pardalis morphology sources request.

[jorginhone]

Hello everyone.

First thanks for take the time to read me.

I'm not a chameleon owner, i love them since a kid, i'm a private person (not a company) and i want to make a pardalis sculpture.

Obviously buy one It's something I'm not going to do.

So im trying to find very basic data about the morphology but I can not find it, for example the head measures width and long, or in general body measures.

I find always the same data the length measurement of the entire animal, I can't even find the tail measurement or the proportion with the body.

I don't want anyone to measure his/her animal, just if you can provide me documents, good books to buy, websites or whatever, a good sources.

I have used the search engine but what I find talks about room measurements or UV lamps

thanks a lot for you time again.

 

[kinyonga]

Welcome to the forum!

I’m not sure there is data like that out there.

Also, there is some variation in the shapes of the head in particular, because panther chameleons are not just one species.

Here’s a bit of information that might help…
https://www.skullsunlimited.com/products/real-panther-chameleon-skull-lq-12611

 

[Beman]

So not sure if that is out there especially since even in an individual species size can vary. Here are a few links that may help you.
https://www.madcham.de/en/anatomie/
https://www.madcham.de/en/category/...ten/lokalformen-von-furcifer-pardalis/page/2/

 

[jorginhone]

Welcome to the forum!

I’m not sure there is data like that out there.

Also, there is some variation in the shapes of the head in particular, because panther chameleons are not just one species.

Here’s a bit of information that might help…
https://www.skullsunlimited.com/products/real-panther-chameleon-skull-lq-12611

Thanks for the answer.

Yes, i saw that after a lot of images there are variants , ambilobe etc, that skull really helps to understand the anatomy, thanks

So not sure if that is out there especially since even in an individual species size can vary. Here are a few links that may help you.
https://www.madcham.de/en/anatomie/
https://www.madcham.de/en/category/...ten/lokalformen-von-furcifer-pardalis/page/2/

Thanks for the answer.

i havent found that info on my searchs, i'll study the info

Thanks a lot for both of you!

 

[kinyonga]

One more…
https://m.facebook.com/media/set/?vanity=theskeletonfactory&set=a.1686159711484112

 

[jorginhone]

One more…
https://m.facebook.com/media/set/?vanity=theskeletonfactory&set=a.1686159711484112

Thank you again.

If you want & see something else on the internet you have complete freedom to post it, I will keep an eye on it,

 

[jorginhone]

To be honest, find the correct pictures just for reference is really hard, i expent a lot of hours on research.

The 99% of the photos are from the side, a thing i can understand, i found only 1 from a real top head view (i mean no middle way from the frontal view, side or whatever).

I found only 1 photo from the bottom of the head, no idea which variant is.

I found only 1 animal with different points of view, and the photos are not 100% the ideal, so i have to mix photos from different animals to complete one if i want to do something

Not to mention the problems I'm having with how the animal's jaw looks from different points of view.

If someone wants to share something here ill appreciate it, im not going to copy the animal, is just for reference.

 

[kinyonga]

When it comes to adding colour, you’ll likely need to know which morph it is so the colours can agree with the physical shape of the chameleon…if you get what I mean.

 

[jorginhone]

When it comes to adding colour, you’ll likely need to know which morph it is so the colours can agree with the physical shape of the chameleon…if you get what I mean.

yes i understand each variant has different colors but im speaking only about the modeling.

Im doing a hand modeling with monster clay, no 3D, 3D printed or whatever computer related that will be more easier with photos.

My problem is i dont have the correct photos, doesnt matter the chameleon variant or type because on the net i cant find photos.

The one i found more photos from the same one is from a panther nosy be, the type of head is longer than other ones i saw more shorter head like a iguana. (no idea if is because is a younger chamaleon).

Im started to model with what i have, mixing different chamaleon photos to be able to have different points of view, for reference and... is not exactly similar but we will see.

To be honest as i said, very hard to find material, I have spent 3 afternoons looking for material

 

[jorginhone]

When it comes to adding colour, you’ll likely need to know which morph it is so the colours can agree with the physical shape of the chameleon…if you get what I mean.

sorry i read you fast and i see i didnt read well.

