Everyone here seems to agree that you should just sit on your hands and be patient. I feel it's like you just got yourself your first girlfriend, and now you're looking to upgrade her for a super model. Stay in your league and what you can handle. Then when you're ready, then you can explore other options.
Much Profit In Breeding?
- Thread starter NewOwner
- Start date
Julirs
New Member
Yep-certainly an expense-my electric bill is up $50.00 a month!
Chameleon Nation
Avid Member
LOL, now that is a way of putting it. It does cost a lot. The start up is so expensive. I have sunk so much money into chameleons this year and not seen a fraction of that back. Like previously said some breeders take years before they start seeing profits.
dodolah
Retired Moderator
Eric Adrignola
Avid Member
For feeders, I'm almost completely off of crickets for my adults. Roaches have taken their place. For the babies, a few cultures of fruit flies helps, but crickets are needed for the early stages. And I am not going to breed crickets just yet. If i had enough volume to necessitate breeding crickets, I'd be breeding too many.
As it stands now, I remember every single clutch that I've hatched. I probably can remember every time I've sold them too - if it was at shows, or online, etc. Every clutch is important. It wouldn't be a hobby otherwise.
If you're new, and try to make a lot of money, odds are you'll become indundated with lots of babies that cost more to raise up than you can get for them... unless you sell them to an online dealer for $5-$10 a piece. Or to a pet store. Only time I sold mine in bulk for cheap was the first time I sold them at the white plains show years ago. I sold the last few I had for $50 a piece just so I wouldnt' have any to bring back. I was getting $125 for them that day... the good old days!
As it stands now, I remember every single clutch that I've hatched. I probably can remember every time I've sold them too - if it was at shows, or online, etc. Every clutch is important. It wouldn't be a hobby otherwise.
If you're new, and try to make a lot of money, odds are you'll become indundated with lots of babies that cost more to raise up than you can get for them... unless you sell them to an online dealer for $5-$10 a piece. Or to a pet store. Only time I sold mine in bulk for cheap was the first time I sold them at the white plains show years ago. I sold the last few I had for $50 a piece just so I wouldnt' have any to bring back. I was getting $125 for them that day... the good old days!
holmesese
Member
Care of my animals, makes it difficult for me to make money... To get enough animals to make a profit takes too much time in care....If I get off work at 5 every day and get home by 5:30 I have to spend at least an hour to an hour and a half general animal maintinence, so it is 7:00 before I eat or do anything else. You have to really like the animals....that hour a day doesn't seem like much time until you want to go out with friends or do something else and you get the urge to skip the general maintinence "for just a day."
If you wanna make money with reptiles on a small scale you have to raise your own feeders or get geckos that you can feed a powdered diet 50% of the time.
If you wanna make money with reptiles on a small scale you have to raise your own feeders or get geckos that you can feed a powdered diet 50% of the time.
NewOwner
New Member
Breeding!
I|I have posted many forums about my breeding plan... everyone thinks im doin it just for the money..
I plan to breed chameleons, for fun, for hobby, just cause i love chameleons...
Everyone says when i made my post "Will i make profit" They think im in it for the money..
I am not in it for the money, i just wanna know if i breed veiled or panther chameleons,
Will i make a profit? will i lose money or will i come out pretty even..?
Thats alls i wanna know...
Please answer and stop leaving comments saying i shouldnt do it if its just for money..
I|I have posted many forums about my breeding plan... everyone thinks im doin it just for the money..
I plan to breed chameleons, for fun, for hobby, just cause i love chameleons...
Everyone says when i made my post "Will i make profit" They think im in it for the money..
I am not in it for the money, i just wanna know if i breed veiled or panther chameleons,
Will i make a profit? will i lose money or will i come out pretty even..?
Thats alls i wanna know...
Please answer and stop leaving comments saying i shouldnt do it if its just for money..
Chameleon Nation
Avid Member
Suggestion
I would say to do as much research as possible and wait to see if our economy picks up.
I would say to do as much research as possible and wait to see if our economy picks up.
