Need help; Taking over care of a 3yr old Veiled

[Oliviabryant]

If you have anyway to purchase or borrow -

The comparative behavior of chameleons by H. Robert Bustard

You may find it very helpful if not at least interesting.

You can pay to download it here -
http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.23...&uid=83&uid=63&uid=3739256&sid=21102566648141

 

[Oliviabryant]

These are the only two pics the owner sent me. Only thing that really stuck out to me was the fact that he appears to be or have shedded recently. Pics are 1-2 weeks old they said.

I was planning on feeding him at breakfast every day, and then lunch on monday, wednesday, friday, saturday and sunday at the same time if possible. But Tuesday and Thursdays I won't be able to feed him until 5:30pm or later which means he will be going 12-16 hours without food. I read that Veiled's will eat lettuce, so I was going to try that.

He does look dehydrated and a bit slim, I suggest purchasing a large supply of silk worms which you can get from the site sponsors costal silk worms or mulberry farms. You will probably want to purchase the pod of worms because learning silk worm set ups and care on top of chameleon care may be over whelming. The moisture content and well as overall nutuonal value will perk this little guy up.
I highly suggest if you have the means to purchase something other than the bird cage, that you act on the opportunity. Chameleons love to hunt their food and it gives a great amount of stimulation and independence. Especially with a new home you want him to feel happy and to recreate a natural environment. It will also help with humidity greatly!
I use a reptarium enclosure that is 29X29X72 and is by far the best out there! Besides a homemade enclosure of course.
The very fine mesh keeps the humidity high, it can with stand 350 degrees so you do not have to worry about the basking light ruining it. The nylon will not give your chameleon the chance to have its nails removed which has happened countless times with aluminum mesh enclosures. Since he is already stressed he is prone to rubbing on the enclosure and causing abrasions (and yes this is fairly common) since the nylon is soft and finely woven he should not come close to having those issues.

Here is the minimum requirements for an adult male veiled -

http://www.reptiledirect.com/reptarium175.aspx

 

[Kate]

At three years old he may have cut down his eating. My tro and a half old panther eats every 2-3 days and that's normal for him.

 

[Poptartjake]

@Olivia: You are absolutely amazing! Just a never ending trough of knowledge when it comes to Cham care. As of that book, I will look into it. My current plan for a cage is to use the bird cage for short term, probably 1-3 weeks, hopefully no longer. Then, I would like to build a 36" x 36" x 60" with mesh walls and a aluminum screen top (maybe not aluminum, depends on what I can find). I was unsure whether I need to do any treatments to the wood I use for the skeletal structure of the cage because I know we bake all wood we get from outside (I.E...branches, twigs, etc..) so I was unsure about something like a 2x4....Any special mesh I should use? Maybe a certain width on the holes?
On a completely unrelated to Cham's note: I will never buy something from JSTOR after Aaron Swartz's death.

@Kate: I had read that adult Cham's wouldn't need to eat as often as youngin's that are still growing, but like Olivia pointed out, he looks skinny from those pictures.

I assume that the best route to bringing him to a healthy weight will be a consistent, nutrient rich diet with as much variety as I can provide (Or that he will eat..)?

 

[Oliviabryant]

I would really focus on using silkworms to boost his health back up. Chams can not resist them. My veiled is a very picky eater and he will race across his enclosure when he sees me reaching in their bin for some. It will also help with hand feeding, obviously worms are easier to handle then crickets. Dubia roaches are also great feeders they have a lot of meat and practically never die.

As for fruits and veggies I will give you a website that you can rely on for great info, I know it says iguana but it is 100% applicable

http://www.greenigsociety.org/foodchart.htm

 

[Poptartjake]

Thanks bunches for all the advice. Still haven't heard back from the owners (been about a day) so I am unsure if they are still wanting/needing to re-home him. Guess I will just see what the day brings. If I don't end up getting this Cham, I think I am going to begin building an enclosure at around 16 x 16 x 24 or so with hopes of getting a 3-4 month old male Veiled in the near future...That would be my desired out come, but I worry about raising a little guy since I am not home for 8+ hours at a time.

 

[Kate]

Thanks bunches for all the advice. Still haven't heard back from the owners (been about a day) so I am unsure if they are still wanting/needing to re-home him. Guess I will just see what the day brings. If I don't end up getting this Cham, I think I am going to begin building an enclosure at around 16 x 16 x 24 or so with hopes of getting a 3-4 month old male Veiled in the near future...That would be my desired out come, but I worry about raising a little guy since I am not home for 8+ hours at a time.