Do you mean to highlight the details with different colours so that the shape of the chameleon can be seen better?

 

[GrannyK]

yes i understand each variant has different colors but im speaking only about the modeling.

Im doing a hand modeling with monster clay, no 3D, 3D printed or whatever computer related that will be more easier with photos.

My problem is i dont have the correct photos, doesnt matter the chameleon variant or type because on the net i cant find photos.

The one i found more photos from the same one is from a panther nosy be, the type of head is longer than other ones i saw more shorter head like a iguana. (no idea if is because is a younger chamaleon).

Im started to model with what i have, mixing different chamaleon photos to be able to have different points of view, for reference and... is not exactly similar but we will see.

To be honest as i said, very hard to find material, I have spent 3 afternoons looking for material

The nosey be is a pardalis species but it is its own sub. They do have a shorter snout and different color bluing than a ybbb,or rbbb ambilobe or ambanja. While they all are the same species there are fine details that set them apart not just color. Not sure if that was helpful but I connecting it to the nose piece about it being longer in your response.

 

[GrannyK]

Do you have a pic of the chameleon you were modeling? Maybe we can find the same species and get you a few more pics off the one you were using originally.
Sorry if I’m misunderstanding.

 

[kinyonga]

sorry i read you fast and i see i didnt read well.

Do you mean to highlight the details with different colours so that the shape of the chameleon can be seen better?

No…I mean that some of the panther chameleon species have different shapes to body parts….like the nose shape for instance. Each panther species also has specific body colours so you can’t be accurate by painting a “ narrower nosed species with the colours of a species that has a wider nose structure…it’s not easy to explain….and even harder to find photos that will illustrate what I’m trying to explain.

 

[jorginhone]

Do you have a pic of the chameleon you were modeling? Maybe we can find the same species and get you a few more pics off the one you were using originally.
Sorry if I’m misunderstanding.

Hello, thanks for your reply, im answering later because i was trying to handle this by myself first, to avoid asking for help and take your time.

Yes, i understand what you mean, each type is different, im understanding it after seeing a lot of photos, pardalis is the family and then different types from different regions of madagascar, nosy be, ambilobe etc.

My problem is, lack of photos to get the idea, yes, i know more or less but i need a better approach.

I dont want to post a long answer but is needed to explain and you'll understand perfect what is happening, you have to take the perspective that i never seen one cham and discovering the shape by videos-photos.

1- The problem.

I started with this one:

https://www.shutterstock.com/es/ima...dalis-86294356?src=kek90phuR7eeaCvaSlYSQA-1-3

I was looking first this one, doing well the jaw, looking from different photos from the same cham how the bulding is and where end, the general shape of the mandible, looking a head skull etc, until i saw the another bulging on the left side of the lower mandible , is like a rollecoaster, i understand it, now not, i understand it, now not, and again, and again... breaking my head

Then switched to this one (photo attached at the end) that i saw more bulged jaw but i can't figure out how really is the buldged zone of the mandible, where start, where ends, how outside is relative to the top of the jaw etc.
This one also from the frontal view is completely different, the chams looks so easy from the side, but the frontal view change a lot, it looks wider on the chin so i have to figure out how wider or not is the chin etc... probably the resolution and shadows are lying here a lot.



What i learned about the mandible, they have around the bone a lot of skin/muscles giving another shape to the animal, not exactly how is the head skull (maybe i'm wrong, but is what i have observed).

Fortunately, after a lot of trouble, on 1 of my search I realized when the cham open the mouth show the real shape, when is close the lower line of the lower mandible is hidding, this can make wrinkles on the chin (apparently a characteristic feature of this type), if the dewlap is not bulging the wrinkles or how the mandible is hidding is more notorious.

minute 2:06 to 2:16



And this one also, miute 0:20



The lack of photos from the top or bottom of the head is also a problem, and even having a bottom one from what seems to be a panther:

https://www.chameleonforums.com/media/hi-biscus-everyone.55403/full

Do you see how is bulding the corners and the lips outside?, so how can i see there?, and the colors are not good to check the shape also.
I find that shadows, point of view etc lie.

just to finish.

