my veiled baby seems sick!

katsymoon

New Member
Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - Veiled Cham, male, about 4 months I guess. He's with me for about 2 months now.
Handling - I try not to handle him since he still looks like shy or not used to being in the house. but recently, I had to get him out of cage because of some probs.
Feeding - I feed him crickets and mealworms. he used to be with another baby cham (female). I had them both in the same cage since I got them first; but now they're separated since the female gets bigger (think male couldn't get enough food) I used to give them about 30 crickets per day, mostly 20 of them were eaten by female. so he got only like 10? maybe?
Supplements - I have Flucker's Calcium with Vitamin D
Watering - I have bunch of ways to provide water. I mist hard 3-4 times a day, have a dropper, and also water in the bottom.
Fecal Description - white stuff and dark drown.
History - first few days since I got him, he didn't eat like for couple of days. and eating, drinking fine after that.

Cage Info:
Cage Type - I had 2foot 2foot 4foot cage. but I found him at the bottom like few times (think he fell) so I got a new cage 30L*12W*30H. He's been in the new cage for 5 days now. Both cage are made by glasses and screen tops.
Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
Temperature - temp is about 80-90. basking spot about 100. but since it's hot nowadays, I try not to turn on basking spot.
Humidity - 60-80 mostly. I use a regular temp and humidity measure together. (not digital one)
Plants - I had only fakes but I put a live one about 2 wks ago (pothos)
Placement - The big cage was located at the corner of my room. I live in a studio so I don't know how to explain the small cage is located. it's not located like traffic area.
Location - I'm in SoCalifornia.

Current Problem - I found the female one hissing at the male. when I first got them, the male one was bigger than the female but now the female is much bigger than the male. guess she eats most of the food. I found him at the bottom of cage couple of times, and when I found him last, he looks really sick at the bottom. so I took him out, put him in a really small cage. then went out to buy a new cage for him. He's been in the new cage for 5 days now. he has several problems. He doesn't seem like have energy on the front feet. he grabs the plans using his rear legs but usually just hanging there. he doesn't grab using his tail also. at first, i thought his tail might be injured but it looks fine. He just seems like has no energy to be in the tree. I thought he refused to eat, but I was looking at him yesterday and find another problem. He was trying to eat mealworms few times but got nothing. I thought he was trying to drink but then he seemed like can't catch the food at all. maybe tongue problem? his eyes look fine. so I'm not sure if he has visual problem or tongue problem. the tongue doesn't seem like working. What should I do? What's the problem??? Please help!!! and if anyone lives in SoCal, and know a good vet for reptile! please let me know!! I'm soooo worried! =[
 

jannb

Chameleon Enthusiast
You need to find a good reptile vet and get this guy there ASAP. Then you need to correct your husbandry. You can find a good vet in your area here: https://www.chameleonforums.com/area-area-country-vet-list-32880/

Lower the heat....you are cooking him. His basking spot should be about 83 or 84. The lower part of the cage should be in the low to mid 70's. The feeders have to be "lightly" dusted with 3 kinds of supplements. Plain calcium (no d3) at just about every feeding...... if you skip one or two days a month that's ok. Calcium with d3 twice a month and a multi. vit. once a month. What kind of lighting are you using?
 
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carol5208

Chameleon Enthusiast
You did not say what kind of UVB lighting you are using. How often have you been dusting with the calcium with d3, everyday since you had him? Agreed with JannB, basking spot WAY too hot!! also, you mentioned "water" in the bottom, what does that mean? You should not have any containers of water in the cage at all.
 

Carlton

Chameleon Enthusiast
You need to find a good reptile vet and get this guy there ASAP. Then you need to correct your husbandry. You can find a good vet in your area here: https://www.chameleonforums.com/area-area-country-vet-list-32880/

Lower the heat....you are cooking him. His basking spot should be about 83 or 84. The feeders have to be "lightly" dusted with 3 kinds of supplements. Plain calcium (no d3) at just about every feeding...... if you skip one or two days a month that's ok. Calcium with d3 twice a month and a multi. vit. once a month. What kind of lighting are you using?
Yes, we need to know the BRAND of light you are using. They need two types...one plain household light bulb for basking and a UV producing fluorescent tube light like the ReptiSun 5.0. Without the correct UV lighting they can't metabolize the calcium in their diet and end up with Metabolic Bone Disease (basically rickets). This may be part of his symptoms. What are you feeding the insects? Dusting insects that are not full of nutrients isn't very helpful. Also, if he's dehydrated (from being too hot and too dry) he won't eat either.
 

katsymoon

New Member
I use 5.0 uvb light. and since it's hotter nowadays, I don't use basking spot no more. I dust calcium with vitamin D like twice a week. I couldn't find any store where sells only calcium. (keep looking for it). I just made an appointment with a vet, hope he doesn't get worse til I see the vet. =[
 

carol5208

Chameleon Enthusiast
I use 5.0 uvb light. and since it's hotter nowadays, I don't use basking spot no more. I dust calcium with vitamin D like twice a week. I couldn't find any store where sells only calcium. (keep looking for it). I just made an appointment with a vet, hope he doesn't get worse til I see the vet. =[
you can order the plain calcium at LLL Reptile. They have all different brands. I use Sticky Tongue Farms Miner-all OUTDOOR forumula. They have an indoor calcium but that contains d3 which you already have. You should have asked us, and we could have told you where to get it. You have had him for 2 months now.
 