8hrs is ok as long as he can be misted. An automatic mister is a bonus. Silkworms. Mmm I love them as a feeder but Popeye will only eat two and I have to find something else. Dubais would be great, and I have loads breeding but he won't look at them. Lots more pets for our household.LOL

 

[Poptartjake]

@Kate: You said 8 hours is okay, especially with an automatic mister. So, plans have changed a bit and I will not be taking over care of this 3 year old brat. Instead, I have found a local breeder who has some 3 week old baby Veiled's for sale and for an awesome price. My new plan is to get a baby translucent male. Being that they are so young still, I know I will need to keep him in a tub most likely. But, once he is, say, 2 months old, would he be okay in a 18x18x24 cage? Or is that too big? Next, I would have to invest in a ReptiRain for misting since I have school/work during the day. When it comes to feeding I once again worry that the inability to give him lunch on Tuesday and Thursdays would be a issue.

Can I just leave some crix or maybe a worm or two in the tank before I left on those days?

 

[absolutbill]

Just thought I'd jump in here after following this thread. That's great that you want to get a cham even though it fell through with you taking on the 3 year old brat. IMHO, I wouldn't get a 3 week old veiled. Most reputable breeders on here wouldn't sell one that young, especially to someone who has never had a chameleon before. Typically they will hold them until they are 2-3 months old, and a bit more stable - think of it like getting a puppy before it's 6 or 8 weeks old. There are always plenty of chams available in the classifieds, or ask the breeder if they will hold your cham for another month. I'm not saying this as discouragement - I've seen how much research, time, and effort you have put in so far, and I think it's great. However, I'd hate to see you get such a tiny baby and lose him because he was simply too young.

When you do get a cham, he/she will be just fine in an 18x18x24 until they are about 4-5 months old (depending on size and growth rate), and then it's time for a larger cage. Once they get to be 1 year old, I cut their feeding down to every 2 days - it's every day until about 8 months, then gradually wean them down to every 2 days, which will work better with your schedule. You mentioned putting food in there before you leave in the mornings - will your lights be on by then? If so, that's fine to do - you just don't want to feed them too late in the day because they need the heat from their lights to digest their meal before going to sleep. Good luck with whatever you decide to do, and feel free to PM me if you have further questions, though it looks like Olivia and Kate have you well on your way!

 

[Poptartjake]

Just thought I'd jump in here after following this thread. That's great that you want to get a cham even though it fell through with you taking on the 3 year old brat. IMHO, I wouldn't get a 3 week old veiled. Most reputable breeders on here wouldn't sell one that young, especially to someone who has never had a chameleon before. Typically they will hold them until they are 2-3 months old, and a bit more stable - think of it like getting a puppy before it's 6 or 8 weeks old. There are always plenty of chams available in the classifieds, or ask the breeder if they will hold your cham for another month. I'm not saying this as discouragement - I've seen how much research, time, and effort you have put in so far, and I think it's great. However, I'd hate to see you get such a tiny baby and lose him because he was simply too young.

When you do get a cham, he/she will be just fine in an 18x18x24 until they are about 4-5 months old (depending on size and growth rate), and then it's time for a larger cage. Once they get to be 1 year old, I cut their feeding down to every 2 days - it's every day until about 8 months, then gradually wean them down to every 2 days, which will work better with your schedule. You mentioned putting food in there before you leave in the mornings - will your lights be on by then? If so, that's fine to do - you just don't want to feed them too late in the day because they need the heat from their lights to digest their meal before going to sleep. Good luck with whatever you decide to do, and feel free to PM me if you have further questions, though it looks like Olivia and Kate have you well on your way!

I know I've said it before, but BEST. FORUM. EVER. I completely agree with the waiting idea and personally, I am thinking the youngest I should take is 6-7 weeks assuming they are a bit bigger then the rest of the pack. I'm going to get a 18x18x24 cage with a ReptiRain for my misting needs. I'll have to start him on crix but since I am not looking to get one for at least a week, I could start growing/gut loading some food. I am kinda lost on what to do for interior still. I know how I want it to look, but my local pet stores seem to be lacking in the fake plastic (not silk) plants. They have a decent selection of Grapevine and some fake sticks that I could use but I know he needs as much foliage as possible. Should I check out some aquarium stores for fake plants for fish? I also need to get some kind of potted plant I can use for showering and sun bathing outside, if I am correct.

 

[Oliviabryant]

Honestly I loved veileds but its not the best breed to start with because of the way they can act. I'd spring for a panther because they are generally more forgiving with their attitudes and you can get a better feel for handling and such.

