Spitting out crickets?

[CalamityCrow]

Good morning folks.

I have a concern about my new baby panther. I've seen him eat a few times, sometimes successfully, and a couple times having spit out his food. He'll shoot it, hold it in his mouth for 30 seconds or so, chew, and eventually spit it out. I managed to get a video of it, which I'll post here as well. Maybe that particular cricket was too big? There are a couple bigger ones that snuck in there.

Should I be concerned?

The cage picture I uploaded has a different cup now. It's the full-throttle feeder cup, 3".

I've already got a vet appointment set up for Tuesday (soonest they were able to get me in) just in case. I originally thought he maybe had an RI but I haven't heard any clicking from him today while he chewed but now I'm concerned about a possible mouth injury. Either way, I'm a first-time chameleon owner and I wanna do right by him. I'd rather be overly worried than flippant and cause him harm.

Here's video of him shooting/sitting/eating: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1i6Mt3LK9SiSvgZ_fgdWSEuPC3yJq3Tok/view?usp=sharing

Here's the basic info:

• Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care? Panther chameleon, male, 3-4mos. I've had him for a week.
• Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon? I've handled him about 3 times total, including once to put him into his cage from his shipping cup and a couple times to coax him off the screen ceiling (I'm realizing I probably don't need to do that).
• Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders? Small crickets, started with free range, got a good feeder cup so that's been up for a day, I've been feeding them carrots. I also have small dubia roaches (he's not been interested so far) and some black soldier larvae on the way for variety. Plan is to get rid of crickets entirely - I hate them.
• Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule? Arcadia EarthPro-A daily and will be using reptivite with D3 2x a month.
• Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking? I have a mist king and mist just after lights out, 1:30am, and just before lights on, each for 2 mins. I have also hand-misted a few times in the morning/around lights on time if things look dry. I've seen him drink once.
• Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites? I've only seen one poop and it was moist with a white urate. He hasn't been tested but the vet plans to do that if I can bring a recent fecal sample.
• History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you. He's a Kammerflage Kreations-bread chameleon

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions? Reptibreeze screen enclosure, size L. 18x18x36 (I will be upgrading this cage to the proper 24x24x48 soon) I have window plastic over the sides and back.
• Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule? Arcadia T5 24" light, 6% UVB. 8am-8pm
• Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps? Basking area is between 78-82, with lowest temps around 64 near the bottom of the cage during the day, with most of hte cage being in the low 70s. At night, I turn the heater off and the bottom of the cage is close to 60. I use a laser thermometer for measuring specific areas and I have a digital hygrometer with thermometer positioned in the top 1/3rd of the cage.
• Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity? I try and keep humidity around 40-50% during the day, and over 70% at night. Hygrometer in the cage. I also have the automated mistking going, with supplemental misting if needed
• Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind? Yes, I have 2 porthos plants and one rubber tree in the bottom. I have a few fake plants to fill it out as things grow, and will be upgrading those with the upgraded cage to being 100% live plants.
• Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor? Cage is kept on top of a table. Top of the cage is about 6' in elevation. It's in the corner of my living room and doesn't see much traffic.
• Location - Where are you geographically located? Central Ohio.
• Problem - As stated above, I've seen my chameleon spit a few crickets out and am concerned for his well-being.

Like Quote Reply

 

[MissSkittles]

Hi. Give me a little bit and I’ll go thru your husbandry.
Perhaps the crickets are too big for your baby? Rule of thumb is if feeder is bigger than the space between the eyes, it’s too big.

 

[CalamityCrow]

Hi. Give me a little bit and I’ll go thru your husbandry.
Perhaps the crickets are too big for your baby? Rule of thumb is if feeder is bigger than the space between the eyes, it’s too big.

