Probable coccidia again. Causes?

[PlanetRemulak]

I don’t know for sure yet, but I’ve been through this before. Went through this with Beau just before he turned one year old. One of his poops looked *slightly* soft to me last week, but I had been feeding a lot of silkworms. I figured I’d monitor the next poop rather than panic. Fast forward to today, Beau threw up this morning. It looked more like regurgitation - what came up was solid and looked like wads of undigested food. I got him to eat one surinam roach shortly after just to see if he would eat, but he didn’t immediately take it from my hand (like he usually does). Caught him basking with at least one eye closed.. then came an extremely runny, foul smelling poop. It was so runny, it was essentially water. I could only really collect his urate as there was nothing solid to grab, and I figured enough watery poop had been on it to test for parasites. He’s been basking all day, lethargic for sure. All signs pointing to parasites. Gutted doesn’t even begin to describe, but I’m just trying to keep a cool head about it. Hoping to hear back from a vet and take him in as soon as tomorrow. If not tomorrow, we have an appointment for Friday for sure.

Wondering where I went wrong.

I’m sure I’ve made a stupid decision somewhere down the line that ultimately resulted in my chameleon getting sick again. I’ve heard/read that chameleons all carry a certain degree of parasites and/or coccidia oocysts. Usually isn’t a big deal unless there is a stress event, in which case the oocysts jump at the opportunity to reproduce. Accurate? Beau has been a perpetually hungry, healthy male for the last two years of his life. I’ve felt like my husbandry is pretty spot on, or at least it’s worked for him. I’m not sure what could have put him under enough stress for this to happen. I did recently get a new 4 month old chameleon from a reputable breeder. This little guy left a couple baby surinam roaches behind a week or so ago, and I didn’t want to waste them. I threw them back in the bin. Why, why did I do that?? Could this be the potential cause? My newest little guy has had normal poops/urates, is not showing any outward signs of illness.

Again, I still have not yet been told that it is absolutely coccidia, but I do remember very well what coccidia looked like. For tonight, the one thing I know for absolute certain is that Beau is sick. He looks alert, but I know how it goes with chameleons masking illnesses. I’m hoping he doesn’t take a major dive before Friday if I’m not able to get him to a vet any sooner.

For anyone that’s dealt with this before, would you recommend tossing the entire colony of bugs? Kills me to get rid of surinams but I can’t go back and change it now

 

[elizaann2]

Oh no I am so sorry to hear you are going through this! I have not dealt with coccidia myself but have experienced my panther having a really nasty parasite called entamoeba invaden, which, from previous research is a fairly similar parasite to coccidia.

Regarding your sanitization:
- Did you throw away all plants, sticks and any organic materials when your guy was sick last time?
- How did you sanitize your enclosure?
- Did you follow any procedures to ensure your hands did not come in contact with the parasite or oocysts to spread it elsewhere?
- How long ago did your boy have this parasite? How many fecals did you test to ensure he was clean from them before?

For me personally, if those were my roaches, I would not feed them off or touch them until you know for sure what your sick chameleon has. I am going to guess that most likely you will need to throw away your roaches and start a new colony, whatever parasite your baby has, they very well could be carrying now.

Here are some podcasts from the Chameleon Academy that helped me when my boy had his parasite:
Episode 19
Episode 71
Episode "Topics in Parasitism for Chameleon Keepers"

Sending you prayers for your scaley baby, these kind of parasites are really rough and its a very stressful situation. You are not alone, we are all here to support you through this process. Please let us know what the vet says and the results of the fecal.

 

[janjan20]

Have you had a fecal on the new cham? If not I would do that…as far as tossing the whole colony, definitely need to find out what’s going on, I would not feed any. My oldest cham had coccidia when I got him and he has been clear for some years now but do to paranoia and having other chameleons, I give him Reptaid (prophylactic) every quarter. Did Beau have at least 2 clear fecals at least 3 months apart (or longer)?