 

[Poptartjake]

Honestly I loved veileds but its not the best breed to start with because of the way they can act. I'd spring for a panther because they are generally more forgiving with their attitudes and you can get a better feel for handling and such.

A male Panther generally tends to run much higher then a male Veiled, correct me if I am wrong.

EDIT: I also worry about getting a female panther in place of a male....Yeah, a male panther is gonna run me $400 or so from the breeder. I would rather chance raising the Veiled.

 

[Oliviabryant]

A male Panther generally tends to run much higher then a male Veiled, correct me if I am wrong.

EDIT: I also worry about getting a female panther in place of a male....Yeah, a male panther is gonna run me $400 or so from the breeder. I would rather chance raising the Veiled.

Understandable, however you don't have to pay 400$ for a male panther.In fact mine is from epic chameleons and i paid 175.00 HOWEVER that is not their list price i just was waiting to come across a local deal. Check out the Chameleon company. You can purchase a male ambi for 170.00

 

[Kate]

I have had two male veileds. The first was a sweetheart. The second was evil so really you are never sure what you are getting. My second was six months old and hadn't been socialised. 2-3 months is just fine. Don't know much about repti rain but check the price difference between that and Aquazamp and mistking. The latter two are the best on the market. Live plants are best. They help with humidity and the leaves hold the water better. I have a ficus and pothus in there and silk ivy strands fixed to the sides. Bought them from shop that sells stuff for flower aranging.

 

[absolutbill]

I'd be careful of fake or silk plants, as veileds are known to munch on their foliage and you wouldn't want impaction. Try your local Home Depot/Lowes, or even the garden section of Walmart or Target. Typically in their "office plants" section you can find what you need, and that's where I get the majority of mine. I use a cane plant primarily, but the last few I've bought had pothos planted in the pot as well, so I call that double bonus! As for your fake vines, get a variety of widths so that you can use the thickest one for his main highways and then you use the smaller ones to tie off on the thick ones and create a vertical climb as well. Finally, I've been using a wooden bird ladder as a climb for my chams - the panthers love theirs, but my veiled hates it (and everything else in the world). Just an idea - the ladders have 2 hooks on the top, and I just hook them securely into one of the fake vines. Good luck!

 

[Kate]

I'd be careful of fake or silk plants, as veileds are known to munch on their foliage and you wouldn't want impaction. Try your local Home Depot/Lowes, or even the garden section of Walmart or Target. Typically in their "office plants" section you can find what you need, and that's where I get the majority of mine. I use a cane plant primarily, but the last few I've bought had pothos planted in the pot as well, so I call that double bonus! As for your fake vines, get a variety of widths so that you can use the thickest one for his main highways and then you use the smaller ones to tie off on the thick ones and create a vertical climb as well. Finally, I've been using a wooden bird ladder as a climb for my chams - the panthers love theirs, but my veiled hates it (and everything else in the world). Just an idea - the ladders have 2 hooks on the top, and I just hook them securely into one of the fake vines. Good luck!

Good point. The only things that eat my plants are the locusts.LOL I currently have a panther that doesn't eat leaves but veileds do!

 

[Oliviabryant]

Ill have to dig up an old video I have of my veiled. He doesn't eat his leaves he will actually bite a chunk out and spit it out. I don't know why he's always done this. I've only actually ever seen him eat one piece and I only knew because I found it in his poop.

 

[Poptartjake]

Against some of your guy's (and gal's) advice, I will be starting with a baby. I will be ordering a MistKing, and setting up a 18x18x24 cage this week. I know I wont be putting him in it for a week or two, maybe more. So, I will also be setting up a baby tub with raised lights (UVB and a normal florescent).

 

[jmacphee9]

How old is your new guy? I had my 5 week old in a 18*18*24 and he was fine. At four-ish months I switched him to a tall cage, I thin he could of stayed in the small cage for a few more months but I needed to return my zoo med cage before anymore rust came! Didn't even make it a month!

 

[Oliviabryant]

How old is your new guy? I had my 5 week old in a 18*18*24 and he was fine. At four-ish months I switched him to a tall cage, I thin he could of stayed in the small cage for a few more months but I needed to return my zoo med cage before anymore rust came! Didn't even make it a month!

You can put a baby in a 24x24x48 if you want it won't hurt them. The reason people advise you to use a smaller one is because of the way they feed. Obviously in a large cage it's harder for them to find food but if you hand feed or put it in a cup it's not an issue.