Pulled tail shed.

Robyn.lux

Robyn.lux

Member
Hi all.
My panther cham shed a few days a go, he's still juvenile (5 months old).
He still had some left on the end of his tail, I'd read on a forum here that it could cut circulation, so last night I decided to take a look. I'd bathed it in warm water and was helping it along with my bamboo exo terra tweezers, being careful not to pull. My cat then did something she never does and tried to jump up to the viv. My instinct kicked in to move her away. Doing so ripped the shed from his tail. It definitely caused him pain as he scuttled away really quickly.
He's not moved all morning and has resumed his dark colours.
I've checked his tail and to me it seems okay but I am completely new to this. Is there anything I should look for in terms of seeing if the shed being ripped off has damaged or hurt him in anyway?
I feel so guilty and in future I will make sure the cat is out of the room when I'm opening his viv up. Usually she is really uninterested in him, maybe she just got curious, I don't know. Please don't be harsh with me (some people have been with me about various things) this is all new to me and I just want what's best for him. My husbandry is bang on, so I know he's okay in that respect.
 
Robyn.lux said:
Hi all.
My panther cham shed a few days a go, he's still juvenile (5 months old).
He still had some left on the end of his tail, I'd read on a forum here that it could cut circulation, so last night I decided to take a look. I'd bathed it in warm water and was helping it along with my bamboo exo terra tweezers, being careful not to pull. My cat then did something she never does and tried to jump up to the viv. My instinct kicked in to move her away. Doing so ripped the shed from his tail. It definitely caused him pain as he scuttled away really quickly.
He's not moved all morning and has resumed his dark colours.
I've checked his tail and to me it seems okay but I am completely new to this. Is there anything I should look for in terms of seeing if the shed being ripped off has damaged or hurt him in anyway?
I feel so guilty and in future I will make sure the cat is out of the room when I'm opening his viv up. Usually she is really uninterested in him, maybe she just got curious, I don't know. Please don't be harsh with me (some people have been with me about various things) this is all new to me and I just want what's best for him. My husbandry is bang on, so I know he's okay in that respect.
Click to expand...
If your husbandry was bang on you wouldn’t be pulling skin off your Cham, especially since he’s so young.
 
Brodybreaux25 said:
If your husbandry was bang on you wouldn’t be pulling skin off your Cham, especially since he’s so young.
Click to expand...
It was literally just the very tip of his tail. I was trying to help it along so it didn't cut off circulation. It's not uncommon for chams shed to get suck in parts, I've seen no end of posts on here about it with both young and old chams.
His humidity, heat, food, hydration etc is all exactly how it needs to be.
It's not a question of my husbandry, I'm asking if there is anything I need to look for in regards to if any damage was done. If you can't help with that question, no need to respond.
 
Young chams should shed very quickly and 100% unassisted. If they don’t it is a sure sign that there is a problem in your husbandry somewhere. Most likely supplements, humidity, or gutload.

The reason that patch of shed was still stuck to your Cham is because it wasn’t ready to come off yet(obviously). That means it was still living skin and by default, still attached to his nervous system. I’m sure it did hurt.

The only time you should intervene on a shed is if a cuff develops and is cutting off circulation to a limb. In my experience dry skin is far more fragile than wet skin. By adding moisture back to shed skin you are returning elasticity to it, that means it streatches when rubbed and doesn’t just tear off like it should.

As far as husbandry goes this is a minor mistake, no big deal, I’ve done worse. Once the shed is done just monitor the area you tore off and make sure it doesn’t get infected. If you want you could put a dab of neosporin on it.
 
Last edited:
So now let’s see just how bang on your husbandry is, you know the drill.

Chameleon Info:

◦ Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?

◦ Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?

◦ Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?

◦ Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?

◦ Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?

◦ Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?

◦ History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.


Cage Info:

◦ Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?

◦ Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?

◦ Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?

◦ Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?

◦ Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?

◦ Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?

◦ Location - Where are you geographically located?


Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.