 

[PlanetRemulak]

Oh no I am so sorry to hear you are going through this! I have not dealt with coccidia myself but have experienced my panther having a really nasty parasite called entamoeba invaden, which, from previous research is a fairly similar parasite to coccidia.

Regarding your sanitization:
- Did you throw away all plants, sticks and any organic materials when your guy was sick last time?
- How did you sanitize your enclosure?
- Did you follow any procedures to ensure your hands did not come in contact with the parasite or oocysts to spread it elsewhere?
- How long ago did your boy have this parasite? How many fecals did you test to ensure he was clean from them before?

For me personally, if those were my roaches, I would not feed them off or touch them until you know for sure what your sick chameleon has. I am going to guess that most likely you will need to throw away your roaches and start a new colony, whatever parasite your baby has, they very well could be carrying now.

Here are some podcasts from the Chameleon Academy that helped me when my boy had his parasite:
Episode 19
Episode 71
Episode "Topics in Parasitism for Chameleon Keepers"

Sending you prayers for your scaley baby, these kind of parasites are really rough and its a very stressful situation. You are not alone, we are all here to support you through this process. Please let us know what the vet says and the results of the fecal.

Oh jeeze, I’d never even heard of entamoeba Invaden prior to today. Do you have any idea where your boy might have picked it up from? I’m dropping a fecal sample off at a vet tomorrow morning. A vet friend was kind enough to give me 3 CC’s of ponazuril to hold onto just in case it IS coccidia.

To answer your questions:

- I got rid of all existing branches and plants in Beau’s cage after he tested positive. I replaced everything with flukers vines, fake plants and a couple new branches that I had sanitized. I began treatment first, and then the next day I completely gutted his cage. This was in early 2022. he’d had a couple of negative fecals, but several of the branches that were in his cage while he was recovering are in his current cage. Even though it’s been two years, I’m wondering if some oocysts were hiding in them.. they’re porous. In hindsight, I don’t know why I did that.

- I was keeping him in a 24 x 24 x 48 Reptibreeze the first time he tested positive. Per our resident angel @Beman’s advice, I completely emptied the cage and took it outside. I sprayed the entire cage down with 40 volume peroxide (I don’t recall having diluted it, it just put it in a spray bottle and sprayed the whole thing down). I let it sit, then scrubbed every single side - front, back, left and right, as well as the top - down with Dawn dish soap and water. I repeated this exact process a week later. By Beau’s third clean fecal, I put him in his newly set up Tamura cage with live plants and branches.

- I washed my hands every single time after I would touch the latches on either of my chameleon’s cages. I continued to wipe the outside of his cage with diluted 40 volume peroxide for about a month after he tested positive. I wash my hands frequently to begin with, so I am still in the habit of washing in between touching the latches on cage doors. I haven’t been quite so worried about parasites since that last fecal came back clean in 2022 though. Between October of last year and now, I may have forgot to wash hands in between touching cage doors

- He had coccidia in early 2022. I began treatment as soon as I noticed symptoms (eyes closed during the day and diarrhea). I don’t believe he had it for very long as I got 3 clean fecals back. His most recent fecal came back clean in October of last year.

The first time it happened, I had run out of feeders but had some coming in the mail. I needed food to hold Beau over in the mean time, so I ran Petco and got a container of crickets. About two days after I fed the Petco crickets, the runny poops started. He tested positive for coccidia the day after he had diarrhea. I can’t prove that it came from those crickets, I just suspect that it did. I noticed in October of 2021 he had his eyes closed during the day, so this was about 4 months before the coccidia infection. I was new to panther chameleons then and messed up on supplements. He was getting Herptivite carotene instead of preformed A. I have to wonder if he already a very small load of coccidia, and it became a problem due to immune stress from improper supplementation.

I’m not sure if this is a new instance of coccidia, or if he managed to reinfect himself. Come to think of it, it hasn’t been quite two years just yet, but will be in February 2024.

