Pygmy Paludarium

[insert name here]

I am building a pauldarium setup in my 80 gallon tank. I am planning on having about 12 inch deep water with chunks of wood sticking out. I also am builiding a slate platfrom that willl come out from the back wall which i will rest plants, branches, etc. on. My question is would I be able to put pygs in there given they had plenty of climbing branches and vines without worrying about them getting in the water?

 

[Woodinville]

It sounds like an awesome set up. Probably not a good idea for pygs though. These guys live in damp mountainous areas, as opposed to lowland bogs or pond terrain. Do some more research, but from what I've heard, by putting them in a water environment you could risk death by drowning.

 

[Brad Ramsey]

Not a good environment for them. If you want to keep pygmies you need to create a habitat that is as close to the natural forest floor as possible.
Additionally, if you are building an environment like this, I would assume it is for some other type of animal ... housing pygmies with any animal other than the same species of pygmy is a really bad idea.
Keep it pure (one species per environment) and create enclosures that are appropriate for the species you will be keeping.
-Brad

 

[insert name here]

I was also going to have mudskippers in the water. So even if I had a platform with a substrate and leaves on it the setup would be risky to say the least?

 

[Brad Ramsey]

To say the least.
Mud skippers (very cool animals by the way) in their own enclosure and pygmy leaf chameleons in theirs.
These animals would not naturally live in the same environment.

-Brad

 

[insert name here]

I hate to start a debate or be annoying but the mudskippers would keep to there water, sand bank, and driftwood while the chameleons kept to the branches. I just hoped that they would benefit from the humidity. I fully understand different species requirements but they are kind of seperate habitats within the same tank. I am BY NO MEANS and expert at all. I just want to create an interesting ecosystem. Thanks for all the help also.

 

[Brad Ramsey]

No debate ... I will say, however, that an important element in pygmy husbandry is allowing the enclosure to completely dry out between mistings.
Will you be able to achieve this?

-Brad

 

[Zen Reptiles]

If there were lots of escape routes out of the water, they can swim for very short distances. They puff their body up with air to stay afloat (however, if they don't get a chance to do this in mid-air, they'll sink like a rock).

It definitely would be risky.

I would recommend some dart frogs, or day geckos, or both!

Of course, this really depends on how much floor space you have, what species you get, etc.

As for pygmies, I'd say that ultimately it is a bad idea for that large of a water area.

 

[insert name here]

The drying out between mistings is a good point. When I recently kept cichlids in the tank I would usually leave the canopy open at night to keep the moisture levels inside from going crazy and growing funky stuff. I dont know if that would allow enough drying though. I was also considering dart frogs.

 

[blackbetty]

I got the same lecture for having different species of frogs int he same cage.. I have 2 cricket frogs from a creek and a red eye tree frog..they have co existed for about 9 months together now and are doing great.. But because they wouldnt "normally" exist, I was told this is unacceptable. I say if they have SIMILAR systems and you are able to maintain temps, humidity, and as close to their natural environment as possible, why not give it a go? People have to learn by trying or nothing would ever be known, right.. I would just be weary of the chams possibly drowning if they fall or venture. Id o not know what mudskippers are, but hope that their diet wouldnt involve a pygmy if it was readily available.. Good luck to ya.

 

[insert name here]

Well to blackbetty, mudskippers are fish capable of terrestrial life. They move on land by using modified pectoral fins to push themselves forward. They actaully spend nearly 90% of their time on land yet are still fish and breath water not air. They are quite interesting and will hope into your hand to grab a little worm or whatever of some sort. Their main diet is crickets and small fish. No worries about them eating chams. I guess I have an obvious question I should have asked earlier. Do chameleons actually fall that often? I guess that might be the deciding factor.

 

[Syn]

Healthy chameleons should not fall if they have enough to hold onto.

 

[Julirs]

Pygmies fall and topple easier than other chams. I would NEVER put them where they are over water.

 

[Syn]

Pygmies fall and topple easier than other chams. I would NEVER put them where they are over water.

I've been told they can hold onto things pretty easily, for the most part, but I guess I was misinformed - sorry about that!

 

[insert name here]

why is it that they fall easier?

 

[Julirs]

They are a bit top heavy, with tiny feet and skinny legs.

 

[insert name here]

Yeah, I can definately see what you mean being top heavy. Thanks for all the info. Any other input is appreciated whether its is about pygmys other any paludarium suggestions.

 

[kenya]

I would not put pygs in your paludarium (I would LOVE to build a paludarium by the way). Pygmy chams aren't really arboreal at all- they are woody forest floor dwellers. They don't live in a very moist or lush environment...they live in somewhat dry woodsy areas with lots of twigs, leaf litter, and no moss, really. Your tank would be rather dangerous and too moist for a pyg in my opinion. I do think that a larger mudskipper would snack on a pyg if given the chance. I think some house geckos or day geckos would work well for you.

As for blackbetty's comment about her frogs, it may be working out for you but it is generally a bad idea because the introduced frogs are wild and you never know what they may be carrying as far as communicable disease and parasites go. You also may be keeping an endangered species...since they are native frogs, they are protected (even if not endangered) and really should be left in the wild. Just my thoughts on the matter.

Insert, can we see a pic of your paludarium? I really love them and could spend all day drooling over a nice tank. What kind of bugs do you have culturing in there?

 

[Zen Reptiles]

Blackbetty, why on earth are you keeping wild frogs???????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

They should be left out there to breed, did you know we are facing a mass extinction with all amphibian life?

Look up the chytrid fungus.

Although all the publicity is going to the chytrid fungus, habitat loss and pollution (dumping waste chemicals) is the main cause of this mass extinction.

Also.....if your wild frogs did have chytrid (it is slowly spreading across America now)...they could have infected your red eye..which could have lead you taking it to a vet.......which could have lead to infecting other frogs........which is not good.

HOWEVER! If you are breeding them for re-release, then I commend you, because doing that should be compulsory by law for all people.

It's actually a huge problem.

But really...keeping wild frogs and CB together is very, very silly.

Anyways, if you want to keep dart frogs, head on over to www.dendroboard.com

 

[ggazonas]

Becareful about putting certain species of darts in a paladurium. There are some that cannot swim well and will dorwn in a short period of time.

Also I wouldn't mix darts and day geckos together. You will not have enough air circulation or ventilation fo the day geckos. The humidity need for the darts will be too high for the day geckos and could cause respiratory infections or other problems.