possible gular edama, help!!

[AngieL]

Wow! and she already laid her retained clutch? Poor girl If it is egg related then the edema shouldn't be too much to worry about to hopefully you guys will get on ok.

 

[pamnsam94]

ive only offerd d3 an a multivitamin twice a month so i wouldnt of thought it was to much, my other chams are ok. i think ive caught it at the right stage as its only small at the moment, i might change the brand of supliments im using

Because the metabolism of each chameleon varies depending on age, sex, egg production, and even genetics, it's not unusual that one animal might be affected but not the others. It would be helpful to know how much preformed vitamin A you provide via supplements and the dosages/frequencies of supplements that contain it and/or vitamin D3 (e.g. x I.U. of D3 per pound and y I.U. of preformed A per lb, etc.). If you are only providing beta carotene (no studies have been done to determine whether chameleons can even convert beta carotene to useable preformed vitamin A, let alone in adequate amounts) or not giving enough preformed vitamin A, especially in relation to the D3 you are giving, that might be causing the edema in that particular female. If you're using UVB lamps, I would suggest foregoing D3 completely. Secondly, I would lightly dust most feeders with pure calcium (no D3) simply to correct the phosphorus/calcium imbalance found in most insects. Finally, depending on the concentration, I like to lightly dust feeders with a supplement containing preformed vitamin A once to twice each month (the frequency also depends on the the age, sex, and whether a particular animal is producing eggs). How long have you had the female? Did you get her as an adult or did you raise her from a hatchling? I ask because sometimes people, including myself, have obtained adults or subadults without knowing the history of how a particular animal was supplemented prior to making the purchase. Sometimes, if permanent organ damage has been done (not enough to cause death but intermittent malfunction), an edema may increase and decrease in size, sometimes seemingly disappearing entirely, although the underlying cause of the edema (often permanent mild to moderate organ damage) still exists. I believe this is why many animals, once affected, often have recurring edemas over the remainder of their lives. Prevention is key. Although I've had animals with an edema that completely disappeared, never to return again, it is common for edemas in other chameleons to periodically reoccur. The good news is that in many of those situations, the animal can still have a good life and continue to breed, etc..

Perry

 

[chameleonkev]

Il am using UVB tubes so I won't use the d3 any more, Ive had the female as a adult and had her about three months but got her of someone who no's a hell of a lot more than me about chams so I wouldn't of thought his husbandry would be wrong, she is a WC female. I've dusted with reptivite my multivitamin twice a month and same with the d3, I can get the tubs an read them to see what's in them an how much if you like, all that just goes over my head

 

[chameleonkev]

Because the metabolism of each chameleon varies depending on age, sex, egg production, and even genetics, it's not unusual that one animal might be affected but not the others. It would be helpful to know how much preformed vitamin A you provide via supplements and the dosages/frequencies of supplements that contain it and/or vitamin D3 (e.g. x I.U. of D3 per pound and y I.U. of preformed A per lb, etc.). If you are only providing beta carotene (no studies have been done to determine whether chameleons can even convert beta carotene to useable preformed vitamin A, let alone in adequate amounts) or not giving enough preformed vitamin A, especially in relation to the D3 you are giving, that might be causing the edema in that particular female. If you're using UVB lamps, I would suggest foregoing D3 completely. Secondly, I would lightly dust most feeders with pure calcium (no D3) simply to correct the phosphorus/calcium imbalance found in most insects. Finally, depending on the concentration, I like to lightly dust feeders with a supplement containing preformed vitamin A once to twice each month (the frequency also depends on the the age, sex, and whether a particular animal is producing eggs). How long have you had the female? Did you get her as an adult or did you raise her from a hatchling? I ask because sometimes people, including myself, have obtained adults or subadults without knowing the history of how a particular animal was supplemented prior to making the purchase. Sometimes, if permanent organ damage has been done (not enough to cause death but intermittent malfunction), an edema may increase and decrease in size, sometimes seemingly disappearing entirely, although the underlying cause of the edema (often permanent mild to moderate organ damage) still exists. I believe this is why many animals, once affected, often have recurring edemas over the remainder of their lives. Prevention is key. Although I've had animals with an edema that completely disappeared, never to return again, it is common for edemas in other chameleons to periodically reoccur. The good news is that in many of those situations, the animal can still have a good life and continue to breed, etc..

Perry

In the calcium with d3 the vitamin d3 per kg( only in kg) is 22,907 IU and in the reptivite the vitamin a per lb is 99,910 IU if that means anything to you

 

[chameleonkev]

What brand supplements do you use? I'm always interested to see what fellow Brits use for their chams

For the past 5-6 months I've been using zoo med repti calcium with d3 and the one with out d3 and also zoo med reptivite, if there are better ones on the market for the uk please tell me as I will upgrade, I've always been told these are plenty good enought but I don't no much about what's in them

 

[pamnsam94]

In the calcium with d3 the vitamin d3 per kg( only in kg) is 22,907 IU and in the reptivite the vitamin a per lb is 99,910 IU if that means anything to you

Something to keep in mind is that there is generally considered to be an "optimum" ratio of vitamin A to D3 among vertebrates. That ratio is 10:1 so that may be the problem. My suggestion is to simply use the UVB lamps for D3 production and continue what you're doing with the vitamin A (possibly even increasing the Reptivite containing the vitamin A to four times a month if you are using the Reptivite without D3). I'm assuming and hope the Reptivite you are using is the one without D3. If not, and you are also using Zoomed's Repti Calcium with D3, then I definitely think you are giving too much D3. Another alternative that I know some people use is to give Repashy's Calcium Plus (containing both D3 and vitamin A in the "optimum" ratio) twice to four times a month. Whatever route you choose, I would lightly dust most feeders with a pure calcium (no D3), like Repashy's Calcium (no D3) to correct the imbalance of calcium to phosphorus found in most insects. If you gutload your feeders with high calcium greens like turnip greens, dandelion greens, etc., something that is most always recommended, you might only want to dust your feeders with pure calcium (no D3) every other feeding or so.

Perry

 

[chameleonkev]

Yes the reptivite dosent have any d3 in there and I think that's what I'm going to do, just completly cut the d3 out for a month an I do gut load but I've got a list here with greater in calcium feeders so I will be using them