Have you had a fecal on the new cham? If not I would do that…as far as tossing the whole colony, definitely need to find out what’s going on, I would not feed any. My oldest cham had coccidia when I got him and he has been clear for some years now but do to paranoia and having other chameleons, I give him Reptaid (prophylactic) every quarter. Did Beau have at least 2 clear fecals at least 3 months apart (or longer)?

I will be dropping off a fecal sample tomorrow. How do you administer Reptaid? I hadn’t heard of it prior to today.

Thank you everyone for your help

 

[elizaann2]

Apparently Entamoeba Invaden isn't very common and is mostly found in wild caught animals...specifically snakes..if ever come across. I honestly have no idea where my boy got it. I bought him from a family on KSL who could no longer take care of him. They had a collection, it could have come from an animal in their collection. I also suspect that the family purchased him at a reptile expo where animals are freely handled and I would imagine that parasites are passed around like crazy there...those are just two guesses though, truthfully I'll never know where he got it.

See my response to your answers in bold

- I got rid of all existing branches and plants in Beau’s cage after he tested positive. I replaced everything with flukers vines, fake plants and a couple new branches that I had sanitized. I began treatment first, and then the next day I completely gutted his cage. This was in early 2022. he’d had a couple of negative fecals, but several of the branches that were in his cage while he was recovering are in his current cage. Even though it’s been two years, I’m wondering if some oocysts were hiding in them.. they’re porous. In hindsight, I don’t know why I did that. Oh dear, I would guess without reading further in your comments that this may be the case. The oocysts are VERY hard to get rid of. There is even a study (spoken briefly about in one of the podcasts episodes I shared with you) where they talked about the oocysts being in some kind of bleach or other really hard cleaning chemical and once they oocysts are taken out of the chemical they started to hatch. If they can survive that, they most likely are in the branches from the original enclosure....I am REALLY hoping that we are both wrong though and its not actually coccidia.

- I was keeping him in a 24 x 24 x 48 Reptibreeze the first time he tested positive. Per our resident angel @Beman’s advice, I completely emptied the cage and took it outside. I sprayed the entire cage down with 40 volume peroxide (I don’t recall having diluted it, it just put it in a spray bottle and sprayed the whole thing down). I let it sit, then scrubbed every single side - front, back, left and right, as well as the top - down with Dawn dish soap and water. I repeated this exact process a week later. By Beau’s third clean fecal, I put him in his newly set up Tamura cage with live plants and branches. Fantastic! @Beman is literally the best!

- I washed my hands every single time after I would touch the latches on either of my chameleon’s cages. I continued to wipe the outside of his cage with diluted 40 volume peroxide for about a month after he tested positive. I wash my hands frequently to begin with, so I am still in the habit of washing in between touching the latches on cage doors. I haven’t been quite so worried about parasites since that last fecal came back clean in 2022 though. Between October of last year and now, I may have forgot to wash hands in between touching cage doors. Great! Its a great habit to continue.

- He had coccidia in early 2022. I began treatment as soon as I noticed symptoms (eyes closed during the day and diarrhea). I don’t believe he had it for very long as I got 3 clean fecals back. His most recent fecal came back clean in October of last year. Very good! You for sure want three clean fecals before you declare your baby parasite free. Just checking on this, some people only do one fecal which might not tell you anything.

The first time it happened, I had run out of feeders but had some coming in the mail. I needed food to hold Beau over in the mean time, so I ran Petco and got a container of crickets. About two days after I fed the Petco crickets, the runny poops started. He tested positive for coccidia the day after he had diarrhea. I can’t prove that it came from those crickets, I just suspect that it did. I noticed in October of 2021 he had his eyes closed during the day, so this was about 4 months before the coccidia infection. I was new to panther chameleons then and messed up on supplements. He was getting Herptivite carotene instead of preformed A. I have to wonder if he already a very small load of coccidia, and it became a problem due to immune stress from improper supplementation. It is very possible. I dont know how quickly parasites can affect their host, I am guessing it will take time though. My guess is he had it before the Petco crickets....but similar to my situation we will never really be able to know where it came from. I do know that the big box pet store feeders can commonly come with parasites so just avoid using them at all costs.