I'm hoping that's the case. Would he go for them even if they're too big? If so I'll be extremely picky on what I put in there. w

 

[MissSkittles]

That took much less time than I thought. To my eyes, your husbandry looks great! I think the crickets may be a bit too big for him. Try smaller ones, like 1/4” or smaller and see if that makes a difference. You could also try smaller bsfl and see how he does with those. It may be hard to get roach nymphs small enough for him. You could order some small silkworms…those usually come pretty tiny. You’ll also need to improve what you’re feeding the buggies. It is possible to eliminate crickets, but they are useful for babies. Attaching feeder and gutload graphics.
The only other feedback I have is about the green sticks in your enclosure. They look as though they are wrapped in tape. Two concerns for that…look like they’d be slippery, especially when wet & never ever put tape in a chameleon enclosure. They will find a way to get it stuck to them and that is a problem you don’t want to ever have to deal with.

 

[kinyonga]

Welcome to the forum!

Does he eat some crickets first then start spitting them out or is it random?

How heavily are you dusting the insects?

Regarding feeding/gutloading the crickets...you want to have the insects be as healthy and nutricious as possible, so I would recommend that you feed them a wide variety of greens such as collards, dandelions, kale, endive, escarole, etc and veggies such as squash, zucchini, sweet red pepper, sweet potato, etc and a very small amount of fruits such as berries, melon, apple, pear.

Just wanted to mention...rubber trees have a sap that is somewhat poisonous to pets...unless the insects are nibbling on it, it shouldn't be a part of the problem...but you might want to replace it with another safer plant. You wouldn't want the chameleon to accidentally nibble it either.

 

[CalamityCrow]

That took much less time than I thought. To my eyes, your husbandry looks great! I think the crickets may be a bit too big for him. Try smaller ones, like 1/4” or smaller and see if that makes a difference. You could also try smaller bsfl and see how he does with those. It may be hard to get roach nymphs small enough for him. You could order some small silkworms…those usually come pretty tiny. You’ll also need to improve what you’re feeding the buggies. It is possible to eliminate crickets, but they are useful for babies. Attaching feeder and gutload graphics.
The only other feedback I have is about the green sticks in your enclosure. They look as though they are wrapped in tape. Two concerns for that…look like they’d be slippery, especially when wet & never ever put tape in a chameleon enclosure. They will find a way to get it stuck to them and that is a problem you don’t want to ever have to deal with.
View attachment 319002View attachment 319003

Thank you so much! I'll get some better veggies to feed my (smaller) feeders so that they taste delicious AND are more nutritious. I'll also get some better sticks without tape (some of the cage stuff was inherited, and the more I learn, the more the previous cage owner wasn't practicing the best husbandry...). Glad to know they might just be too big.

Either way, my vet appt got moved to tomorrow so I'll have him checked out medically too.

 

[CalamityCrow]

Welcome to the forum!

Does he eat some crickets first then start spitting them out or is it random?

How heavily are you dusting the insects?

Regarding feeding/gutloading the crickets...you want to have the insects be as healthy and nutricious as possible, so I would recommend that you feed them a wide variety of greens such as collards, dandelions, kale, endive, escarole, etc and veggies such as squash, zucchini, sweet red pepper, sweet potato, etc and a very small amount of fruits such as berries, melon, apple, pear.

Just wanted to mention...rubber trees have a sap that is somewhat poisonous to pets...unless the insects are nibbling on it, it shouldn't be a part of the problem...but you might want to replace it with another safer plant. You wouldn't want the chameleon to accidentally nibble it either.

Thanks!

He's eaten some just fine, and has spat out others. I *believe* he's spat out ones that are a bit bigger, so I hope that's the culprit.

As far as dusting, I'll put like ~15 bugs into a bag and two small doses from the metal tongs I have of the powder, and shake 'em around in there. Think that's too much?

Aw DARN on the rubber tree! I found it on a list somewhere and must have gotten my wires crossed thinking it was okay for chams. I'll go to the hardware store this weekend and get something much safer.

I appreciate everyone's quick responses!

 

[Beman]

Either way, my vet appt got moved to tomorrow so I'll have him checked out medically too.

You have gotten great advice... I just want to mention. PLEASE make sure your seeing a reptile vet with Chameleon experience. Seeing a vet that does not have the experience can end up being very bad.