What i need is properly photos, centered, with correct light and resolution, not beautiful photos, photos that can clearly see the shape, frontal, top, bottom, 3/4 (all as possible from different angles), correct shadows to see the shape, not lying shadows giving another shape to the animal etc like that photo attached.
So just good photos

I dont need the photos right know, if you or someone wants to provide them will be cool, for the moment im going to leave this aside for my health and going to make a red eyed tree frog, look the difference, just googling "eyed... bottom" and i get this refference, im not surprised because document this animals is a really hard job in my opinion, maybe i'm wrong.

https://depositphotos.com/photo/bot...-walking-agalychnis-callidryas-597696768.html

Thank you for your time!

No…I mean that some of the panther chameleon species have different shapes to body parts….like the nose shape for instance. Each panther species also has specific body colours so you can’t be accurate by painting a “ narrower nosed species with the colours of a species that has a wider nose structure…it’s not easy to explain….and even harder to find photos that will illustrate what I’m trying to explain.

Yes i understand you perfectly, body differences and colors.

To be honest, because i'm compeltely new this i dont catch the color differences like you, for example the nosy be from what i saw tends towards blue but probably you know a lot more and see smaller differences that i dont get right know.

Anyway, maybe I'll cheat with the color , I want to be faithful to the shape but with the color probably i'll choose a configuration i like and that's all, just to get a color that I love

I also accept suggestions, no problem for that.

Thank you again.

 

[kinyonga]

If you use the chameleon of someone on here as the model for your sculpture, you could get as many photos as the person is willing to provide you from as many angles as they want to provide for you. That would also give you a good idea of the colours of that one chameleon.

 

[jorginhone]

If you use the chameleon of someone on here as the model for your sculpture, you could get as many photos as the person is willing to provide you from as many angles as they want to provide for you. That would also give you a good idea of the colours of that one chameleon.

Thank you anyway.

What can i say with all the respect to this forum?

Thanks for nothing.

 

[kinyonga]

Sorry your health is giving you problems. Hope you get your issues solved.

You said…”I want to be faithful to the shape but with the color probably i'll choose a configuration i like and that's all, just to get a color that I love”…as I said….there are thought to be a few species of furcifer pardalis…some of which have slight variations in especially facial/head features and each species comes with its own range of colours….so if you go for the true shape of one species but chose colours you like rather than colours that specific type will have, you will have a chameleon sculpture that fits one species structurally but not be a true representation of the specific species due to the incorrect colours. It will be fine for you but will not be true to whatever species you chose to take the body form from.

It doesn’t matter to me which way you go…it’s your sculpture and you have to do what you want. To be faithful to the shape, your still going to have to get enough photos of one specific species to use to get your sculpture right…then make the colour choices that make you happy even if they wouldn’t exist on that species.

That’s all I have to say on it. I hope you get the results you want.

One more site…
Panther locales…

 

[jorginhone]

Sorry your health is giving you problems. Hope you get your issues solved.

You said…”I want to be faithful to the shape but with the color probably i'll choose a configuration i like and that's all, just to get a color that I love”…as I said….there are thought to be a few species of furcifer pardalis…some of which have slight variations in especially facial/head features and each species comes with its own range of colours….so if you go for the true shape of one species but chose colours you like rather than colours that specific type will have, you will have a chameleon sculpture that fits one species structurally but not be a true representation of the specific species due to the incorrect colours. It will be fine for you but will not be true to whatever species you chose to take the body form from.

It doesn’t matter to me which way you go…it’s your sculpture and you have to do what you want. To be faithful to the shape, your still going to have to get enough photos of one specific species to use to get your sculpture right…then make the colour choices that make you happy even if they wouldn’t exist on that species.

That’s all I have to say on it. I hope you get the results you want.

One more site…
Panther locales…

IDK why but i can't edit my message.

Sorry I shouldn't have said anything.

Thanks again for your comment and the new video.

T his will sound contradictory but I'm definitely going to postpone this project for something in the future, no idea when, not because of the photos, I think I have to learn more before facing this animal, about measures, how to look at the photos etc.

Anyway, thanks for all the support!

If someone can close the thread, no one will waste the time reading by accident