I’m not sure if this is a new instance of coccidia, or if he managed to reinfect himself. Come to think of it, it hasn’t been quite two years just yet, but will be in February 2024. Unfortunately coccidia does not need to pass into multiple different species/hosts to grow, mate and lay eggs. Basically if it was still in your enclosure and your guy ate a bug exploring the enclosure and then got eaten he could have reinfected himself. Panthers have an endearing habit of licking branches, if an oocyst is on a branch he could reinfect himself that way as well.

I am not familiar with Reptaid myself, it looks like some kind of liquid immune support for reptiles. Where it is a liquid you will want to make sure that you put it near the back of his mouth, the front of the mouth is where their airways are and you could accidentally aspirate your little guy. I've attached a picture of a chameleon with his mouth open. I circled where his airways are and you want to avoid, the arrow is where you want to aim for. Another idea is if its a thicker liquid you could put it on a feeder and feed that bug to your chameleon.

 

[PlanetRemulak]

Apparently Entamoeba Invaden isn't very common and is mostly found in wild caught animals...specifically snakes..if ever come across. I honestly have no idea where my boy got it. I bought him from a family on KSL who could no longer take care of him. They had a collection, it could have come from an animal in their collection. I also suspect that the family purchased him at a reptile expo where animals are freely handled and I would imagine that parasites are passed around like crazy there...those are just two guesses though, truthfully I'll never know where he got it.

What a nightmare, thank you for sharing your experience! I looked through your posts about it. I can only imagine what your anxiety was like, especially considering that a lot of the initial responses you got were “I haven’t even heard of that parasite.“ Did you have to sanitize your cages with 40 v peroxide as well? I’m so glad your boy pulled through it.

Oh dear, I would guess without reading further in your comments that this may be the case. The oocysts are VERY hard to get rid of. There is even a study (spoken briefly about in one of the podcasts episodes I shared with you) where they talked about the oocysts being in some kind of bleach or other really hard cleaning chemical and once they oocysts are taken out of the chemical they started to hatch. If they can survive that, they most likely are in the branches from the original enclosure....I am REALLY hoping that we are both wrong though and its not actually coccidia.

I am really beating myself up for this one. The pre existing branches didn’t come from the “sick cage” he was in prior to me cleaning it, buuut.. I added like two wooden branches after treatment and sanitization, I guess so he could have some thicker perches. He had just started ponazuril. Of course I can’t guarantee with absolute certainty that there are no oocysts in the pores of the wood, AND that he hasn’t licked them. Doubtful it came from contaminated feeders.. I’ve always cup fed him, so bugs don’t have direct access to his poop. I did catch him attempting to drink from some water that had puddled at the bottom of his cage last week. I mist several times at night instead of fogging, because I can’t get the cage below 69-70 F when the weather is hot (we’re still in the high 80’s/low 90’s). The water at the bottom was from the MistKing going off the night before, and I hadn’t yet had the chance to wipe it down. The only thing that could have contaminated the pooled water was his poop, though. He would have had to already be sick for that to make sense. I’m sorry - not sure why I’m spinning my wheels over this when I don’t even know whether or not coccidia is even the cause of his current problem.

Fantastic! @Beman is literally the best!

Could not agree with you more. She has been such a huge help to me on many occasions.

It is very possible. I dont know how quickly parasites can affect their host, I am guessing it will take time though. My guess is he had it before the Petco crickets....but similar to my situation we will never really be able to know where it came from. I do know that the big box pet store feeders can commonly come with parasites so just avoid using them at all costs.

Again, could not agree with you more. My brother in law ended up working at that same Petco for a while. He confirmed that employees at my store’s location were advised to return uneaten crickets in the beardie tanks to the cricket bin. Whatever wasn’t eaten was put back to be sold. I actually bought the prepackaged container of “Vita Bug” crickets, though. That has me thinking Beau had a small load of oocysts to begin with. Again! I guess it doesn’t really matter currently since I probably won’t know until Friday whether or not it’s parasites.

