I'll take a look and order later tonight. His appetite is still poor today, so tomorrow I'm going to mix up a bug slurry with a drop of vitamin A. He doesn't have much weight to lose so I'm worried about the little guy.

Best of luck with Monty. He's lucky to have you!!

 

[KLowery88]

Best of luck with Monty. He's lucky to have you!!

He's more lucky to have this forum I think! Without the expertise of everyone here I wouldn't have a clue, lol. I'll do everything I can to get him back to proper health. I've gotten very attached to him over the past weeks.

 

[JaxyGirl]

He's more lucky to have this forum I think! Without the expertise of everyone here I wouldn't have a clue, lol. I'll do everything I can to get him back to proper health. I've gotten very attached to him over the past weeks.

View attachment 150240

Monty is a handsome little man!! He looks very sweet and his colors are really pretty.
Believe me, I know how attached we can become to our chams. They are like members of the family. When my Jacksons died of old age last summer I cried like a baby!! I still miss him so much!
So far you've given Monty every available chance to live a happy and healthy life by taking him to the vet, doing research on your own and thinking a little outside the box. So many people just give up when the answers aren't abvious. I'm sure you will get to the bottom of his health issues and Monty will be feeling better soon

 

[KLowery88]

Monty is a handsome little man!! He looks very sweet and his colors are really pretty.
Believe me, I know how attached we can become to our chams. They are like members of the family....

I agree, he is a pretty little guy! I'm sorry to hear about your Jackson's. Seems like one of the worst things about chameleons is how short their lives are, even with proper care.

Monty still has no interest in eating. I gave him a bug slurry yesterday of a few roaches, and added superworms and roaches to his two feeder cups this morning to see if he'll go for them. The probiotic is on its way, as are some hornworms to see if those will tempt him a bit more. He's moving around and basking, and his colors look relaxed. He isn't dark or stressed looking. If he hasn't eaten anything from his feeder cups today, I'll give him some more bug slurry tomorrow. Hoping the probiotic gets here by the end of the week.