--------------


Please Note:

1 The more details you provide the better and more accurate help you will receive.

2 Photos can be very helpful.
 
Brodybreaux25 said:
Young chams should shed very quickly and 100% unassisted. If they don’t it is a sure sign that there is a problem in your husbandry somewhere. Most likely supplements, humidity, or gutload.

The reason that patch of shed was still stuck to your Cham is because it wasn’t ready to come off yet(obviously). That means it was still living skin and by default, still attached to his nervous system. I’m sure it did hurt.

The only time you should intervene on a shed is if a cuff develops and is cutting off circulation to a limb. In my experience dry skin is far more fragile than wet skin. By adding moisture back to shed skin you are returning elasticity to it, that means it streatches when rubbed and doesn’t just tear off like it should.

As far as husbandry goes this is a minor mistake, no bid deal, I’ve done worse. Once the shed is done just monitor the area you tore off and make sure it doesn’t get infected. If you want you could put a dab of neosporin on it.
Click to expand...


Thank you, I appreciate the help.
I had read a few threads on here that said to help it along so followed the advice. I did soak it in warm water first. It was completely my own fault for not putting the cat away whilst I was doing something delicate with him.
But now I know for next time. He probably struggled with that last bit due to him already being stressed out from his move from the breeder to mine, his new viv etc. I was giving him warm mists to help the shedding, was that a mistake?
Well, it all came off apart from that bit bit it'll be good to know for next time.
I know it hurt him and I feel awful.
I'll take a look at his gut loads. I took your advice before with his supplements and I am in all day every day with him so his humidity is always within the right scale.
 
Brodybreaux25 said:
So now let’s see just how bang on your husbandry is, you know the drill.

Chameleon Info:

◦ Your Chameleon - Masoala panther chameleon, 5 month old male, had him one week and 4 days.

◦ Handling - I do not handle him.

◦ Feeding - he's fed a mixture of brown crickets and locusts with the occasional wax worm. All gut loaded with a variety of fruit, vegetables, seeds, oats. I am soon going to be making my own homemade jelly gutload as advised by someone who I would call a veteran and whom I trust impeccably. He's cup fed in the morning, he likes his privacy so I cover his viv and leave him to it, some also are left to free roam and all are removed before lights out.

◦ Supplements - Exo terra calcium without d3, every day. Calcium with d3 will be twice a month and a mutivit twice a month.

◦ Watering - I mist by hand with a bottle, for five minutes 3x a day and have a dripper running pretty much constantly. I always see him have a good long drink in the morning.

◦ Fecal Description - Colour of droppings brown and clear urate. He has been tested and once he is more settled I will arrange a yearly check with my reptile vet.

◦ History - Nothing to note other than him being stressed from the move.


Cage Info:

◦ Cage Type - The cage is glass, exo terra 90x45x90. Bioactive bottom. Exo terra moss vines and lots of natural wood for climbing.

◦ Lighting - All exo terra, UVB150 30w 90cm. Ceramic heat lamp 150w. I do plan to swap the ceramic for Mercury Vapour soon but keep ceramic for extra heat in winter. He has a 12 hour light cycle from 8.30-20.30.

◦ Temperature - I have three temperature probes. Basking at 29-31°c, ambient 23-25°c and floor 19-20.5°c. His night temp never drops below 18.5°c but usually sits around 22°c.

◦ Humidity - Always kept between 60 and 85% but it rarely drops below 75%. I maintain humidity by monitoring it all day. I use an exo terra hygrometer placed in the middle of his tank.

◦ Plants - currently I have two live pothos, I plan to buy some umbrella plants soon.

◦ Placement - My cage is placed away from vents, windows etc in a low traffic area, around 3ft off of the floor. Perhaps not high enough but I always crouch low or even kneel when approaching his viv so he feels higher up. It was a matter of placing him safely in regards of the cat, though they seem uninterested with each other. Possibility of moving his viv to a higher perch once he is more settled as I am loathe to cause him any more stress at present.