I am not familiar with Reptaid myself, it looks like some kind of liquid immune support for reptiles. Where it is a liquid you will want to make sure that you put it near the back of his mouth, the front of the mouth is where their airways are and you could accidentally aspirate your little guy. I've attached a picture of a chameleon with his mouth open. I circled where his airways are and you want to avoid, the arrow is where you want to aim for. Another idea is if its a thicker liquid you could put it on a feeder and feed that bug to your chameleon.

I’ll have to look into it, but if it is a liquid, putting it onto a feeder bug to be fed off is a great idea. Thank you for your input!

I have no idea what to make of what happened today. In the near three years that I’ve had Beau, I have never seen him vomit. That didn’t even happen with the first coccidia infection (at least, not that I saw!). On Tuesday, he seemed absolutely fine and eager to come out for some free range time on his orange tree. Today was a very different story. Within maybe two hours, I noticed that his eye turrets began to sink in a bit. He stayed under the basking spot for several hours until I opened his cage door - I wanted to get a good look at him/look for poop to collect. He did appear to perk up a little and crawled over to the front of the cage, but even so he was noticeably lethargic. He didn’t really move after that until lights out. I almost wonder if it isn’t parasites and he ate something toxic when he was outside. If that is the case, obviously I didn’t see it happen. If it‘s not coccidia, I am genuinely concerned that it is something equally as serious or worse. As it stands currently, it’s looking like I won’t be able to get him to a vet until Friday. The vet we’ll be seeing is new, and I was *told* he’s familiar with chameleons.. but I’ve been told that before (only to later find out that I probably knew more about my animal than the doctor he was seen by did). At this point, I am absolutely preparing myself for the possibility of a worst case scenario.

 

[janjan20]

Not much else for me to add, sounds like you did just about everything right and @elizaann2 has given great feedback.

Reptaid was recommended to me when my Cham was too small to start ponazaril. I believe @snitz427 uses it as well. If you purchase it, do keep in mind it is alcohol based so keep your cham hydrated.
This is a link to the Reptaid: https://www.amazon.com/AMBER-NATURALZ-REPTAID-Support-Reptiles/dp/B006X3YHO8

Hoping Beau gets better!!

 

[elizaann2]

What a nightmare, thank you for sharing your experience! I looked through your posts about it. I can only imagine what your anxiety was like, especially considering that a lot of the initial responses you got were “I haven’t even heard of that parasite.“ Did you have to sanitize your cages with 40 v peroxide as well? I’m so glad your boy pulled through it. Oh my gosh it was SUCH a night mare! I cried like every day and literally mentally prepared myself for him to pass. I did not have the confidence that I had the skillset to clear him from the parasite, treat him with medication, keep his health up while he took medications or anything. It was really really rough.
I am really beating myself up for this one. The pre existing branches didn’t come from the “sick cage” he was in prior to me cleaning it, buuut.. I added like two wooden branches after treatment and sanitization, I guess so he could have some thicker perches. He had just started ponazuril. Of course I can’t guarantee with absolute certainty that there are no oocysts in the pores of the wood, AND that he hasn’t licked them. Doubtful it came from contaminated feeders.. I’ve always cup fed him, so bugs don’t have direct access to his poop. I did catch him attempting to drink from some water that had puddled at the bottom of his cage last week. I mist several times at night instead of fogging, because I can’t get the cage below 69-70 F when the weather is hot (we’re still in the high 80’s/low 90’s). The water at the bottom was from the MistKing going off the night before, and I hadn’t yet had the chance to wipe it down. The only thing that could have contaminated the pooled water was his poop, though. He would have had to already be sick for that to make sense. I’m sorry - not sure why I’m spinning my wheels over this when I don’t even know whether or not coccidia is even the cause of his current problem. Ok that makes sense, the branches came from your 'quarantine set up'. Its possible they may have still been infected though. You are right though, at this time you don't know what it is. Try not to beat yourself up over this, I know its hard but just try to take things one step at a time. Right now we are waiting for the results to come back from his fecal. If you have water pooling on your enclosure floor I would look into ways to drain that a little better so you dont have that issue and if he was going down to drink that says he was pretty thirsty. You may want to add an extra mist session in your hydration strategy so he can get what he needs.