Cainschams
New Member
The first thing you should start breeding are feeders. Ive gone through I dont know how many hundreds of dollars for the oh 60 panther babies I have hatched. That is one thing I wish I would have done. I am on my way with silkies but it takes a while to get a good consistent supply rolling. Roaches are pretty easy and I breed those but not all of the babies will eat the nymphs and yes stinky crickets are a must because you pay the same no matter what size and fruit flies although my babies didnt touch one FF.
This will save you money in the long run. It depends also on how you do it if you are to profit, break even, or loose money. I havent tallied everything up like: breeders, caging/lighting supplies, electricity, feeders, TIME!!!!!, etc. although I am sure I havent broke even. However, I did profit very much in experience, the joy of raising healthy babies from a good line, and the joy of making someone else happy. THESE PROFITS ARE PRICELESS!!!!!
crickets are a must because you pay the same no matter what size and fruit flies although my babies didnt touch one FF.This will save you money in the long run. It depends also on how you do it if you are to profit, break even, or loose money. I havent tallied everything up like: breeders, caging/lighting supplies, electricity, feeders, TIME!!!!!, etc. although I am sure I havent broke even. However, I did profit very much in experience, the joy of raising healthy babies from a good line, and the joy of making someone else happy. THESE PROFITS ARE PRICELESS!!!!!
Lol
Now that I think of it, my chameleon career did seem to work out similar to a girlfriend. Here was the steps I experienced in each:
CHAMELEONS:
1. Finding the perfect animals. Expensive to get into, expensive to set up initially, but TONS of fun.
2. Settling in, figuring out details, research research research.
3. Figure out the routine. Crickets Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. Roaches, silkworms and supers the rest.
4. Established. Animals coming and going, very time consuming, lots of paperwork and e-mailing. Occasional angry customers that take all the fun out of it (every breeder experiences this at some point).
5. Burnout. I'm ready for a change. Get rid of them and start something new.
GIRLFRIENDS:
1. Finding the perfect one. Expensive to get into, expensive to impress initially and TONS of fun.
2. Settling in. Date night is Saturday. Research research research. You were engaged how many times?
3. Figure out the routine. You sleep at my place on the weekends, and I'll stay with you on Wednesdays.
4. Established. You do my laundry, and I'll cover food on date night.
5. Burnout. I'm ready for a change. Get rid of them and start something new.
Now that I think of it, my chameleon career did seem to work out similar to a girlfriend. Here was the steps I experienced in each:
CHAMELEONS:
1. Finding the perfect animals. Expensive to get into, expensive to set up initially, but TONS of fun.
2. Settling in, figuring out details, research research research.
3. Figure out the routine. Crickets Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. Roaches, silkworms and supers the rest.
4. Established. Animals coming and going, very time consuming, lots of paperwork and e-mailing. Occasional angry customers that take all the fun out of it (every breeder experiences this at some point).
5. Burnout. I'm ready for a change. Get rid of them and start something new.
GIRLFRIENDS:
1. Finding the perfect one. Expensive to get into, expensive to impress initially and TONS of fun.
2. Settling in. Date night is Saturday. Research research research. You were engaged how many times?
3. Figure out the routine. You sleep at my place on the weekends, and I'll stay with you on Wednesdays.
4. Established. You do my laundry, and I'll cover food on date night.
5. Burnout. I'm ready for a change. Get rid of them and start something new.
Debmonster
New Member
Rotflmao :d :d
Eric Adrignola
Avid Member
Good analogy - and I'll add to it.
Sometimes, even when you think everything is going allright - everything was so well planned - you seem happy, THEY seem happy... then it all falls apart. Could be anything.
Might have been somethign you did, somethign they did - or something out of your hands altogether.
Esentially, when you engage in any venture that relies on something as variable as biological processes, you will be met with the unexpected. You'll probably lose money at first. After a while, you'll be better able to deal with such weird things,and your hobby will even out.
Everyone spends money at first - if it's just setting up a hobby, or starting a business. If you learn as you go, your hobby will be more and more affordable (even if you're not breeding and selling animals). A clutch here and there, you may make back some money. Eventually, you may break even, possibly profit.