◦ Location - I am based in the UK.


Current Problem - Current problem is written above.
He has since had a drink, eaten and also moved to his basking spot so he seems to be over it.


--------------


Please Note:

1 The more details you provide the better and more accurate help you will receive.

2 Photos can be very helpful.
Click to expand...
 
Robyn.lux said:
Thank you, I appreciate the help.
I had read a few threads on here that said to help it along so followed the advice. I did soak it in warm water first. It was completely my own fault for not putting the cat away whilst I was doing something delicate with him.
But now I know for next time. He probably struggled with that last bit due to him already being stressed out from his move from the breeder to mine, his new viv etc. I was giving him warm mists to help the shedding, was that a mistake?
Well, it all came off apart from that bit bit it'll be good to know for next time.
I know it hurt him and I feel awful.
I'll take a look at his gut loads. I took your advice before with his supplements and I am in all day every day with him so his humidity is always within the right scale.
Click to expand...
...To mist or not to mist during a shed... this is debatable, my experience says no misting. But is it 100% wrong to mist to help things along? No, It depends on who you ask. I’m sure other keepers will be along soon to weigh in!

And I know my style can be a bit abrasive but I promise I mean no harm and won’t lead you astray...
 
Brodybreaux25 said:
...To mist or not to mist during a shed... this is debatable, my experience says no misting. But is it 100% wrong to mist to help things along? No, It depends on who you ask. I’m sure other keepers will be along soon to weigh in!

And I know my style can be a bit abrasive but I promise I mean no harm and won’t lead you astray...
Click to expand...


I'll admit you do come across as being a little harsh at times. But if that's who you are, that's who you are and I appreciate your help all the same.
 
Brodybreaux25 said:
So now let’s see just how bang on your husbandry is, you know the drill.

Chameleon Info:

◦ Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?

◦ Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?

◦ Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?

◦ Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?

◦ Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?

◦ Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?

◦ History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.


Cage Info:

◦ Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?

◦ Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?

◦ Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?

◦ Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?

◦ Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?

◦ Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?

◦ Location - Where are you geographically located?


Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.


--------------


Please Note:

1 The more details you provide the better and more accurate help you will receive.

2 Photos can be very helpful.
Click to expand...



Chameleon Info:

◦ Your Chameleon - Masoala panther chameleon, 5 month old male, had him one week and 4 days.

◦ Handling - I do not handle him.

◦ Feeding - he's fed a mixture of brown crickets and locusts with the occasional wax worm. All gut loaded with a variety of fruit, vegetables, seeds, oats. I am soon going to be making my own homemade jelly gutload as advised by someone who I would call a veteran and whom I trust impeccably. He's cup fed in the morning, he likes his privacy so I cover his viv and leave him to it, some also are left to free roam and all are removed before lights out.

◦ Supplements - Exo terra calcium without d3, every day. Calcium with d3 will be twice a month and a mutivit twice a month.

◦ Watering - I mist by hand with a bottle, for five minutes 3x a day and have a dripper running pretty much constantly. I always see him have a good long drink in the morning.

◦ Fecal Description - Colour of droppings brown and clear urate. He has been tested and once he is more settled I will arrange a yearly check with my reptile vet.

◦ History - Nothing to note other than him being stressed from the move.


Cage Info:

◦ Cage Type - The cage is glass, exo terra 90x45x90. Bioactive bottom. Exo terra moss vines and lots of natural wood for climbing.

◦ Lighting - All exo terra, UVB150 30w 90cm. Ceramic heat lamp 150w. I do plan to swap the ceramic for Mercury Vapour soon but keep ceramic for extra heat in winter. He has a 12 hour light cycle from 8.30-20.30.

◦ Temperature - I have three temperature probes. Basking at 29-31°c, ambient 23-25°c and floor 19-20.5°c. His night temp never drops below 18.5°c but usually sits around 22°c.

◦ Humidity - Always kept between 60 and 85% but it rarely drops below 75%. I maintain humidity by monitoring it all day. I use an exo terra hygrometer placed in the middle of his tank.