Again, could not agree with you more. My brother in law ended up working at that same Petco for a while. He confirmed that employees at my store’s location were advised to return uneaten crickets in the beardie tanks to the cricket bin. Whatever wasn’t eaten was put back to be sold. I actually bought the prepackaged container of “Vita Bug” crickets, though. That has me thinking Beau had a small load of oocysts to begin with. Again! I guess it doesn’t really matter currently since I probably won’t know until Friday whether or not it’s parasites. Oh my gosh that is absolutely terrible.

I have no idea what to make of what happened today. In the near three years that I’ve had Beau, I have never seen him vomit. That didn’t even happen with the first coccidia infection (at least, not that I saw!). On Tuesday, he seemed absolutely fine and eager to come out for some free range time on his orange tree. Today was a very different story. Within maybe two hours, I noticed that his eye turrets began to sink in a bit. He stayed under the basking spot for several hours until I opened his cage door - I wanted to get a good look at him/look for poop to collect. He did appear to perk up a little and crawled over to the front of the cage, but even so he was noticeably lethargic. He didn’t really move after that until lights out. I almost wonder if it isn’t parasites and he ate something toxic when he was outside. If that is the case, obviously I didn’t see it happen. If it‘s not coccidia, I am genuinely concerned that it is something equally as serious or worse. As it stands currently, it’s looking like I won’t be able to get him to a vet until Friday. The vet we’ll be seeing is new, and I was *told* he’s familiar with chameleons.. but I’ve been told that before (only to later find out that I probably knew more about my animal than the doctor he was seen by did). At this point, I am absolutely preparing myself for the possibility of a worst case scenario. Oh man poor guy. I hope its not coccidia and I hope its not something toxic. Will he drink if you offer a dripper? What do his poops and urates look like? Any orange to the urage? If you are open to it you could also do a full husbandry review to see if there is something missing there that could be causing this. It can't hurt at least.

 

[Beman]

Sorry for my delay in responding hun. I had some family stuff yesterday I was dealing with.

I would be really shocked if it was coccidia. Not with the cleaning and preventative measures you took last year. I would get the fecal sample tested before you treat him again.

Not all meds work on all parasites. If he comes back positive for something that does not work with this med then your treating with a strong medication for nothing.

 

[PlanetRemulak]

I may have to edit this into a more thorough update later on as my brain is currently mush lol

Fecal came back clean. It was not coccidia. I also had a fecal done on my newest guy for good measure, and that came back clean as well. So, what was it? A loose bit of leaf on a tree outside that he swallowed and couldn’t pass, so he regurgitated it (I actually brought what he threw up into the vet along with a fecal sample. Vet went through it). Vet said no blockages appeared on the X-ray and felt encouraged by the fact that he had pooped enough for me to have a sample to bring in. He seems to think Beau passed whatever couldn’t be digested from both ends. Felt the extremely watery diarrhea was likely due to him drinking a lot in a very short period of time after regurgitating, and probably basked with one eye shut for the day because the ordeal was physically painful. Beau was actually back to himself by the time I got him into the vet yesterday, and has continued along that trend today. I did mention concern about him feeling thirsty enough to try and drink from the bottom of the cage, so the vet did some bloodwork to check his kidney function. Waiting on results for that still, but he felt Beau looked hyrdrated. Did the Petr Necas skin pinch test, the “pinched” skin sprang back right away. As far as hydration goes, I do offer a dripper during the day. I also mist 30 mins after lights come on and 30 minutes before the UV light goes off for the night (plant LEDs and basking bulb have been off for at least an hour by that point). I mist several times throughout the night because I don’t use a fogger, but I’m thinking I’m going to have to work really hard to get temps below 70-69 F during the warm weather so that can change.