There's few hobbies that allow for that possibility.
If you do not set out with the goal of making money, but instead try to be successful at keeping and raising the animals, you'll end up spending less and making more in the end.
If you set out trying to profit ASAP (and you havent' found a way to mass produce parsonii or C.minor), odds are you'll lose a whole bunch of money and end up with hundreds of baby animals that petsmart might buy for less than what you spent on them.
Sometimes, even when you think everything is going allright - everything was so well planned - you seem happy, THEY seem happy... then it all falls apart. Could be anything.
Might have been somethign you did, somethign they did - or something out of your hands altogether.
Esentially, when you engage in any venture that relies on something as variable as biological processes, you will be met with the unexpected. You'll probably lose money at first. After a while, you'll be better able to deal with such weird things,and your hobby will even out.
Everyone spends money at first - if it's just setting up a hobby, or starting a business. If you learn as you go, your hobby will be more and more affordable (even if you're not breeding and selling animals). A clutch here and there, you may make back some money. Eventually, you may break even, possibly profit.
There's few hobbies that allow for that possibility.
If you do not set out with the goal of making money, but instead try to be successful at keeping and raising the animals, you'll end up spending less and making more in the end.
If you set out trying to profit ASAP (and you havent' found a way to mass produce parsonii or C.minor), odds are you'll lose a whole bunch of money and end up with hundreds of baby animals that petsmart might buy for less than what you spent on them.
holmesese
Member
If you want to make money you are also going to have to run your hobby like a business. I keep a separate "reptile" checking account so I keep an eye on just how much I spend on new animals, food, lights, upkeep, feeding the food etc. It keeps the spending a little more frugal, I have been successful thus far at breaking even, but not making a whole lot of money (small scale)
kaity
New Member
=/
If you Hobby breed Vields, and just kind sold the babies for fun you would get an idea for the cost, however if you just have one pair and two hole set ups you are not going to be making much because after you hatch the babies you are going too need two more set ups for the babies, because boy and girls won't get along. That is if any of your hatchinlings survive...
Panthers, honstly would be more on a inital cost however much more profitable in the long run, and after you sell a few babies, you can buy more set ups, and then trade other babies you have for un related babies... and maybe sell a couple Vields on the side, and eventually you will start to see profit.
Or even Breed some Jacksons... and Panthers. That is what I plan to do. Female jacksons can live together, so you don't need a seprate cage for all of yoru girls, and it's okay to house 1 male per ever 3 females... USUALLY. or even have a huge inclouser for your girls keep your boys seprate cages and keep many girls together... and the most common species of Jackson gives live birth, wich usually cuts down on baby deth.
However at first you are going to be in the hole... then eventuay start cutting even, then if you hold out you will start to see profit. not enough to live off though unless you have a hole cham house, with entire rooms set up for them and 10 pairs of chams... It would be a decent addition to a part time job...
PS: just my opnion
If you Hobby breed Vields, and just kind sold the babies for fun you would get an idea for the cost, however if you just have one pair and two hole set ups you are not going to be making much because after you hatch the babies you are going too need two more set ups for the babies, because boy and girls won't get along. That is if any of your hatchinlings survive...
Panthers, honstly would be more on a inital cost however much more profitable in the long run, and after you sell a few babies, you can buy more set ups, and then trade other babies you have for un related babies... and maybe sell a couple Vields on the side, and eventually you will start to see profit.
Or even Breed some Jacksons... and Panthers. That is what I plan to do. Female jacksons can live together, so you don't need a seprate cage for all of yoru girls, and it's okay to house 1 male per ever 3 females... USUALLY. or even have a huge inclouser for your girls keep your boys seprate cages and keep many girls together... and the most common species of Jackson gives live birth, wich usually cuts down on baby deth.
However at first you are going to be in the hole... then eventuay start cutting even, then if you hold out you will start to see profit. not enough to live off though unless you have a hole cham house, with entire rooms set up for them and 10 pairs of chams... It would be a decent addition to a part time job...
PS: just my opnion
chequepoint
New Member
I'm reasonably sure everything in this paragraph is wrong. Including how hardy baby jacksons are.
