Pez - not tracking food well
- Thread starter tdeamicis
- Start date
There are two types of vitamin A …prOformed (needs to be converted by the body to be useful and can’t be overdone) and prEformed (ready to go and thus can build up in the body and lead to health issues)…it’s thought that chameleons can not convert the prOformed efficiently…or maybe not even at all…so we use a prEformed source twice a month to ensure that they get some without overdoing it.
The prOformed comes from beta carotene and other carotenoids found in plants while the prEformed sources come from retinol/animal sources. Vitamin A is fat soluble…so caution is needed.
in addition to this…vitamin A and vitamin D3 need to be in balance or there can be health issues.
From what we know, insects are not a good source of vitamin A…and the intake for the chameleons still needs to be preformed.
The prOformed comes from beta carotene and other carotenoids found in plants while the prEformed sources come from retinol/animal sources. Vitamin A is fat soluble…so caution is needed.
in addition to this…vitamin A and vitamin D3 need to be in balance or there can be health issues.
From what we know, insects are not a good source of vitamin A…and the intake for the chameleons still needs to be preformed.
What vitamin brand/type would you suggest I get? So far, it's only been the calcium, and calcium+D3 that she gets herself. The rest of the veggies all go through the insects first.
According to your chart…she got vitamin D3
Feb 13…March 10 and 27…May…none…that’s not twice a month.
Re: the diet…according to your chart , you’re feeding her more than 5 insects every 3 days.
By dropping eggs, you said twice she laid the clutch and then later laid an egg separately….where was the single egg laid both times? Where the single eggs buried?
You also said…”The vet felt 2 eggs in her….there shouldn’t just be two eggs IMHO.
It’s recommended to use a phos free calcium at all feedings but two a month. On those two feedings, that are two weeks apart, use a vitamin powder lightly that contains a preformed source of vitamin A and a D3 source….reptivite is most often recommended.
Yes, Feb and March is was missed. May, she's only eaten 9 bugs, and got the D3 injection.
In general, she is getting 3 bugs every 2 days. Sometimes she snags an extra tiny roach, and I still consider it 2 in my count.
For eggs, let me go back to that image and see.
By dropping eggs, you said twice she laid the clutch and then later laid an egg separately….where was the single egg laid both times? Where the single eggs buried?
You also said…”The vet felt 2 eggs in her….there shouldn’t just be two eggs IMHO.
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18th, she laid eggs.
The 19th, she was digging around, I made her a hole, stick one previously laid egg in it, and she buried it and was finally content.
20th, she laid eggs.
21st, I counted the eggs. Maybe I shouldn't mark it that way..... I'm just trying to include as much information as possible in this spreadsheet....
And for what the vet felt, I can't say. I just wrote down what I heard and shared in case it mattered..... Do the eggs all get created and grow together, or does one grow at a time? I have no idea. Maybe I need to research that next because I don't know what's normal. I'm just expecting that she is now about 40 days from laying eggs. I didn't know we could feel them at this point.
Oranges, apples, bananas, carrots, broccoli, leafy greens are the things I can think of offhand that we put in there occasionally. They are put in one at a time, in rotation.
From what I know, a group of follicles start to mature and then when they ovulate follow one after the other down the reproductive system to the cloaca and are laid all at once.
My fear is that they are leftover eggs from the last clutch that should have been laid.
From the way she tries to shoot her tongue out but can’t, it seems like a nutritional imbalance…but I’m not a vet and can’t be sure. It’s just my best guess.
My fear is that they are leftover eggs from the last clutch that should have been laid.
From the way she tries to shoot her tongue out but can’t, it seems like a nutritional imbalance…but I’m not a vet and can’t be sure. It’s just my best guess.
Would 2 leftover eggs still be there waiting? Wouldn't she have gone downhill back in January?
I'm thinking it is likely to be a vitamin a issue. With the injection 4 days ago, how quickly can we turn this around?
I'm at an emergency hospital with her now, been here for 2 hours now. Waiting for the doctor to come back.
Vet here doesn't say she can feel eggs. She says that my 80 degree basking isn't enough, that it's too cold for her.