◦ Plants - currently I have two live pothos, I plan to buy some umbrella plants soon.

◦ Placement - My cage is placed away from vents, windows etc in a low traffic area, around 3ft off of the floor. Perhaps not high enough but I always crouch low or even kneel when approaching his viv so he feels higher up. It was a matter of placing him safely in regards of the cat, though they seem uninterested with each other. Possibility of moving his viv to a higher perch once he is more settled as I am loathe to cause him any more stress at present.

◦ Location - I am based in the UK.


Current Problem - Current problem is written above.
He has since had a drink, eaten and also moved to his basking spot so he seems to be over it.
 
Robyn.lux said:
Chameleon Info:

◦ Your Chameleon - Masoala panther chameleon, 5 month old male, had him one week and 4 days.

◦ Handling - I do not handle him.

◦ Feeding - he's fed a mixture of brown crickets and locusts with the occasional wax worm. All gut loaded with a variety of fruit, vegetables, seeds, oats. I am soon going to be making my own homemade jelly gutload as advised by someone who I would call a veteran and whom I trust impeccably. He's cup fed in the morning, he likes his privacy so I cover his viv and leave him to it, some also are left to free roam and all are removed before lights out.

◦ Supplements - Exo terra calcium without d3, every day. Calcium with d3 will be twice a month and a mutivit twice a month.

◦ Watering - I mist by hand with a bottle, for five minutes 3x a day and have a dripper running pretty much constantly. I always see him have a good long drink in the morning.

◦ Fecal Description - Colour of droppings brown and clear urate. He has been tested and once he is more settled I will arrange a yearly check with my reptile vet.

◦ History - Nothing to note other than him being stressed from the move.


Cage Info:

◦ Cage Type - The cage is glass, exo terra 90x45x90. Bioactive bottom. Exo terra moss vines and lots of natural wood for climbing.

◦ Lighting - All exo terra, UVB150 30w 90cm. Ceramic heat lamp 150w. I do plan to swap the ceramic for Mercury Vapour soon but keep ceramic for extra heat in winter. He has a 12 hour light cycle from 8.30-20.30.

◦ Temperature - I have three temperature probes. Basking at 29-31°c, ambient 23-25°c and floor 19-20.5°c. His night temp never drops below 18.5°c but usually sits around 22°c.

◦ Humidity - Always kept between 60 and 85% but it rarely drops below 75%. I maintain humidity by monitoring it all day. I use an exo terra hygrometer placed in the middle of his tank.

◦ Plants - currently I have two live pothos, I plan to buy some umbrella plants soon.

◦ Placement - My cage is placed away from vents, windows etc in a low traffic area, around 3ft off of the floor. Perhaps not high enough but I always crouch low or even kneel when approaching his viv so he feels higher up. It was a matter of placing him safely in regards of the cat, though they seem uninterested with each other. Possibility of moving his viv to a higher perch once he is more settled as I am loathe to cause him any more stress at present.

◦ Location - I am based in the UK.


Current Problem - Current problem is written above.
He has since had a drink, eaten and also moved to his basking spot so he seems to be over it.
Click to expand...
Great, except people here will call out your use of a CFL UVB light. There’s no way it could have done any damage within one week, but it’s suggested to swap to a linear fluorescent bulb. Not a huge deal in the short term but make sure you get that switched out relatively soon.

(If I remember correctly the new CFLs don’t cause eye damage anymore, but still lack the efficiency and spread of the linear. So switch anyway.)
 
Deo32 said:
Great, except people here will call out your use of a CFL UVB light. There’s no way it could have done any damage within one week, but it’s suggested to swap to a linear fluorescent bulb. Not a huge deal in the short term but make sure you get that switched out relatively soon.

(If I remember correctly the new CFLs don’t cause eye damage anymore, but still lack the efficiency and spread of the linear. So switch anyway.)
Click to expand...