Quite frankly, The economy is tanking, and the market is over-saturated with hobby breeders. If someone came to me with a business plan to raise chameleons right now I'd laugh at them.
To do it for a living you'd need to be set up like Jim at the Chameleon Company, and I've even noticed a steady drop in his prices this year.
The reality of animal breeding is that if you truly love animals, it isn't the business for you. To be a successful business person, when that $35 dollar chameleon that has already eaten $15 worth of food and used $5 in electricity gets sick and needs $60 in vet treatment, you have to be able to let it die.
Its just like if you're a vet, and someone brings in a sick animal with no way to pay for it, you have to be able to send them back out the door. Its not for everyone.
The pet industry is a business, animals are inventory, and profit is the ultimate goal. If you're the kind of person that can handle it, more power to you. I'm certainly not.
Does that mean I won't breed my chams? No. I might someday. But it does mean that I'm prepared to take care of every animal that I bring into the world, regardless of what it costs me. I will most likely lose money.
sandrachameleon
Chameleon Enthusiast
Well we are agreed on that part
I've bred for the joy of the experience. i fed them expensive food, and kept them in the best possible conditions -for their enjoyment. I lost money, by ensuring they only went to good homes and turning away 15 year old boys who havent done their research.To answer the question - no you will not make profit
mattjillson
New Member
You forgot Tyler that both Chams and Girlfriends/Wives will take half your equity if you aren't careful! Hahaha. Your comparison cracked me up man.
I think everyone would be quite surprised at the loads of money the big guys are hauling around in trucks with gold rims doing this... or actually the lack of money or gold rims, or just gold in general. IMO middle manning animals for a quick buck or dealing with a very small group, maybe a 2.3 max (preferrably smaller like a 1.2), bought at near breeding age is an ideal situation to see a reasonable return on your investment and not wait a few years to see it. But don't buy that Hummer yet, a grand or two goes reeeeal quick and duplicating the same success over and over is really a hard thing to do in the cham business. Selling feeders is where it's at. Those guys must be laughing all the way to the bank at $15-20 per 1000 of whatever size for what they put into it. Moral of the story: mo' Chams equal mo' problems.
I think everyone would be quite surprised at the loads of money the big guys are hauling around in trucks with gold rims doing this... or actually the lack of money or gold rims, or just gold in general. IMO middle manning animals for a quick buck or dealing with a very small group, maybe a 2.3 max (preferrably smaller like a 1.2), bought at near breeding age is an ideal situation to see a reasonable return on your investment and not wait a few years to see it. But don't buy that Hummer yet, a grand or two goes reeeeal quick and duplicating the same success over and over is really a hard thing to do in the cham business. Selling feeders is where it's at. Those guys must be laughing all the way to the bank at $15-20 per 1000 of whatever size for what they put into it. Moral of the story: mo' Chams equal mo' problems.
Eric Adrignola
Avid Member
feeders, yeah... and the reptile food industry is but a small fraction of their business. Jim from Armstrong's said the herp industry is a good boost during the winter - when fishing sales are low! I tell you, bugs are easier to bred than chameleons.
What chequepoint said is kinda pretty much true. You can do it "right", as a hobbyist, and make a profit - but you do have to put one ahead of the other. Because, in any business dealing with nature (farming, animals,etc.) it's not all in your control. There will be a point where you have to put one ahead of the other - profit, or the hobby.
If the hobby is more important, you will have times when you lose money, eventually. That's lessened if you keep things small.
If profit is the main goal - there will be times when the work becomes work, and not a hobby. You'll run the risk of it losing the "fun". And God forbid you run the thing as a primary source of income, and you get into a bad financial situation. You'll end up on the BOI! And THEN try to get back your good name!
Many many people have tried to make money with breeding animals - few do it right. Some keep it small, and sell animals on the side (me). Some go all out, sell a lot, put up big, fancy web-pages, try to sell more, and when they get into a bind, they sell things they shouldnt', to people they shouldn't, and piss off people they shouldn't. When it comes down to selling a sick animal vs. starving your family, you gotta do what you gotta do.
