my male 7 month Veiled is sick

[Cham101]

handling - as little as possible

feeding - Mainly crickets gutloaded with cricket foor, veggies, tropical fish flakes, cricket quencher etc.

supplements - herpcare by mardel.. will start to supplement d3 2 times a month now...

watering - mist about 6-7 times daily

fecal description - dark black\brown with white

History - had since it was an egg

cage - 2x2x4 screen cage

lighting - 100 basking light and reptisun 10.0 uvb linear bulb(1yr old) just order 2 tonight

temp - 70 at bottom up to 94 basking

humidity - mist 6-7 times a day and plants

plants - hibiscus and shefflera

location - out of the way

Dallas/Fort Worth

well, i fed him today and we seemed active and fine and after maybe an hour I went back to check on hm and he was laying on the ground twithing.. I got him out and was able to revive him.. but he is not his self yet. i am thinking that my UVB light was to old and he has not been getting the lighting he needs to naturaly create d3. i was told by my breeder not to supplement d3 if h is supplied proper calcium and lighting.. Well, the bulb is not putting out sufficient UVB and maybe lack of d3. Going to buy some calcium w/ d3 supplement. I am now curious if anone has ever used Herpcare which is made by Mardel. It was what I was told to use as a daily dust... I have 3 3yr. old veileds that have been very healthy and show no signs of MBD but this poor guy is suffering and I hate it. i will post pics asap... please let me know what you think

 

[kinyonga]

Its always a bit of a surprise when one raises one that ends up with MBD and others that don't. Where they all from the same parents? Raised by you for their whole lives? Have the females produced eggs?

Check the Mardel for phos., calcium, d3 and vitamin A and the fish and cricket food too...even if your females aren't showing any problems, you should make sure that these things are in balance.

 

[Elizadolots]

It seems odd that it would go so bad so quickly..

I think you're right to replace your bulb...I think that should be done if there is the least question about the bulb.

You'll need to do minimal D-3 supplementation. Not every day, but also not "never"...I believe twice a month is the sort of standard recommendation around here.

I just wonder if it wasn't something rather immediate, like maybe he ate a feeder that was too big and that was difficult? I don't know, but it just seems so weird that the time frame from "fine" to "on the floor" is so tight.

**edited to ask**

Kinyonga, how do you diagnose MBD from the description the poster gave?

 

[kinyonga]

I didn't say it had MBD the OP indicated it.
I just said that its odd that one could raise several chameleons under the same husbandry and one would get it....of course I didn't think about the light in this case being a difference from one to the other...if it only covers one cage.

 

[Elizadolots]

No, he didn't. He said he has 3 year old veileds with no MBD. I took that to mean he thought MBD was unlikely.

 

[kinyonga]

Cham101 said..."the bulb is not putting out sufficient UVB and he has not been getting the lighting he needs to naturaly create d3"...which makes me wonder about it being MBD.

 

[Cham101]

help my boy

ok... to explain the lighing.. I have 2 males 7 months under same lighting.. sharing the 48" flourescent.. It was the extra I had from my big chameleons. It was used for 6 months and stored for another6-9months. I am really interested in a meter for monitoring my UVB output.. Please anyone that knows where i could source one please let me know so this will never happen again.. the reason i think it is MBD is that I have some 2 1/2 week olds and they are showing signs of MBD in the joints and they were using the same light as the boys.. as I said the adults look great and the other boy is fine but I have to relate the babies and the other boy as he was healthy and beautiful up until he went down. The babies are the key link I think for the boy. You cannot supplement babies right?? so it must be the light right?. this just started showing the other day. i was concerned and ordered the new bulbs.. now this happens.. He won't move much at all but is still hanging in there.. Any vets in the DFW that is open on saturdays??? tht don't charge an arm and a leg??

 

[Cham101]

please.. anyone with any advice.. please help. he is not well.. if someone knows a vet here in dallas open on the weekends let me know... anything you migh think might help him.. I did see leftover pieces of a cricket hanging from his lips when I found him but he is hanging in there but not getting better. anythoughts???

 

[panthercham]

I found these 2 vets on Herp Vet Connection...not sure if they are open but worth a try....good luck with your boy and let us know what happens.

Dallas
Sue Chastain, Clint Chastain, & Cheryl Pfeffer, DVM
Preston Road Animal Hospital
6060 Lyndon B. Johnson Fwy
Dallas, TX 75240
Tel: (972) 239-1309

Dr. Kemba Marshall
Summertree Animal & Bird Clinic
12300 Inwood Rd. Ste 102
Dallas, TX 75244
Tel: (972) 387-4168
Fax: (972) 490-0944

 

[Cham101]

we lost him

unfortunately he did not make it to the vet. he was such a pretty boy. We are sooo sad. i found one in Southlake it was a 24hr clinic and they had someone there but when I got back home he was dead.. Please give me any of your opinions on things to do to avaoid this in the future. I already got the new bulbs ordered and I got some supplement w/ d3. So I guess the consenus is 2 times a month w/ d 3 and about the same w/ a multivitamin?? anyone ever use Herpcare by mardel? My breeder recommended it as a daily dust..I am going to try to find the ratio of ingredients in there.. Please let me know of anything you guys might think would help avoid this in the future. We will miss him..