I have to admit I've not heard anything about the UVB bulbs being a problem? Have you more information on this?
 
Deo32 said:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/why-are-cfl-uvbs-bad-for-chams-eyes.165413/

Here’s a recent thread on it. There’s a lot more info on it elsewhere but in summary CFL bulbs are just worse than linear tubes. I personally dont think it’s a huge issue if you keep the bulb for a bit longer but I would switch when I had the opportunity.
Click to expand...

So strange, I got this bulb from the recommendation of a guy who actually keeps chameleons. I will certainly do more reading in to it. Thank you.
 
I know you went over this but I'll give my advise anyway. If you do have retained shed it is best to let it come off on its own. If it is showing signs of strangling a limb or extremity then that would be the only time to intervene. If you do use something soft to tease it off like a cotton tip applicator (Qtip). Never pull as you know. Some people recommend fine crochet hooks that have blunt ends to break the ligature and restore circulation. I don't soak the area first but do use a damp qtip just because the shed seems to stick to it better. Neosporin is safe to use on chameleons just don't put it near the eyes or mouth with out the recommendation of your veterinarian.
Your guy is probably just a bit afraid of you now and will need time to begin to trust you again.
 
Deo32 said:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/why-are-cfl-uvbs-bad-for-chams-eyes.165413/

Here’s a recent thread on it. There’s a lot more info on it elsewhere but in summary CFL bulbs are just worse than linear tubes. I personally dont think it’s a huge issue if you keep the bulb for a bit longer but I would switch when I had the opportunity.
Click to expand...

Can you please recommend and link me to a linear bulb suitable for my 90x45x90 viv? Sorry, I probably come across as really dense but I've just been looking on Google and the one I already have keeps coming up.
 
JacksJill said:
I know you went over this but I'll give my advise anyway. If you do have retained shed it is best to let it come off on its own. If it is showing signs of strangling a limb or extremity then that would be the only time to intervene. If you do use something soft to tease it off like a cotton tip applicator (Qtip). Never pull as you know. Some people recommend fine crochet hooks that have blunt ends to break the ligature and restore circulation. I don't soak the area first but do use a damp qtip just because the shed seems to stick to it better. Neosporin is safe to use on chameleons just don't put it near the eyes or mouth with out the recommendation of your veterinarian.
Your guy is probably just a bit afraid of you now and will need time to begin to trust you again.
Click to expand...

Thank you. Yes it seems the trust building begins again. His tail seems fine so I am not worried anymore but of course it is really good to know for the future and I appreciate your help.
 
Robyn.lux said:
Can you please recommend and link me to a linear bulb suitable for my 90x45x90 viv? Sorry, I probably come across as really dense but I've just been looking on Google and the one I already have keeps coming up.
Click to expand...
https://www.pangeareptile.com/store...MI9ou2hcmD3QIV1bbACh06cQw1EAQYAiABEgJJbvD_BwE

Arcadia has the best bulbs. Pick the size you prefer and then buy a T5 HO Fixture for that size.

Or the zoomed T5 HO fixtures which come with a free reprising 5.0 bulb (still ok but not as good as Arcadia). https://www.petmountain.com/product...MI3KyFnsqD3QIVgbfACh0RRgeFEAQYASABEgIsFfD_BwE
 
Deo32 said:
https://www.pangeareptile.com/store...MI9ou2hcmD3QIV1bbACh06cQw1EAQYAiABEgJJbvD_BwE

Arcadia has the best bulbs. Pick the size you prefer and then buy a T5 HO Fixture for that size.

Or the zoomed T5 HO fixtures which come with a free reprising 5.0 bulb (still ok but not as good as Arcadia). https://www.petmountain.com/product...MI3KyFnsqD3QIVgbfACh0RRgeFEAQYASABEgIsFfD_BwE
Click to expand...

It seems they're a bit harder to get in the UK. I am going to a reptile centre tomorrow so will have an ask. Thanks so much for the info.
 
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