The thing is, the ONLY way to really sell a lot of chameleons in this hobby is to have a good reputation (or be an importer selling to pet stores in massive volume, which requires a good rep too.). You piss people off, and you are done. Usually. I've seen many good people, good knowledgable people, with experience and reputations - SCREW me and others over. Just because they were hemmoraging money.
One thing I DO know, is that many of the really reputable, BIG name breeders, take a hit once in a while. They are succesfull because they know their reptation for quality is more important than any individual sale. If you're on the small scale, that one, rare DOA can really hurt. It would really hurt me - I try to make some money, but a single DOA animal is an expensive hit - shipping isnt' cheap - especially if I'm not dealing in quantity. Plus, it's not like I have a bunch of animals sitting as backups - I had waiting lists for males a few years ago! One DOA would really hurt me. Some breeders, not so much - they might even SEND dead animals. I've seen people almost puke when opeing a box. The dealer sent them an already-ripe dead snake.
All things you gotta consider.
I tell you where there's some money - FISHTANKS. The folks are glasscages.com (twin Oaks) have it. They make, sell and distribute their own tanks. So many middle men cut out,(imagine, what's the WORST thing in the world to ship - a hollow box of glass) costs can go down really far, and they can still make money.
What chequepoint said is kinda pretty much true. You can do it "right", as a hobbyist, and make a profit - but you do have to put one ahead of the other. Because, in any business dealing with nature (farming, animals,etc.) it's not all in your control. There will be a point where you have to put one ahead of the other - profit, or the hobby.
If the hobby is more important, you will have times when you lose money, eventually. That's lessened if you keep things small.
If profit is the main goal - there will be times when the work becomes work, and not a hobby. You'll run the risk of it losing the "fun". And God forbid you run the thing as a primary source of income, and you get into a bad financial situation. You'll end up on the BOI! And THEN try to get back your good name!
Many many people have tried to make money with breeding animals - few do it right. Some keep it small, and sell animals on the side (me). Some go all out, sell a lot, put up big, fancy web-pages, try to sell more, and when they get into a bind, they sell things they shouldnt', to people they shouldn't, and piss off people they shouldn't. When it comes down to selling a sick animal vs. starving your family, you gotta do what you gotta do.
The thing is, the ONLY way to really sell a lot of chameleons in this hobby is to have a good reputation (or be an importer selling to pet stores in massive volume, which requires a good rep too.). You piss people off, and you are done. Usually. I've seen many good people, good knowledgable people, with experience and reputations - SCREW me and others over. Just because they were hemmoraging money.
One thing I DO know, is that many of the really reputable, BIG name breeders, take a hit once in a while. They are succesfull because they know their reptation for quality is more important than any individual sale. If you're on the small scale, that one, rare DOA can really hurt. It would really hurt me - I try to make some money, but a single DOA animal is an expensive hit - shipping isnt' cheap - especially if I'm not dealing in quantity. Plus, it's not like I have a bunch of animals sitting as backups - I had waiting lists for males a few years ago! One DOA would really hurt me. Some breeders, not so much - they might even SEND dead animals. I've seen people almost puke when opeing a box. The dealer sent them an already-ripe dead snake.
All things you gotta consider.
I tell you where there's some money - FISHTANKS. The folks are glasscages.com (twin Oaks) have it. They make, sell and distribute their own tanks. So many middle men cut out,(imagine, what's the WORST thing in the world to ship - a hollow box of glass) costs can go down really far, and they can still make money.
Dave
Avid Member
Sadly selling feeders isn't as profitable as you would think. You've got to factor in all the expensive chow many feeders are fed, DOA replacements, operating costs, die-offs of your own, and the list goes on. To be quite honest, I'm still waiting to see a single dollar of profit from Georgia Bugs lol
Although crickets seems to be a pretty profitable market, but to breed crickets in that quantity you need space, time, manpower, and a lot of luck with the amount of competition in the business.
-Dave
Although crickets seems to be a pretty profitable market, but to breed crickets in that quantity you need space, time, manpower, and a lot of luck with the amount of competition in the business.
-Dave
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