katsymoon

New Member
you can order the plain calcium at LLL Reptile. They have all different brands. I use Sticky Tongue Farms Miner-all OUTDOOR forumula. They have an indoor calcium but that contains d3 which you already have. You should have asked us, and we could have told you where to get it. You have had him for 2 months now.
so I'm looking at the website. I need to buy only plain calcium. right? Sticky Tongue Farms Miner-all Outdoor or indoor?
 

carol5208

Chameleon Enthusiast
so I'm looking at the website. I need to buy only plain calcium. right? Sticky Tongue Farms Miner-all Outdoor or indoor?
Correct, just plain calcium. Outdoor contains no D3. Indoor does. If you have calcium with D3, then get the outdoor forumula.
 

kinyonga

Chameleon Enthusiast
When is the appointment with the vet?? These critters crash quickly and since he's already showing signs of not being well...you likely don't have much time.

If the chameleon hasn't been eating, it would not be getting the nutrients needed to be healthy. Also...when it is eating, you are giving it calcium with D3 which can build up in the system and mimic MBD. The poor tongue use, the sitting on the bottom of the cage/falling could indicate this....however since he also is hanging by his back legs and not using his tail to hold on there could be a lot more going on.

I sincerely hope that your female doesn't end up sick too since you didn't quarantine him from her in the beginning.
 
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katsymoon

New Member
When is the appointment with the vet?? These critters crash quickly and since he's already showing signs of not being well...you likely don't have much time.

If the chameleon hasn't been eating, it would not be getting the nutrients needed to be healthy. Also...when it is eating, you are giving it calcium with D3 which can build up in the system and mimic MBD. The poor tongue use, the sitting on the bottom of the cage/falling could indicate this....however since he also is hanging by his back legs and not using his tail to hold on there could be a lot more going on.

I sincerely hope that your female doesn't end up sick too since you didn't quarantine him from her in the beginning.
The appointment was on Sat 3pm but I was so worried if he can't keep up til that time so I skipped my class.... then went to see the vet. The vet said he looks okay. She gave me some medicine and a can food for nutrients (she web searched and find a product that reptiles can eat. It's a dog/cat can food tho.) she said mix the can food with water and feed him. So I did. He got some medicine too. After seeing the vet, he looks better. I'm not sure if the vet really knows about chameleons tho.. because my female and male are about the same age and female is much bigger but the vet said he's good size. I'm not really sure about that. HOWEVER, Last night, he was hanging at the top (tree) using all of his legs and tail too and sleeping. His color seems better too. I hope it's a good sign... hope the vet is right.
 

sdheli420

Established Member
The appointment was on Sat 3pm but I was so worried if he can't keep up til that time so I skipped my class.... then went to see the vet. The vet said he looks okay. She gave me some medicine and a can food for nutrients (she web searched and find a product that reptiles can eat. It's a dog/cat can food tho.) she said mix the can food with water and feed him. So I did. He got some medicine too. After seeing the vet, he looks better. I'm not sure if the vet really knows about chameleons tho.. because my female and male are about the same age and female is much bigger but the vet said he's good size. I'm not really sure about that. HOWEVER, Last night, he was hanging at the top (tree) using all of his legs and tail too and sleeping. His color seems better too. I hope it's a good sign... hope the vet is right.
if he is not eating and you HAVE to force feed him..ditch the can food (that stuff is bad for them) and crush up some crickets with a light dust of calcium and put them in a small syringe(no needle of course)..feed him the mashed crickets from that..
 

katsymoon

New Member
if he is not eating and you HAVE to force feed him..ditch the can food (that stuff is bad for them) and crush up some crickets with a light dust of calcium and put them in a small syringe(no needle of course)..feed him the mashed crickets from that..
The vet gave me some syringes to feed him. I don't know why she gave me the can food if it's bad for them =[ so you mean crush some dead (dried) crickets and dust with calcium and feed him using syringe? no water added? How can I make him open his mouth? he doesn't hiss when I'm holding syringe. =[
 

Carlton

Chameleon Enthusiast
The vet gave me some syringes to feed him. I don't know why she gave me the can food if it's bad for them =[ so you mean crush some dead (dried) crickets and dust with calcium and feed him using syringe? no water added? How can I make him open his mouth? he doesn't hiss when I'm holding syringe. =[
She gave you canned food because she doesn't understand the nutritional needs of chams and because most vets put too much faith in commercial foods. She doesn't realize some of the food's byproducts will cause more harm than good. You need to crush live crickets that are full of good gutload (you are basically feeding him what he would normally get)...those dried ones are pretty nasty.
 

katsymoon

New Member
She gave you canned food because she doesn't understand the nutritional needs of chams and because most vets put too much faith in commercial foods. She doesn't realize some of the food's byproducts will cause more harm than good. You need to crush live crickets that are full of good gutload (you are basically feeding him what he would normally get)...those dried ones are pretty nasty.
Can I add water when I crush those live crickets?
 
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