Pez is in a small area right now, 90+ degree basking spot, and is now warmed up and ate 10 mealworms. Her ankles are a little swollen. She's going to get a little more fluid and eat once more (I gave them my Dubai roaches and superworms, we'll see what they feed her). I'll start the bimonthly vitamin a multivitamin.
I'm going to do bloodwork at this Grapevine place when they open on Monday. Worst case, she goes downhill tonight/tomorrow, I'll come back here and do bloodwork here.
Pez is in a small area right now, 90+ degree basking spot, and is now warmed up and ate 10 mealworms. Her ankles are a little swollen. She's going to get a little more fluid and eat once more (I gave them my Dubai roaches and superworms, we'll see what they feed her). I'll start the bimonthly vitamin a multivitamin.
I'm going to do bloodwork at this Grapevine place when they open on Monday. Worst case, she goes downhill tonight/tomorrow, I'll come back here and do bloodwork here.
That's what I would think as well. I would think a week or so would be all it would take. Not 3 months later...
And actually, we started off with the 10.0, but moved to a 5.0. I decided to change it out today, even though I shouldn't have to have changed it quite yet, and moved it to a 10.0 that I happened to have, and Pez perked up and went over to that area. So I am thinking she is liking it, and that she is getting something that was missing.... I know that it is a 10.0 and 5.0 and some slight differences between the two, but can I use the 10.0 instead? Is there any benefit/harm to one versus the other? I have ordered a 5.0 and it should be here in a few days. Local pet stores don't have the 5.0 in a 46" linear bulb....
ChamelaChameleon
Chameleon Enthusiast
A few good vets in your area.
Texas Avian and Exotic Hospital in Dallas, TX.
And
Dr. Greg Moore of Southlake Animal Hospital
Texas Avian and Exotic Hospital in Dallas, TX.
And
Dr. Greg Moore of Southlake Animal Hospital
I'll be going to TAEH on Monday.
Will any vet say that the 80 degree basking spot won't create "hypothermia"?
Hey hun sorry your going through this.... Was she having issues targeting her food as in extending her tongue before the vet gave the Vitamin A and D3 shot? I personally hate these shots just because I am always concerned of overdosing the system since they are fat soluble.
For UVB because of the gauge screen you use on the top panel I would use nothing stronger than a 5.0 or 6% uvb bulb. Then you want the distance to the branch below to be roughly 10 inches away. So your measuring from the bottom of the fixture to the branch. This is going to put her in a UVI level that is not over kill. The 10.0 bulbs are really strong especially to use with a gauge like the kind you have. The different material matters because it impacts how strong the UVB is. The standard metal aluminum window screen will reduce a UVI level down by about 40%. So the larger the gauge the more UVI comes through and the stronger it is.
Yes, you should be using a supplement with preformed A. I typically recommend Repashy Calcium Plus LoD version. This would replace using calcium with D3. It has both D3 and A in it along with other needed vitamins. It is used only 2 times a month. Then a phosphorus free calcium without D3 at all other feedings.
With females I do not have the hands on experience. I am wondering if since the vet said they felt eggs if she had retained eggs and that is the issue. Although I would think they would do an xray to confirm.
For UVB because of the gauge screen you use on the top panel I would use nothing stronger than a 5.0 or 6% uvb bulb. Then you want the distance to the branch below to be roughly 10 inches away. So your measuring from the bottom of the fixture to the branch. This is going to put her in a UVI level that is not over kill. The 10.0 bulbs are really strong especially to use with a gauge like the kind you have. The different material matters because it impacts how strong the UVB is. The standard metal aluminum window screen will reduce a UVI level down by about 40%. So the larger the gauge the more UVI comes through and the stronger it is.
Yes, you should be using a supplement with preformed A. I typically recommend Repashy Calcium Plus LoD version. This would replace using calcium with D3. It has both D3 and A in it along with other needed vitamins. It is used only 2 times a month. Then a phosphorus free calcium without D3 at all other feedings.
With females I do not have the hands on experience. I am wondering if since the vet said they felt eggs if she had retained eggs and that is the issue. Although I would think they would do an xray to confirm.