I’ve learned a very hard lesson about free ranging outdoors. I usually take Beau outside to ”his“ orange tree, and then sit under the patio to read. I’m going to have to really watch him as long as I take him outside. I’ve caught him shooting his tongue at loose/dry leaves before. Things worked out for the best THIS time, but definitely don’t want a repeat of it. Next time he may not be able to pass whatever inedible thing he swallows. I’m actually beginning to think I’m going to have to take a step back from chameleons when mine pass - of OLD AGE. Starting to wonder whether I have the nerve for this (or the brain cells to keep myself from killing one of them on accident) lol.

@elizaann2, @janjan20 and @Beman (as per usual lol) - thank you so, so much for your input. I so appreciate it very recent photo of the offending party included for good measure

 

[PlanetRemulak]

Oh my gosh it was SUCH a night mare! I cried like every day and literally mentally prepared myself for him to pass. I did not have the confidence that I had the skillset to clear him from the parasite, treat him with medication, keep his health up while he took medications or anything. It was really really rough.

Not difficult at all to empathize with you! That preparing for the worst feeling is beyond awful. I am so glad those days are behind you and your boy ended up pulling through!

 

[janjan20]

This is great news and SO HAPPY he is better!! It is super stressful when they are sick…hoping the blood work comes back good too!

 

[dinomom]

I may have to edit this into a more thorough update later on as my brain is currently mush lol

Fecal came back clean. It was not coccidia. I also had a fecal done on my newest guy for good measure, and that came back clean as well. So, what was it? A loose bit of leaf on a tree outside that he swallowed and couldn’t pass, so he regurgitated it (I actually brought what he threw up into the vet along with a fecal sample. Vet went through it). Vet said no blockages appeared on the X-ray and felt encouraged by the fact that he had pooped enough for me to have a sample to bring in. He seems to think Beau passed whatever couldn’t be digested from both ends. Felt the extremely watery diarrhea was likely due to him drinking a lot in a very short period of time after regurgitating, and probably basked with one eye shut for the day because the ordeal was physically painful. Beau was actually back to himself by the time I got him into the vet yesterday, and has continued along that trend today. I did mention concern about him feeling thirsty enough to try and drink from the bottom of the cage, so the vet did some bloodwork to check his kidney function. Waiting on results for that still, but he felt Beau looked hyrdrated. Did the Petr Necas skin pinch test, the “pinched” skin sprang back right away. As far as hydration goes, I do offer a dripper during the day. I also mist 30 mins after lights come on and 30 minutes before the UV light goes off for the night (plant LEDs and basking bulb have been off for at least an hour by that point). I mist several times throughout the night because I don’t use a fogger, but I’m thinking I’m going to have to work really hard to get temps below 70-69 F during the warm weather so that can change.

I’ve learned a very hard lesson about free ranging outdoors. I usually take Beau outside to ”his“ orange tree, and then sit under the patio to read. I’m going to have to really watch him as long as I take him outside. I’ve caught him shooting his tongue at loose/dry leaves before. Things worked out for the best THIS time, but definitely don’t want a repeat of it. Next time he may not be able to pass whatever inedible thing he swallows. I’m actually beginning to think I’m going to have to take a step back from chameleons when mine pass - of OLD AGE. Starting to wonder whether I have the nerve for this (or the brain cells to keep myself from killing one of them on accident) lol.

@elizaann2, @janjan20 and @Beman (as per usual lol) - thank you so, so much for your input. I so appreciate it very recent photo of the offending party included for good measure

Thank you for sharing this, it really helps all of us know what to watch for. Please forgive yourself! This can happen inside the cage, too. I witnessed my Meller's go for a BSF on a soft, new umbrella tree leaf; his tongue got the bug but also the leaf and I watched in horror as the whole thing went in. He was no worse for the wear but it definitely worried me.

Thank goodness you had the reassurance from the vet that it was not what you feared.