A few Warning signs....
They want to give a vitamin injection.
They say you have a female when you clearly have a male.
They tell you that your temps should be far hotter then the hobby recommended 80-85 range.

 

[CalamityCrow]

You have gotten great advice... I just want to mention. PLEASE make sure your seeing a reptile vet with Chameleon experience. Seeing a vet that does not have the experience can end up being very bad.

A few Warning signs....
They want to give a vitamin injection.
They say you have a female when you clearly have a male.
They tell you that your temps should be far hotter then the hobby recommended 80-85 range.

Yes! Great advice. I asked the vet if they do reptiles, specifically chameleons and they did say they do. She gave me some good advice over the phone and are going to look into my husbandry and all that too. I have a good feeling buuuuut I will ABSOLUTELY be wary. I think I have the basic husbandry down so I'll keep my ears perked for anything unusual from them.

 

[Beman]

Yes! Great advice. I asked the vet if they do reptiles, specifically chameleons and they did say they do. She gave me some good advice over the phone and are going to look into my husbandry and all that too. I have a good feeling buuuuut I will ABSOLUTELY be wary. I think I have the basic husbandry down so I'll keep my ears perked for anything unusual from them.

Ok just really keep in mind... Just because they say they do does not mean they know what they are doing. So if they tell you something that you have read in the forum as not a hobby standard... Be careful.
Vitamin shots can really mess up a healthy cham.

 

[Beman]

Not trying to preach or be negative... LOL my vet that I have here. I would not trust with my cham. LIKE EVER. I took my dog in to get established and he was the "reptile Vet" so I saw him. I quizzed him and yeah no way my boy will ever see him.

 

[CalamityCrow]

Not trying to preach or be negative... LOL my vet that I have here. I would not trust with my cham. LIKE EVER. I took my dog in to get established and he was the "reptile Vet" so I saw him. I quizzed him and yeah no way my boy will ever see him.

Haha good to know! This forum has been invaluable for my research and I trust the folks who have been raising them for years more than just about anyone else...

 

[kinyonga]

Thanks!

He's eaten some just fine, and has spat out others. I *believe* he's spat out ones that are a bit bigger, so I hope that's the culprit.

As far as dusting, I'll put like ~15 bugs into a bag and two small doses from the metal tongs I have of the powder, and shake 'em around in there. Think that's too much?

Aw DARN on the rubber tree! I found it on a list somewhere and must have gotten my wires crossed thinking it was okay for chams. I'll go to the hardware store this weekend and get something much safer.

I appreciate everyone's quick responses!

I'm hoping it's just that the bugs are too big.

Dusting should NOT make the insects look like ghosts or powdered donuts....it should be lighter/less than that.

 

[CalamityCrow]

I was out at work for a good while today (usually I telework), and had a church thing this evening... Checking his food cup without having been able to keep an eye on him, there are quite a few crickets gone now. I'm hoping that's due to my little guy having successfully consumed them. I don't see any extra chewed and spat out crickets anywhere, but... it's not exactly easy to hunt things down with all those leaves. We'll see what the vet says tomorrow. Now I think I'm probably at a point where it's just a cautionary visit, but... We shall see.

Again, I am extremely thankful for all the advice here! I'm clearly still learning and there's still so much to find out.

 

[MissSkittles]

I was out at work for a good while today (usually I telework), and had a church thing this evening... Checking his food cup without having been able to keep an eye on him, there are quite a few crickets gone now. I'm hoping that's due to my little guy having successfully consumed them. I don't see any extra chewed and spat out crickets anywhere, but... it's not exactly easy to hunt things down with all those leaves. We'll see what the vet says tomorrow. Now I think I'm probably at a point where it's just a cautionary visit, but... We shall see.

Again, I am extremely thankful for all the advice here! I'm clearly still learning and there's still so much to find out.

When feeding crickets there is always a possibility that they can escape and be hiding out in the enclosure. They will get hungry/thirsty and will see your chameleon as a tasty bite. It’s a good idea to put a small piece of shaved carrot or something else on the enclosure floor for them.