 

[pssh]

I'm sorry!

Herpcare contains both d3 and a preformed vitamin A. I wouldn't give it more than once every couple months just in case. Use a plain old calcium without d3 at most feedings (especially as young ones), a d3 2 or so times a month depending on brand, and a multivitamin once or twice a month. I wouldn't use the fish flakes anymore either.

Just keep reading and researching for next time.

 

[Cham101]

herpcare

ok... it does have d3 and vitamin a.. so will this work for d3 twice a month or will it have to much vitamin a? I have a calcium supplement I will start using every feeding. So would you consider herpcare as what kind of supplement? Will it be sufficient d3 if i use it 2 times a month? I guess maybe they have been oversupplemented w/ d3.. So why would my cham die?? Sounds like MBD.. the bulb was bad but with the d3 supplementing would it not help? Just want to avoid this from now on.. please let me know what you guys think

 

[Cham101]

herpcare

precipitated calcium carbonate, dried kelp, choline bitarate, ferrous sulfate, Beta carotene, ascorbic acid, niacin, manganous oxide, magnesium oxide, potassium chloride, dl-alpha tocopheryl acetate, thiamine mononitrate, pyridoxine hdrochloride, riboflavin, calcium pantothenate, zinc oxide, vitamin b12 supplement, BHT, folic acid, menadione sodium bisulfite complex(source of vitamin k), ethoxyquin, cholecalciferol(source of vitamin D3), vitamin a acetate and biotin.

 

[sallyb]

I`m so sorry he didn`t make it, poor little boy.

 

[BocaJan]

I use the Rep-Cal brand in calcium, calcium with D3 and the multi-vitamin. My dose is lightly dust every day with calcium. On the 14th day or 2x/month I use the calcium with D3 instead and on the first of every month I only use the multi-vitamins. Please use very sparingly. Don't "ghost" dust the crickets. Too heavy of the multi-vitamins could cause gular edema.

I have a couple wooden coffee stirrer sticks that I use. I take a tiny bit on the end and sprinkle it over the crickets. It is plenty.

Solar Meter 6.2 is the UVB meter I use. If you search on UVB meters you will find comparisons. The cheaper ones don't measure the correct UVB waves. I have seen used ones being advertised which you might try because they are pricey. You might even be able to hook up with someone close to you with one that will come over and measure your bulbs. 6 months is about average for a bulb to last. Sometimes you get lucky and they last about 9 months, but I never push it without measuring 1x/month. I even keep a log of my measurements so I don't mess up. MBD is awful! If you are unsure and can't get new bulbs ASAP put your little ones outside for awhile every day, or just leave them outside in their cages as long as they can get some shade if it gets too hot they will be fine.

 

[kinyonga]

Sorry for your loss. Its always sad to loss a pet.

I have always supplemented my veiled hatchlings the same way I do with the adults...phos.free calcium powder at most feedings...phos.-free calcium/D3 twice a month...vitamin powder with a beta carotene twice a month.

You said..."the reason i think it is MBD is that I have some 2 1/2 week olds and they are showing signs of MBD in the joints and they were using the same light as the boys"...did the vet say that it was MBD?

 

[Cham101]

i think some are more suceptible to MBD than others as only that one boy and only 2 of the babies are showing slight signs and obviously the large boy had severe symptoms.. yes, the bulb was trash. I have 2 48" linear flourescents for my adults so I borrowed one for now for the babies and boy and girls until my new bulbs come in. I will be change them every 6 months.. i thought it was 1 yr they lasted. My mistake and unfortunately my boy suffered for it. I will make sure it doesn't again..

 

[Cham101]

so will this herpcare work as my d3 supplement 2 times a month???

 

[reptoman]

ok... to explain the lighing.. I have 2 males 7 months under same lighting.. sharing the 48" flourescent.. It was the extra I had from my big chameleons. It was used for 6 months and stored for another6-9months. I am really interested in a meter for monitoring my UVB output.. Please anyone that knows where i could source one please let me know so this will never happen again.. the reason i think it is MBD is that I have some 2 1/2 week olds and they are showing signs of MBD in the joints and they were using the same light as the boys.. as I said the adults look great and the other boy is fine but I have to relate the babies and the other boy as he was healthy and beautiful up until he went down. The babies are the key link I think for the boy. You cannot supplement babies right?? so it must be the light right?. this just started showing the other day. i was concerned and ordered the new bulbs.. now this happens.. He won't move much at all but is still hanging in there.. Any vets in the DFW that is open on saturdays??? tht don't charge an arm and a leg??

Preston Road animal hospital is on the herp vet list.

Dallas
Sue Chastain, Clint Chastain, & Cheryl Pfeffer, DVM
Preston Road Animal Hospital
6060 Lyndon B. Johnson Fwy
Dallas, TX 75240
Tel: (972) 239-1309


They dont charge a visit fee for a first time pet. I got an exam and fecal for $28.

 

[mikeduner]

hey guys where do i get just calcium without d--3 for some reason my petsmart doesnt have it, and my cham is coming tuesday!