 

[elizaann2]

I may have to edit this into a more thorough update later on as my brain is currently mush lol

Fecal came back clean. It was not coccidia. I also had a fecal done on my newest guy for good measure, and that came back clean as well. So, what was it? A loose bit of leaf on a tree outside that he swallowed and couldn’t pass, so he regurgitated it (I actually brought what he threw up into the vet along with a fecal sample. Vet went through it). Vet said no blockages appeared on the X-ray and felt encouraged by the fact that he had pooped enough for me to have a sample to bring in. He seems to think Beau passed whatever couldn’t be digested from both ends. Felt the extremely watery diarrhea was likely due to him drinking a lot in a very short period of time after regurgitating, and probably basked with one eye shut for the day because the ordeal was physically painful. Beau was actually back to himself by the time I got him into the vet yesterday, and has continued along that trend today. I did mention concern about him feeling thirsty enough to try and drink from the bottom of the cage, so the vet did some bloodwork to check his kidney function. Waiting on results for that still, but he felt Beau looked hyrdrated. Did the Petr Necas skin pinch test, the “pinched” skin sprang back right away. As far as hydration goes, I do offer a dripper during the day. I also mist 30 mins after lights come on and 30 minutes before the UV light goes off for the night (plant LEDs and basking bulb have been off for at least an hour by that point). I mist several times throughout the night because I don’t use a fogger, but I’m thinking I’m going to have to work really hard to get temps below 70-69 F during the warm weather so that can change.

I’ve learned a very hard lesson about free ranging outdoors. I usually take Beau outside to ”his“ orange tree, and then sit under the patio to read. I’m going to have to really watch him as long as I take him outside. I’ve caught him shooting his tongue at loose/dry leaves before. Things worked out for the best THIS time, but definitely don’t want a repeat of it. Next time he may not be able to pass whatever inedible thing he swallows. I’m actually beginning to think I’m going to have to take a step back from chameleons when mine pass - of OLD AGE. Starting to wonder whether I have the nerve for this (or the brain cells to keep myself from killing one of them on accident) lol.

@elizaann2, @janjan20 and @Beman (as per usual lol) - thank you so, so much for your input. I so appreciate it very recent photo of the offending party included for good measure

This literally made my day! I am SO GLAD!!!!!! And thank you for the shared photo he is just beautiful!

 

[PlanetRemulak]

Oh my gosh it was SUCH a night mare! I cried like every day and literally mentally prepared myself for him to pass. I did not have the confidence that I had the skillset to clear him from the parasite, treat him with medication, keep his health up while he took medications or anything. It was really really rough.

This is great news and SO HAPPY he is better!! It is super stressful when they are sick…hoping the blood work comes back good too!

Thank you for sharing this, it really helps all of us know what to watch for. Please forgive yourself! This can happen inside the cage, too. I witnessed my Meller's go for a BSF on a soft, new umbrella tree leaf; his tongue got the bug but also the leaf and I watched in horror as the whole thing went in. He was no worse for the wear but it definitely worried me.

Thank goodness you had the reassurance from the vet that it was not what you feared.

This literally made my day! I am SO GLAD!!!!!! And thank you for the shared photo he is just beautiful!

I cannot thank all of you enough for your support. And I owe Beman 20 x over for emotional support, lol. I could die, reincarnate and raise chameleons in that life too and I would still owe Beman lol


@dinomom absolutely!! Honestly, this is exactly why I came back with an update. Somewhere down the line, some poor panicked cham owner is going to search “vomiting” or “regurgitation.“ To that poor, panicked person, I ask that you consider the following:

- your cham ate/drank too much, too fast.
- your cham ate something they couldn’t digest/poop out, and there may be a blockage, X-rays may be needed. According to my vet, a chameleon receiving proper husbandry should not experience a blockage requiring surgery. That’s assuming your cham did not swallow a piece of fake plant.

Thank you @dinomom for sharing YOUR experience. That is terrifying. I’m so glad your meller’s ended up being fine! This whole experience actually reminded me of an older Neptune video, when Apollo tried to eat a necklace she was wearing